I feel this one in my bones. I spent 9 calendar years in grad school (about 7 if you discount time I was away for various project). In the end I ground out a dissertation by sheer grit. There was...
Thank you to the friends who simply knew not to ask.
Sarah Tynan
I feel this one in my bones. I spent 9 calendar years in grad school (about 7 if you discount time I was away for various project). In the end I ground out a dissertation by sheer grit. There was no joy in it at all. For two years afterward, I would wake up early, realize I didn't need to think about my dissertation, feel an overwhelming wave of relief, and go back to sleep.
I'm sure other people have better experiences. But I wouldn't characterize mine or any of the ones I was adjacent to as positive.
I'm in my last "year or two" of my PhD program. There are definitely times I wake up in a panic thinking I have forgotten some important deadline. My experience so far as been relatively positive....
I'm in my last "year or two" of my PhD program. There are definitely times I wake up in a panic thinking I have forgotten some important deadline. My experience so far as been relatively positive. It has gotten better since the beginning, which was the height of the pandemic, fall 2020. But we'll see if it begins to decline as it seemingly drags on.
That last bit was something my advisor and several committee members told me. I found it a very helpful antidote to my normal perfectionism. (That, and reminding myself that it didn't have to be...
That last bit was something my advisor and several committee members told me. I found it a very helpful antidote to my normal perfectionism. (That, and reminding myself that it didn't have to be perfect, it just had to be good enough to get past my committee.)
While I was getting my BS and after I graduated, I did a lot of work in a few different labs. While I enjoyed the work itself a great deal and planned to pursue a PhD, getting to know so many grad...
While I was getting my BS and after I graduated, I did a lot of work in a few different labs. While I enjoyed the work itself a great deal and planned to pursue a PhD, getting to know so many grad students and their professors frightened me. The PhD students were all the most stressed and miserable people I had ever met in my life, and their major professors seemed to spend most of their time hunting down funding for their students rather than doing science.
The death knell for my PhD plans was overhearing a conversation between some professors about one of them: he had married a woman who had a PhD in English, rather than a PhD in the biological sciences, and he was bitter about how much this had held back his career. They were all agreeing that it is simply no longer tenable to marry someone outside your field of expertise because you are competing with married couples who collaborate.
Shortly after that, the '08 financial crisis happened. Funding disappeared overnight and I lost my job. I don't even want to think about what happened to the grad students and their grant-hunting professors, when so many of them already felt to me like they were on the brink.
W.t.f. that is terrible. Not on him, just the fact that the situation demands that sort of thinking. Glad I stopped at a masters like Howard Wolowitz 😅
he was bitter about how much this had held back his career. They were all agreeing that it is simply no longer tenable to marry someone outside your field of expertise because you are competing with married couples who collaborate.
W.t.f. that is terrible. Not on him, just the fact that the situation demands that sort of thinking. Glad I stopped at a masters like Howard Wolowitz 😅
So much this. When I was in undergrad, there was a professor who used his grad students to run a sophomore level class that everyone in the major had to take. It was a good class, well-run. At the...
their major professors seemed to spend most of their time hunting down funding for their students rather than doing science.
So much this.
When I was in undergrad, there was a professor who used his grad students to run a sophomore level class that everyone in the major had to take. It was a good class, well-run. At the end of the semester, he invited everyone who got an A in any section (surprisingly few, in retrospect) to lunch at the faculty club. He basically said, "Now I know who you are, so if you need anything or just want to talk, feel free to come see me." I ended up doing undergrad research with him my last two semesters, for which I got paid hourly and he paid my tuition.
Thinking it would be amazing to be able to do that was basically why I went to grad school. But only much later (after I finished my PhD) did I learn that his position was an endowed chair, so he basically had unlimited funding he didn't without having to chase it.
The other big nail in the coffin was how bitter the politics in the department were. The best summary I ever heard was, "the arguments are so intense because the stakes are so small." Plus, in a job, if you don't get along with someone, one of you will eventually leave or get promoted. Tenured faculty pretty much don't leave until they die. Once I saw all that, I was out.
My time in grad school was both the best and worst time of my life. I completed in just about 6 years, though in my field of study 7-8 is typical. I couldn't imagine spending another year or two...
My time in grad school was both the best and worst time of my life. I completed in just about 6 years, though in my field of study 7-8 is typical. I couldn't imagine spending another year or two but also know that another year or so would have really put me in an excellent position results-wise. I don't know what my mental state would have been, it was rough there at the end. I have many regrets, I have formative experiences, I both yearn to be back there and grateful I'm not.
Similar to you I feel like I made it through on grit. I wasn't the brightest or the hardest working. I'm kind of shocked at the legs my work has had after my exit. In the moment it felt like garbage, I didn't know how it could be valuable and maybe I got a "pity PhD." In retrospect I did well and I'm proud of what I accomplished.
My wife dedicated her thesis to me while we were dating. A scientific thesis paper which she probably expected I would never read, but I did and she laughed. She also used it as an opportunity to...
My wife dedicated her thesis to me while we were dating. A scientific thesis paper which she probably expected I would never read, but I did and she laughed. She also used it as an opportunity to poke fun at me, which warmed my heart in a way that I should remind her about here some 15 years later. Thanks for the inspiration.
The timing of reading this article couldn't be more serendipitous. My final revisions and formatting for my dissertation were approved just a couple days ago and it's now officially off my plate....
The timing of reading this article couldn't be more serendipitous. My final revisions and formatting for my dissertation were approved just a couple days ago and it's now officially off my plate. To echo a sentiment from Dr. John Dawson in the article, "I'm done." This enormous endeavor is finally finished and while I spent nearly 8 years trying to answer some specific scientific questions, I relatively spent more time these last few months thinking about the acknowledgements and who all to thank. Same as a child, it takes a village to train a Ph.D. student. At a certain point I had to cut myself off because there were so many people that had bettered my life, even in small ways, that made the experience easier to get through.
One key thing I take away from this article, is that as scientists we want to express ourselves in many ways beyond the science that we do. Science is inherently a creative expression, but it is very constrained in the ways that you can express yourself. I think it's important for people, scientists included, to find a medium that feels the most appropriate as a creative outlet.
I don't want to copy and paste that part of my dissertation, since that would identify me, but I did thank two different podcasts (not even their creators, just the podcasts by name) in my...
Now, there are no limits to who, or what, you can thank.
I don't want to copy and paste that part of my dissertation, since that would identify me, but I did thank two different podcasts (not even their creators, just the podcasts by name) in my acknowledgments.
Also, agreed with one of the other quoted authors: it was my favorite part to write of the entire thing. Including results (read: vindication that my ridiculous ideas about such a small corner of the universe were actually borne out in the data ... or at least we think so).
Regarding your last sentence: nothing has taught me to be more unsure of what we know than conducting science. I am frankly astounded at some people's confidence with the claims they make.
Regarding your last sentence: nothing has taught me to be more unsure of what we know than conducting science. I am frankly astounded at some people's confidence with the claims they make.
I feel this one in my bones. I spent 9 calendar years in grad school (about 7 if you discount time I was away for various project). In the end I ground out a dissertation by sheer grit. There was no joy in it at all. For two years afterward, I would wake up early, realize I didn't need to think about my dissertation, feel an overwhelming wave of relief, and go back to sleep.
I'm sure other people have better experiences. But I wouldn't characterize mine or any of the ones I was adjacent to as positive.
I'm in my last "year or two" of my PhD program. There are definitely times I wake up in a panic thinking I have forgotten some important deadline. My experience so far as been relatively positive. It has gotten better since the beginning, which was the height of the pandemic, fall 2020. But we'll see if it begins to decline as it seemingly drags on.
Good luck! I hope it is a year and not the "or two" for you.
Remember that the best thesis is a completed thesis.
That last bit was something my advisor and several committee members told me. I found it a very helpful antidote to my normal perfectionism. (That, and reminding myself that it didn't have to be perfect, it just had to be good enough to get past my committee.)
Good luck on the tail end. I just finished mine and while it was a lot of work in the end, it felt better than the middle.
While I was getting my BS and after I graduated, I did a lot of work in a few different labs. While I enjoyed the work itself a great deal and planned to pursue a PhD, getting to know so many grad students and their professors frightened me. The PhD students were all the most stressed and miserable people I had ever met in my life, and their major professors seemed to spend most of their time hunting down funding for their students rather than doing science.
The death knell for my PhD plans was overhearing a conversation between some professors about one of them: he had married a woman who had a PhD in English, rather than a PhD in the biological sciences, and he was bitter about how much this had held back his career. They were all agreeing that it is simply no longer tenable to marry someone outside your field of expertise because you are competing with married couples who collaborate.
Shortly after that, the '08 financial crisis happened. Funding disappeared overnight and I lost my job. I don't even want to think about what happened to the grad students and their grant-hunting professors, when so many of them already felt to me like they were on the brink.
W.t.f. that is terrible. Not on him, just the fact that the situation demands that sort of thinking. Glad I stopped at a masters like Howard Wolowitz 😅
So much this.
When I was in undergrad, there was a professor who used his grad students to run a sophomore level class that everyone in the major had to take. It was a good class, well-run. At the end of the semester, he invited everyone who got an A in any section (surprisingly few, in retrospect) to lunch at the faculty club. He basically said, "Now I know who you are, so if you need anything or just want to talk, feel free to come see me." I ended up doing undergrad research with him my last two semesters, for which I got paid hourly and he paid my tuition.
Thinking it would be amazing to be able to do that was basically why I went to grad school. But only much later (after I finished my PhD) did I learn that his position was an endowed chair, so he basically had unlimited funding he didn't without having to chase it.
The other big nail in the coffin was how bitter the politics in the department were. The best summary I ever heard was, "the arguments are so intense because the stakes are so small." Plus, in a job, if you don't get along with someone, one of you will eventually leave or get promoted. Tenured faculty pretty much don't leave until they die. Once I saw all that, I was out.
My time in grad school was both the best and worst time of my life. I completed in just about 6 years, though in my field of study 7-8 is typical. I couldn't imagine spending another year or two but also know that another year or so would have really put me in an excellent position results-wise. I don't know what my mental state would have been, it was rough there at the end. I have many regrets, I have formative experiences, I both yearn to be back there and grateful I'm not.
Similar to you I feel like I made it through on grit. I wasn't the brightest or the hardest working. I'm kind of shocked at the legs my work has had after my exit. In the moment it felt like garbage, I didn't know how it could be valuable and maybe I got a "pity PhD." In retrospect I did well and I'm proud of what I accomplished.
My wife dedicated her thesis to me while we were dating. A scientific thesis paper which she probably expected I would never read, but I did and she laughed. She also used it as an opportunity to poke fun at me, which warmed my heart in a way that I should remind her about here some 15 years later. Thanks for the inspiration.
The timing of reading this article couldn't be more serendipitous. My final revisions and formatting for my dissertation were approved just a couple days ago and it's now officially off my plate. To echo a sentiment from Dr. John Dawson in the article, "I'm done." This enormous endeavor is finally finished and while I spent nearly 8 years trying to answer some specific scientific questions, I relatively spent more time these last few months thinking about the acknowledgements and who all to thank. Same as a child, it takes a village to train a Ph.D. student. At a certain point I had to cut myself off because there were so many people that had bettered my life, even in small ways, that made the experience easier to get through.
One key thing I take away from this article, is that as scientists we want to express ourselves in many ways beyond the science that we do. Science is inherently a creative expression, but it is very constrained in the ways that you can express yourself. I think it's important for people, scientists included, to find a medium that feels the most appropriate as a creative outlet.
I don't want to copy and paste that part of my dissertation, since that would identify me, but I did thank two different podcasts (not even their creators, just the podcasts by name) in my acknowledgments.
Also, agreed with one of the other quoted authors: it was my favorite part to write of the entire thing. Including results (read: vindication that my ridiculous ideas about such a small corner of the universe were actually borne out in the data ... or at least we think so).
Regarding your last sentence: nothing has taught me to be more unsure of what we know than conducting science. I am frankly astounded at some people's confidence with the claims they make.