Even if its so deep, liquid water on Mars is such a huge thing that it changes the calculus of life in the universe pretty damn drastically. We knew of Europa and other icy moons (probably) having...
Even if its so deep, liquid water on Mars is such a huge thing that it changes the calculus of life in the universe pretty damn drastically. We knew of Europa and other icy moons (probably) having oceans deep down but not on Mars.
While it's unlikely I'll see an actual, physical research of this water in my life, man.
Questions while I was reading this article: So can we use this water to help with terraforming? -- unlikely: as the article said, "Even on Earth, drilling a hole a kilometer deep is a challenge."...
Questions while I was reading this article:
So can we use this water to help with terraforming? -- unlikely: as the article said, "Even on Earth, drilling a hole a kilometer deep is a challenge." Then a second thought, suppose we're not drilling with intent to pump water 11-20km up to the surface colonies, but supposed we want to dig 11 km down and build right there. In contrast, on our planet with handy magnetic field, breathable oxygen, far above 0 temps and ready source of water for washing etc, the deepest quarry we have is only 1km down, and the amount of tailings that thing generated over the last 100 years is absolutely massive. It has had several tailing dam failures and other slippages and in general is a health hazard for all. We're not gonna be able to build a colony 10km+ down.
What if we drill a ~200m deep hole, insert nuke blast a heck of a lot of rock away into space, repeat, to build this colony closer to Mars' water?
Skimming through underground nuclear weapons testing, it seems the rock around the cavity is going to be all kinds of beaten up and radioactivity aside, probably not super stable to build at the bottom of a 11km shaft.....
And that's all, once again, going to be a very cold, no atmosphere, no magnetic field planet. It'll be far easier to live in inland Antarctica than Mars. There really is no place like home.
So now what. What does this discovery actually do for space colony or lifeform seeking? Not much yet, but I'm pretty excited about the future of how to find out what's underneath earth, about how to find life on, say, asteroids with less deeply buried water.
Aside from the really big problems of structural integrity and ventilation, one of the other big reasons we can't go further down is because it quickly gets too hot for humans to work. Mars isn't...
Aside from the really big problems of structural integrity and ventilation, one of the other big reasons we can't go further down is because it quickly gets too hot for humans to work. Mars isn't as active as earth, but it does still have a mantle.
We should:
Expect to be able to go much deeper before heat becomes an issue
Also expect for temperatures to rise gradually during descent and there to be a zone of perfectly habitable temperatures
Geothermal heat? Could that be used to passively circulate with surface temps for a comfy habitat? More I read about other planets the more I appreciate ours.....
Geothermal heat? Could that be used to passively circulate with surface temps for a comfy habitat?
More I read about other planets the more I appreciate ours.....
There is reason why, despite it not being a purely scientific principle or testable hypothesis the Anthropic principle is still often discussed with these kind of topics. We don't know how likely...
More I read about other planets the more I appreciate ours.....
We don't know how likely it is for an earth like planet to form. All estimates are really just fancy guesses. I could see us eventually settling on Mars and having permanent bases on the Moon, but the only place on our surface that might be more difficult on our home is on active volcanoes and the deepest trenches in the ocean.
The universe is extremely hostile for life. Earth is an amazing exception.
Geothermal heat? Could that be used to passively circulate with surface temps for a comfy habitat?
Depends on a couple of factors, but I doubt it. You need to pump up heat constantly and in the mean time heat will flow out of the pipes. One quick search mentions a 25 degrees Celcius/km temperature gradient downwards(which might be wrong, but it sounds reasonable enough to roll with it for now). Which is not much. Especially since the surface of Mars is hella cold. If there is a certain heat spot it might be possible, but then the energy used to pump the water might be better of directly used to heat up any base.
It’s deep. But is saw someone mention that the gravity is less on Mars, so the level of compaction and rock density might also be less making it easier to drill into. So I wonder if it’s actually...
It’s deep. But is saw someone mention that the gravity is less on Mars, so the level of compaction and rock density might also be less making it easier to drill into. So I wonder if it’s actually not as hard as it sounds since we’re comparing it to drilling for stuff that deep on earth?
I'm not really convinced that the level of compaction and rock density would necessarily be less due to there being less gravity... moreover, the sheer remoteness of Mars relative to us humans...
I'm not really convinced that the level of compaction and rock density would necessarily be less due to there being less gravity... moreover, the sheer remoteness of Mars relative to us humans more than makes up for any advantage, as it's an absolutely HUGE factor in making the task more difficult.
I'm not sure if we even know if it's easier. We've never drilled apart from small surface operations on the Moon or Mars. There's also the lack of oxygen, which affects materials heavily, and...
I'm not sure if we even know if it's easier. We've never drilled apart from small surface operations on the Moon or Mars. There's also the lack of oxygen, which affects materials heavily, and might have industrial applications in outer space, or a potential lunar or martian settlement. I don't think anyone can really say with confidence whether it'd make it easier, harder, or just different when you go that deep.
I didn't have a concept of how deep 11-20km is either, because on the surface we routinely walk/bike that distance so easily. Then I saw an XKCD what if, talking about dumping earth's water on...
I didn't have a concept of how deep 11-20km is either, because on the surface we routinely walk/bike that distance so easily. Then I saw an XKCD what if, talking about dumping earth's water on Mars, and it mentioned our tallest mountain peak.
Mars has always been one of my least favourite planets. It has had every opportunity to support life throughout the eons but has scorned the proposition at every turn. I’ve just about had it with...
Mars has always been one of my least favourite planets. It has had every opportunity to support life throughout the eons but has scorned the proposition at every turn. I’ve just about had it with that rock.
Even if its so deep, liquid water on Mars is such a huge thing that it changes the calculus of life in the universe pretty damn drastically. We knew of Europa and other icy moons (probably) having oceans deep down but not on Mars.
While it's unlikely I'll see an actual, physical research of this water in my life, man.
Questions while I was reading this article:
So can we use this water to help with terraforming? -- unlikely: as the article said, "Even on Earth, drilling a hole a kilometer deep is a challenge." Then a second thought, suppose we're not drilling with intent to pump water 11-20km up to the surface colonies, but supposed we want to dig 11 km down and build right there. In contrast, on our planet with handy magnetic field, breathable oxygen, far above 0 temps and ready source of water for washing etc, the deepest quarry we have is only 1km down, and the amount of tailings that thing generated over the last 100 years is absolutely massive. It has had several tailing dam failures and other slippages and in general is a health hazard for all. We're not gonna be able to build a colony 10km+ down.
What if we drill a ~200m deep hole, insert nuke blast a heck of a lot of rock away into space, repeat, to build this colony closer to Mars' water?
Skimming through underground nuclear weapons testing, it seems the rock around the cavity is going to be all kinds of beaten up and radioactivity aside, probably not super stable to build at the bottom of a 11km shaft.....
And that's all, once again, going to be a very cold, no atmosphere, no magnetic field planet. It'll be far easier to live in inland Antarctica than Mars. There really is no place like home.
So now what. What does this discovery actually do for space colony or lifeform seeking? Not much yet, but I'm pretty excited about the future of how to find out what's underneath earth, about how to find life on, say, asteroids with less deeply buried water.
Aside from the really big problems of structural integrity and ventilation, one of the other big reasons we can't go further down is because it quickly gets too hot for humans to work. Mars isn't as active as earth, but it does still have a mantle.
We should:
Expect to be able to go much deeper before heat becomes an issue
Also expect for temperatures to rise gradually during descent and there to be a zone of perfectly habitable temperatures
Geothermal heat? Could that be used to passively circulate with surface temps for a comfy habitat?
More I read about other planets the more I appreciate ours.....
There is reason why, despite it not being a purely scientific principle or testable hypothesis the Anthropic principle is still often discussed with these kind of topics.
We don't know how likely it is for an earth like planet to form. All estimates are really just fancy guesses. I could see us eventually settling on Mars and having permanent bases on the Moon, but the only place on our surface that might be more difficult on our home is on active volcanoes and the deepest trenches in the ocean.
The universe is extremely hostile for life. Earth is an amazing exception.
Depends on a couple of factors, but I doubt it. You need to pump up heat constantly and in the mean time heat will flow out of the pipes. One quick search mentions a 25 degrees Celcius/km temperature gradient downwards(which might be wrong, but it sounds reasonable enough to roll with it for now). Which is not much. Especially since the surface of Mars is hella cold. If there is a certain heat spot it might be possible, but then the energy used to pump the water might be better of directly used to heat up any base.
It’s deep. But is saw someone mention that the gravity is less on Mars, so the level of compaction and rock density might also be less making it easier to drill into. So I wonder if it’s actually not as hard as it sounds since we’re comparing it to drilling for stuff that deep on earth?
I'm not really convinced that the level of compaction and rock density would necessarily be less due to there being less gravity... moreover, the sheer remoteness of Mars relative to us humans more than makes up for any advantage, as it's an absolutely HUGE factor in making the task more difficult.
I'm not sure if we even know if it's easier. We've never drilled apart from small surface operations on the Moon or Mars. There's also the lack of oxygen, which affects materials heavily, and might have industrial applications in outer space, or a potential lunar or martian settlement. I don't think anyone can really say with confidence whether it'd make it easier, harder, or just different when you go that deep.
I didn't have a concept of how deep 11-20km is either, because on the surface we routinely walk/bike that distance so easily. Then I saw an XKCD what if, talking about dumping earth's water on Mars, and it mentioned our tallest mountain peak.
Depth of water in Mars: 11-20km
Height of Mount Everest: 8.8km
Depth of our deepest open pit mine: 1.2km.
So basically we'll need to be able to dig AND displace more than the volume of Everest / Himalayas to get to it.
Mars has always been one of my least favourite planets. It has had every opportunity to support life throughout the eons but has scorned the proposition at every turn. I’ve just about had it with that rock.