Hmm, quick search on this Andy Ngo fellow... Seems like he's known for doxxing people and inciting death threats [1], generally palling around with the alt-right and more. I'm going to give it a...
Hmm, quick search on this Andy Ngo fellow...
Seems like he's known for doxxing people and inciting death threats [1], generally palling around with the alt-right and more. I'm going to give it a few days to see if this actually went down or if it's another Baked Alaska case. Either way, rocks, glass houses, stones etc.
That said, I'm guessing you're not here to argue in good faith if you're honestly going to claim Antifa are more violent than the neo-nazis.
It's pretty reprehensible to defend throwing a strong caustic like wet cement (PH 12-13) in someones face. There is nothing in that about him inciting deaththreats or doxing in the traditional...
It's pretty reprehensible to defend throwing a strong caustic like wet cement (PH 12-13) in someones face. There is nothing in that about him inciting deaththreats or doxing in the traditional sense. What he did is ironically the same thing you have just done.
People who bring quick drying cement to a rally are a "violent menace" regardless of their politics.
EDIT:Not going to try and argue with people who justify assaulting journalists and defend those bringing cement to use as a weapon at political rallys. Too far gone.
i think it's actually quite fortunate for dudes like andy ngo that it's only "cement", considering that half of the world waged a war to exterminate unconditionally the sort of bullshit ideology...
Exemplary
It's pretty reprehensible to defend throwing a strong caustic like wet cement (PH 12-13) in someones face.
i think it's actually quite fortunate for dudes like andy ngo that it's only "cement", considering that half of the world waged a war to exterminate unconditionally the sort of bullshit ideology these people promote, uphold, and ultimately want to put into practice not even 100 years ago. let's be clear: alt-righters and their lot are literally just nazis or white nationalists who know they can't be open about being nazis or white nationalists, and the correct response to these kinds of people is to ruin them completely and absolutely because at the end of the day these are the sorts of people whose ideology is fundamentally built on the murder or enslavement of everybody who is not an Aryan Superman or whatever flavor of bullshit "ideal male trope" they subscribe to.
moral equivocating on how the big bad ANTIFA is BULLYING alt-righters is exactly what they want you to do because by doing that, you are ensuring their legitimacy and the legitimacy of their ultimately genocidal, ultimately fascist ideology.
I'm giving it time because the alt-right is known to lie, make videos out of context and feign victimhood. Hence why I referred to the Baked Alaska case. There's no confirmation yet that he was...
I'm giving it time because the alt-right is known to lie, make videos out of context and feign victimhood. Hence why I referred to the Baked Alaska case. There's no confirmation yet that he was actually hit with quick drying cement. My research isn't the same as 'doxxing' because it's all part of his very public persona.
And his twitter account is filled with supporting groups like the Proud Boys, claiming hate crimes are hoaxes and seems to be the kind of person that thrives off of inciting shit. Also, that article I linked directly links him to doxxing other people, you should read it before making claims like that.
Edit: There has since been more details released about the event [1] which to me, looks like the Portland PD got duped. It's amazing how far people will go to defend the alt-right when they outright lie and deceive people every time they say they were assaulted.
just a little fun fact, now that i have some time: ngo was the popularizer of a conspiracy theory "study" which "proved" that antifa was in cahoots with mainstream journalists, which subsequently...
And his twitter account is filled with supporting groups like the Proud Boys, claiming hate crimes are hoaxes and seems to be the kind of person that thrives off of inciting shit. Also, that article I linked directly links him to doxxing other people, you should read it before making claims like that
this insistence on defending a far-right provocateur who writes for a publication that has advanced neo-scientific racism and eugenics and literally got 14 people on a kill list from a hate group...
No, he doesn't. There is never an excuse to escalate to violence. Period.
this insistence on defending a far-right provocateur who writes for a publication that has advanced neo-scientific racism and eugenics and literally got 14 people on a kill list from a hate group whose members have already committed several murders by advancing a conspiracy theory about antifascists being in cahoots with mainstream journalists because the mean antifa beat him up has really, really got to stop. ngo is not some innocent cinnamon roll who got beat up by the big mean antifa because antifa is a bully group; he has literally encouraged and been culpable in violence against leftists himself, to say nothing of again, the fact that he has already put people in serious danger with his advancing of a conspiracy theory.
he, like all of these dudes, will absolutely put the boot on your throat and crush your windpipe if you let him. you cannot just sing kumbayah to him and act like he'll come to: he hasn't, he won't, and by trying to moralize this and act like somehow he's the victim you will only ensure that he continues to advance and mainstream-ize the ideology of himself and his peers unabated.
As someone who was there - This wasn't an antifa rally, this was a Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer (alt right groups) rally that they insisted on doing the week before 4 of July when Portland is...
As someone who was there -
This wasn't an antifa rally, this was a Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer (alt right groups) rally that they insisted on doing the week before 4 of July when Portland is busy with 2 big festivals (and the famous naked bicycle ride!) and a ton of activity. They do this to ensure they get public attention and to maximize their provocation. The Proud Boys aren't even Oregonians - they bus over from neighboring Vancouver WA into the center of progressive Portland all to create a provocation and keep police at high alert.
Here is a comment by someone who witnessed it:
I saw this happen.
He charged into the middle and start talking shit while shoving a camera in peoples faces. He was clearly looking to instigate trouble. The whole incident was like 15 seconds long. Dude was escorted out of the parade by Antifa people in masks so the idea that this was sort of mass beating is silly. Dude was silly stringed and milkshaked, calm down.
I agree. He shouldn't of been punched. It really makes everyone look bad that it happened. But just a few seconds after the video ends he was half a block up the street getting aid. He was right next to a swat team with armed police.
Now, this is a bit of an understatement, for sure, but the guy has a history of trying to create provocation so he can get it in film (like the Cider Riot attack on May Day) and this is exactly his MO.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't want to leave this unanswered. Honestly, I am not sure why these kind of rallies that always turn into brawls are allowed to continue. I know the mayor has been trying to pass emergency ordinance that limits these rallies to specific locations and even that drew criticism. You are right that this is absurd and costly, (and actually did cost lives) and it is especially galling since the people coming to these alt-right rallies don't even pay taxes here - they are from Washington - and they say want to "conquer" Portland.
The truth is that Portland Police has a long and sordid history of treating Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys with kid's gloves. Recent transcript show that the police was aware of the alt right groups placing snipers on adjacent rooftops during one of their rallies as "emergency extraction team" and did nothing about it. Not only that, but they have allowed demonstrators carrying firearms and knowns violent felons to join the demonstration against city code. The police has been very friendly with them, with an officer in a neighboring county actually being a member of Patriot Prayer. All the while, this was the response of our chief of police:
"I tell you, 'Meet me after school at 3:00. Right? We're gonna fight'," Outlaw said, setting up the analogy to describe how she feels her critics are acting. "And I come with the intention to fight. And then you get mad because I kicked your butt. And then you go back and you wail off and whine and complain."
As someone who was there, can you explain to me why law enforcement is so passive with regards to these groups? It seems that allowing these events to take place creates a very high risk for...
As someone who was there, can you explain to me why law enforcement is so passive with regards to these groups? It seems that allowing these events to take place creates a very high risk for violence. Do we have to wait for someone to get murdered before saying they can't hold any more rallies? And how much money are they spending on enforcing them? Can't be cheap.
just a quick question by the way: do we have literally any evidence for the "concrete" claim besides right wing dudes with an axe to grind and an agenda to push or this weird, bullshit narrative...
just a quick question by the way: do we have literally any evidence for the "concrete" claim besides right wing dudes with an axe to grind and an agenda to push or this weird, bullshit narrative that antifascists really did anything in this incident beyond milkshaking ngo with, y'know, milkshakes and some other stuff they had in their hands? because i'm seeing nothing to demonstrate either count. the video of the incident shows exactly nothing but ngo getting owned because he charged into a group of antifascists like a dipshit--and you'll notice they only milkshake ngo here, amazingly, not any other person who is there--which is also attested to by other people. that same person says jack prosobiecjacked a photograph of his and used it to propagate a conspiracy that cups were filled with concrete. portland police say they've received "reports", but that's it. am i missing something? i feel like i'm not.
in fact, let me take this one step further: based off of time stamps, there seems to have been about an hour, give or take a bit, between when the milkshakes photo was taken by shane burley, and...
in fact, let me take this one step further: based off of time stamps, there seems to have been about an hour, give or take a bit, between when the milkshakes photo was taken by shane burley, and when the milkshaking incident was captured by jim ryan. if you're assuming that they were mixing quick-dry cement into their milkshakes here, given that the low bound of how fast that takes to set is around 15 minutes, and they had at least one hour between when we first know of the milkshakes and when they'd be mixing cement into them and when they were apparently thrown at ngo, either they got some unbelievably shitty fucking quick-dry cement, or this narrative is bullshit of the highest order. ngo is clearly getting splashed, and he doesn't have anywhere near the sorts of injuries you'd expect from a dude who is getting pelted with fucking cement cups.
Mostly they're going off this tweet by the Portland police. In the follow up report of arrests made during the event, they mention:
Mostly they're going off this tweet by the Portland police. In the follow up report of arrests made during the event, they mention:
There were reports of individuals throwing "milkshakes" with a substance mixed in that was similar to a quick drying cement. One subject was arrested for throwing a substance during the incident.
so, that would seem to suggest no confirmation at all then, just "reports" which i'm going to assume were based off of prosobiec's claim that are entirely misrepresentative.
so, that would seem to suggest no confirmation at all then, just "reports" which i'm going to assume were based off of prosobiec's claim that are entirely misrepresentative.
Before anyone says that the news is biased: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ While, yes, they are more favorable to the right wing, they have high factual reporting. I am...
I am posting this here, because I want to hear your opinions on this.
In my opinion, yet another reason for antifa to be added to the list of hate groups or whatever the US has. Along with invaliditating the notion that "it's just a milkshake" like so many people would love me to believe.
"They say there's violence on both sides, but only one wants genocide". Antifa have been around for decades. It's not fair to label it as any sort of organised group, more as a label. Some Antifa...
"They say there's violence on both sides, but only one wants genocide".
Antifa have been around for decades. It's not fair to label it as any sort of organised group, more as a label. Some Antifa groups are violent (like the very effective group in the 90s UK). Some groups are nonviolent. I think it's fair to criticise unjust violence in all cases, Antifa or not; it's unfair to criticise the entire label.
Sure. But not a word about Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer, whose member actually killed two people in a hate crime coming back from a rally last year, and had snipers positioned on top of a...
yet another reason for antifa to be added to the list of hate groups
Sure. But not a word about Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer, whose member actually killed two people in a hate crime coming back from a rally last year, and had snipers positioned on top of a building in their last rally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism
Which stated :
(...) which lasted until 2002. Since then, left-wing terrorism has been minor compared with other forms and is mostly carried out by insurgent groups in the developing world.
All but one (if I see correctly) of those groups was from before the 80s.
Which implies that your 'Antifa is more violent lately' statement is false
There's also this Guardian article that was posted the other day, which shows there is a global campaign of violence from the far right and their collaborators....
There's also this Guardian article that was posted the other day, which shows there is a global campaign of violence from the far right and their collaborators.
honestly, i think even fucking conservatives who aren't far-right alone have actually committed more terrorism in the past few years than all left-wingers combined. there was the pipebombing thing...
honestly, i think even fucking conservatives who aren't far-right alone have actually committed more terrorism in the past few years than all left-wingers combined. there was the pipebombing thing eight months ago where a trump supporter sent out bomb to 12 people and CNN, and not even 2 months later CNN was also sent a bomb threat (+ two previous threats of violence that year, also presumably done by right-wingers of some form). you could also debatably include kentucky kroger shooter who was obsessed with black-on-black crime, and probably the austin serial bomber, who described himself as a conservative.
Really? You're kidding, right? Anders Breivik? Brenton Tarrant? Thomas Mair? Etc.? That's just off the top of my head and I'm 3 double IPAs in. You're not trying very hard.
Really? You're kidding, right?
Anders Breivik?
Brenton Tarrant?
Thomas Mair?
Etc.?
That's just off the top of my head and I'm 3 double IPAs in. You're not trying very hard.
These people are cowards, just like the KKK. They only act tough while hiding behind masks so that they don't have to face consequences for their beliefs and actions.
These people are cowards, just like the KKK. They only act tough while hiding behind masks so that they don't have to face consequences for their beliefs and actions.
The far right have a history of taking photographs of those who take part in antifa rallies and targeting them. They're covering up for their own safety.
The far right have a history of taking photographs of those who take part in antifa rallies and targeting them. They're covering up for their own safety.
Hmm, quick search on this Andy Ngo fellow...
Seems like he's known for doxxing people and inciting death threats [1], generally palling around with the alt-right and more. I'm going to give it a few days to see if this actually went down or if it's another Baked Alaska case. Either way, rocks, glass houses, stones etc.
That said, I'm guessing you're not here to argue in good faith if you're honestly going to claim Antifa are more violent than the neo-nazis.
[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alt-right-antifa-death-threats-doxxing-quillette-a8966176.html
It's pretty reprehensible to defend throwing a strong caustic like wet cement (PH 12-13) in someones face. There is nothing in that about him inciting deaththreats or doxing in the traditional sense. What he did is ironically the same thing you have just done.
People who bring quick drying cement to a rally are a "violent menace" regardless of their politics.
There is video of it here on reddit
EDIT:Not going to try and argue with people who justify assaulting journalists and defend those bringing cement to use as a weapon at political rallys. Too far gone.
i think it's actually quite fortunate for dudes like andy ngo that it's only "cement", considering that half of the world waged a war to exterminate unconditionally the sort of bullshit ideology these people promote, uphold, and ultimately want to put into practice not even 100 years ago. let's be clear: alt-righters and their lot are literally just nazis or white nationalists who know they can't be open about being nazis or white nationalists, and the correct response to these kinds of people is to ruin them completely and absolutely because at the end of the day these are the sorts of people whose ideology is fundamentally built on the murder or enslavement of everybody who is not an Aryan Superman or whatever flavor of bullshit "ideal male trope" they subscribe to.
moral equivocating on how the big bad ANTIFA is BULLYING alt-righters is exactly what they want you to do because by doing that, you are ensuring their legitimacy and the legitimacy of their ultimately genocidal, ultimately fascist ideology.
I'm giving it time because the alt-right is known to lie, make videos out of context and feign victimhood. Hence why I referred to the Baked Alaska case. There's no confirmation yet that he was actually hit with quick drying cement. My research isn't the same as 'doxxing' because it's all part of his very public persona.
And his twitter account is filled with supporting groups like the Proud Boys, claiming hate crimes are hoaxes and seems to be the kind of person that thrives off of inciting shit. Also, that article I linked directly links him to doxxing other people, you should read it before making claims like that.
Edit: There has since been more details released about the event [1] which to me, looks like the Portland PD got duped. It's amazing how far people will go to defend the alt-right when they outright lie and deceive people every time they say they were assaulted.
[1] https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/status/1145492073224650753
just a little fun fact, now that i have some time: ngo was the popularizer of a conspiracy theory "study" which "proved" that antifa was in cahoots with mainstream journalists, which subsequently exploded across the far right media bubble and has reportedly gotten several people put on literal, actual kill lists by far-right paramilitaries like atomwaffen. dude really deserves to get his shit kicked in, lol.
No, he doesn't. There is never an excuse to escalate to violence. Period.
This isn't funny.
this insistence on defending a far-right provocateur who writes for a publication that has advanced neo-scientific racism and eugenics and literally got 14 people on a kill list from a hate group whose members have already committed several murders by advancing a conspiracy theory about antifascists being in cahoots with mainstream journalists because the mean antifa beat him up has really, really got to stop. ngo is not some innocent cinnamon roll who got beat up by the big mean antifa because antifa is a bully group; he has literally encouraged and been culpable in violence against leftists himself, to say nothing of again, the fact that he has already put people in serious danger with his advancing of a conspiracy theory.
he, like all of these dudes, will absolutely put the boot on your throat and crush your windpipe if you let him. you cannot just sing kumbayah to him and act like he'll come to: he hasn't, he won't, and by trying to moralize this and act like somehow he's the victim you will only ensure that he continues to advance and mainstream-ize the ideology of himself and his peers unabated.
And he posted pictures of his injuries.
This is not ok. Nobody deserves this kind of treatment.
And he's certainly going to milk this one for all it's worth. I'm struggling to feel sympathy for this guy.
As he should.
Again, nobody deserves this kind of treatment.
Leave that shit on reddit please. Address what they are actually arguing instead of making up whatever you feel like to dismiss them.
As someone who was there -
This wasn't an antifa rally, this was a Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer (alt right groups) rally that they insisted on doing the week before 4 of July when Portland is busy with 2 big festivals (and the famous naked bicycle ride!) and a ton of activity. They do this to ensure they get public attention and to maximize their provocation. The Proud Boys aren't even Oregonians - they bus over from neighboring Vancouver WA into the center of progressive Portland all to create a provocation and keep police at high alert.
Here is a comment by someone who witnessed it:
Now, this is a bit of an understatement, for sure, but the guy has a history of trying to create provocation so he can get it in film (like the Cider Riot attack on May Day) and this is exactly his MO.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't want to leave this unanswered. Honestly, I am not sure why these kind of rallies that always turn into brawls are allowed to continue. I know the mayor has been trying to pass emergency ordinance that limits these rallies to specific locations and even that drew criticism. You are right that this is absurd and costly, (and actually did cost lives) and it is especially galling since the people coming to these alt-right rallies don't even pay taxes here - they are from Washington - and they say want to "conquer" Portland.
The truth is that Portland Police has a long and sordid history of treating Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys with kid's gloves. Recent transcript show that the police was aware of the alt right groups placing snipers on adjacent rooftops during one of their rallies as "emergency extraction team" and did nothing about it. Not only that, but they have allowed demonstrators carrying firearms and knowns violent felons to join the demonstration against city code. The police has been very friendly with them, with an officer in a neighboring county actually being a member of Patriot Prayer. All the while, this was the response of our chief of police:
As someone who was there, can you explain to me why law enforcement is so passive with regards to these groups? It seems that allowing these events to take place creates a very high risk for violence. Do we have to wait for someone to get murdered before saying they can't hold any more rallies? And how much money are they spending on enforcing them? Can't be cheap.
just a quick question by the way: do we have literally any evidence for the "concrete" claim besides right wing dudes with an axe to grind and an agenda to push or this weird, bullshit narrative that antifascists really did anything in this incident beyond milkshaking ngo with, y'know, milkshakes and some other stuff they had in their hands? because i'm seeing nothing to demonstrate either count. the video of the incident shows exactly nothing but ngo getting owned because he charged into a group of antifascists like a dipshit--and you'll notice they only milkshake ngo here, amazingly, not any other person who is there--which is also attested to by other people. that same person says jack prosobiec jacked a photograph of his and used it to propagate a conspiracy that cups were filled with concrete. portland police say they've received "reports", but that's it. am i missing something? i feel like i'm not.
in fact, let me take this one step further: based off of time stamps, there seems to have been about an hour, give or take a bit, between when the milkshakes photo was taken by shane burley, and when the milkshaking incident was captured by jim ryan. if you're assuming that they were mixing quick-dry cement into their milkshakes here, given that the low bound of how fast that takes to set is around 15 minutes, and they had at least one hour between when we first know of the milkshakes and when they'd be mixing cement into them and when they were apparently thrown at ngo, either they got some unbelievably shitty fucking quick-dry cement, or this narrative is bullshit of the highest order. ngo is clearly getting splashed, and he doesn't have anywhere near the sorts of injuries you'd expect from a dude who is getting pelted with fucking cement cups.
Mostly they're going off this tweet by the Portland police. In the follow up report of arrests made during the event, they mention:
so, that would seem to suggest no confirmation at all then, just "reports" which i'm going to assume were based off of prosobiec's claim that are entirely misrepresentative.
Before anyone says that the news is biased: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-millennial/ While, yes, they are more favorable to the right wing, they have high factual reporting.
I am posting this here, because I want to hear your opinions on this.
In my opinion, yet another reason for antifa to be added to the list of hate groups or whatever the US has. Along with invaliditating the notion that "it's just a milkshake" like so many people would love me to believe.
"They say there's violence on both sides, but only one wants genocide".
Antifa have been around for decades. It's not fair to label it as any sort of organised group, more as a label. Some Antifa groups are violent (like the very effective group in the 90s UK). Some groups are nonviolent. I think it's fair to criticise unjust violence in all cases, Antifa or not; it's unfair to criticise the entire label.
Sure. But not a word about Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer, whose member actually killed two people in a hate crime coming back from a rally last year, and had snipers positioned on top of a building in their last rally.
Factual reporting is just one aspect. Confirmation bias is not measured, I notice, and that site employs a lot of it.
Yep - how to make a nazi rally worse? Have Antifa on the other side.
To me, antifa seems WAY more violent than any "nazi" rally has been lately.
They haven't killed anyone. The neo-nazis routinely murder people, including mass murder.
I find it hard to find a source on that. Got any?
It was pretty hard to find. I really had to dig. But when I typed in 'neo nazi killing' I found a lot of current news articles, as well as this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Underground_murders
Or this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism
There's of course this as well :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism
Which stated :
(...) which lasted until 2002. Since then, left-wing terrorism has been minor compared with other forms and is mostly carried out by insurgent groups in the developing world.
All but one (if I see correctly) of those groups was from before the 80s.
Which implies that your 'Antifa is more violent lately' statement is false
There's also this Guardian article that was posted the other day, which shows there is a global campaign of violence from the far right and their collaborators.
https://tildes.net/~news/f0z/german_far_right_group_used_police_data_to_compile_death_list_activists_linked_to_military_and
honestly, i think even fucking conservatives who aren't far-right alone have actually committed more terrorism in the past few years than all left-wingers combined. there was the pipebombing thing eight months ago where a trump supporter sent out bomb to 12 people and CNN, and not even 2 months later CNN was also sent a bomb threat (+ two previous threats of violence that year, also presumably done by right-wingers of some form). you could also debatably include kentucky kroger shooter who was obsessed with black-on-black crime, and probably the austin serial bomber, who described himself as a conservative.
Really? You're kidding, right?
Anders Breivik?
Brenton Tarrant?
Thomas Mair?
Etc.?
That's just off the top of my head and I'm 3 double IPAs in. You're not trying very hard.
Or for that matter, Jeremy Christian, who is a member of Patriot Prayer, the people who actually held the rally op mentions
Who killed Heather Heyer?
These people are cowards, just like the KKK. They only act tough while hiding behind masks so that they don't have to face consequences for their beliefs and actions.
The far right have a history of taking photographs of those who take part in antifa rallies and targeting them. They're covering up for their own safety.