29 votes

Astrobotic Technology says its Moon landing attempt is in jeopardy because of an engine problem

10 comments

  1. [8]
    updawg
    Link
    Well I had a comment typed out but I guess I waited too long and my browser reloaded and I lost it...stupid dumb browser... Anyway, the Navajo Nation is apparently officially upset because the...

    Well I had a comment typed out but I guess I waited too long and my browser reloaded and I lost it...stupid dumb browser...

    Anyway, the Navajo Nation is apparently officially upset because the remains that they were going to land on the moon would have desecrated it. I had an explanation for my thoughts, including that I think trying to honor cultures, traditions, and beliefs is a good thing, but in this case, I don't think they should get to claim the entire moon just because some people hundreds of years ago, who had no idea what the moon really was, thought it was neat enough to consider holy in some way.

    Thoughts?

    17 votes
    1. [5]
      ColorUserPro
      Link Parent
      Maybe we put the ashes on the dark side of the moon? jk, the truth behind all sacred sites, no matter how large, is generally 'how well can you enforce your position.' Since there is no tangible...

      Maybe we put the ashes on the dark side of the moon?

      jk, the truth behind all sacred sites, no matter how large, is generally 'how well can you enforce your position.' Since there is no tangible way the Navajo can prevent someone in China from depositing ashes of their choice on the moon, it's a courtesy I'd be happy to extend were I commanding a lunar landing, but I don't think they have a leg to stand on in this matter. It can't just be their moon.

      11 votes
      1. [4]
        spinoza-the-jedi
        Link Parent
        I’m inclined to agree. I’m all for respecting local beliefs and preserving important sites as much as possible. But we’re talking about a celestial body, here. I feel for them. Native American...

        I’m inclined to agree. I’m all for respecting local beliefs and preserving important sites as much as possible. But we’re talking about a celestial body, here. I feel for them. Native American nations and tribes have been dealt a terrible hand time and again. The U.S. is not an innocent bystander, either.

        But in this particular case, I struggle to care. Now if you want to talk about the massive waste of resources and money to send a rich person’s remains to the moon…then you might have my attention.

        16 votes
        1. [2]
          gpl
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I think there will come a day, probably not too far down the line, where we all wished we paid attention to these issues and took their fundamental elements seriously. This is very much in line...

          I think there will come a day, probably not too far down the line, where we all wished we paid attention to these issues and took their fundamental elements seriously. This is very much in line with issues that have come up before re: satellite constellations and their pollution of the dark night sky. We NEED to have better regulation of who and what gets to be sent into space, preferably at the international scale, but lacking that then at whatever scale we are able. The current regulatory framework in the US has simply not caught up to the explosion in private spacefaring companies, and so we have ended up in the situation we are in, where there are or shortly will be environmental effects or to worry about. Aside from the environmental effects, I personally don't want to have a situation where satellite constellations outshine natural ones even by naked eye, which could be the case in the future.

          Moving away from the topic of satellite constellations and returning to the moon, I think this is an invitation to think about these issues more broadly than "Should the Navajo Nation get to claim the entire moon", as @updawg and @ColorUserPro have understandably framed it, but rather "How do we as a society want to manage space as an environment?". In my opinion, space is an environment, though we typically don't think about it as such1. This is something we want to consider now, before it is too late, and with the proliferation of private ventures targeting LEO and the moon and everywhere in between that might not be so far in the future. I agree that it does not make sense for a single Native American tribe to somehow get priority on these issues, but at the same time I reject the notion that simply having enough money or the capability to physically place an object on the moon should give that priority, which is essentially the current state of affairs. For those interested, I recommend the short book Space Forces by Fred Scharmen which considers issues like these and others.

          1 Incidentally, this is a topic I have done a 180 on since using Tildes, thanks in part to a user who I cannot remember engaging me in a thoughtful way.

          13 votes
          1. ColorUserPro
            Link Parent
            Unfortunately, as much as I admire the composition of your statement, one only has to look at the oceans and the land to see that those who have the agency to act upon the resources we have will...

            Unfortunately, as much as I admire the composition of your statement, one only has to look at the oceans and the land to see that those who have the agency to act upon the resources we have will not heed those who do not. Every day I am taught a lesson in objective power by the culminated effects, now and to come, of the actions of my forefathers. The price may be polluted oceans, light-polluted skies, and toxic air, but these prices are affordable to those who would make the decision to leave the environment like so.

            These people also have the means to spread human ashes on the moon.

            6 votes
        2. UniquelyGeneric
          Link Parent
          I’m just weirded out that these remains were even included in the first place. The carbon in ashes are so far removed from these people it seems a purely symbolic endeavor to stroke the egos of...

          I’m just weirded out that these remains were even included in the first place.

          The carbon in ashes are so far removed from these people it seems a purely symbolic endeavor to stroke the egos of dead people. Sending personal objects to be enshrined in a time-capsule would be an improvement in my eyes, and even that feels like a waste of resources.

          Apparently they took 66 people’s remains, which cost $13,000 per person. That’s nowhere close to being a viable funding source for the $100 million launch, so the price tag is just there to transfer a feeling a prestige.

          Space flight was at one point the pinnacle of humanity’s achievements, and these cremated remains of inflated egos cheapen the whole concept. The CEO of Celestis’ response that “no one owns the moon” is such a perfect encapsulation of how privatization of space is already heralding a tragedy of the commons. It’s bad enough we wrecked our own planet, now I can’t even hold out hope for space itself.

          9 votes
    2. Minty
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      No one gets to claim the entire Moon, and religious reasons are absolutely not an exception. Which is also why no one should litter on the Moon unless necessary, like for survival. Gene already...

      No one gets to claim the entire Moon, and religious reasons are absolutely not an exception. Which is also why no one should litter on the Moon unless necessary, like for survival. Gene already had a space burial, so this isn't even to honor his wishes, although I guess it's big enough of a symbol for it to be debatable. But rich randos with huge egos? Toy cars? A chip from Mt Everest? Just no.

      5 votes
    3. chocobean
      Link Parent
      I'm not saying I agree they get to claim the entire moon. But let's step back in history a bit and see how this is once again the same "meanness" as always It was their continent and then jerkwads...

      I'm not saying I agree they get to claim the entire moon.

      But let's step back in history a bit and see how this is once again the same "meanness" as always

      It was their continent and then jerkwads came over and said "you ain't using all of it let us use some." Okay cool. It's so huge and vast surely that's fair. Then jerkwads tell them it's all ours now and we'll ruin it for all future generations tough luck.

      They don't get to claim the moon, but neither does one company. Let's say it's neutral territory. Where does the right to throw garbage onto neutral territory come from? It's littering. What if we later find out moon dust gets us faster than light travel and builds portals, but a huge swath of it was already polluted by jerkwads?

      And things don't need a utilitarian reason to be maintained. Even if the moon is just a clean place that the Navajo Nation can point to and say, this whole world is filled with jerkwads, at least part of our heritage still has that up there, kept pure and undefiled and away from bloodshed and greed.

      Maybe they don't want to stop all launches, but maybe they just wanted a chance to talk it over, have their land claims be taken seriously for once.

      5 votes
  2. [2]
    chocobean
    Link
    So is it going to fail to get to the moon, or will it fail to "soft land"?

    So is it going to fail to get to the moon, or will it fail to "soft land"?

    4 votes
    1. updawg
      Link Parent
      Sounds like it won't have any power to enter lunar orbit.

      Sounds like it won't have any power to enter lunar orbit.

      3 votes