38 votes

Starship Launch 5 successfully caught by launch tower

18 comments

  1. [15]
    pete_the_paper_boat
    Link
    Amazing to see it worked on the first attempt. They're getting unreasonably good at this

    Amazing to see it worked on the first attempt. They're getting unreasonably good at this

    24 votes
    1. [14]
      babypuncher
      Link Parent
      And all they had to do to make it happen was illegally dump tens of thousands of gallons of toxic waste into the environment!
      17 votes
      1. [12]
        OBLIVIATER
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        "toxic waste" seems like a bit of an exaggeration for what the article calls: "30k ~ gallons of industrial wastewater with dissolved solids including potentially toxic chemicals like zinc and...

        "toxic waste" seems like a bit of an exaggeration for what the article calls: "30k ~ gallons of industrial wastewater with dissolved solids including potentially toxic chemicals like zinc and hexavalent chromium"

        Probably not even remotely close to the worst thing thats getting dumped by industry into the environment.

        17 votes
        1. [10]
          creesch
          Link Parent
          I think it is fine to add some nuance. I do think you are overshooting in your correction here, almost dismissing it as if it is nothing. Which it is not. I also don't think saying things like...

          I think it is fine to add some nuance. I do think you are overshooting in your correction here, almost dismissing it as if it is nothing. Which it is not.

          I also don't think saying things like this is productive in the slightest:

          Probably not even remotely close to the worst thing thats getting dumped by industry into the environment.

          In fact, I'd go as far as calling this a harmful attitude, as there always will be some entity that does worse shit. Which doesn't matter, harmful stuff should be called out no matter what.

          15 votes
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            For what it’s worth, here is how SpaceX describes it: Though, they neglected to say anything about what happens to the water after it comes into contact with rocket exhaust. This is getting too...

            For what it’s worth, here is how SpaceX describes it:

            The water-cooled steel flame deflector does not spray pollutants into the surrounding environment. Again, it uses literal drinking water. Outflow water has been sampled after every use of the system and consistently shows negligible traces of any contaminants, and specifically, that all levels have remained below standards for all state permits that would authorize discharge. TCEQ, the FAA, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service evaluated the use of the system prior to its initial use, and during tests and launch, and determined it would not cause environmental harm.

            When the EPA issued its Administrative Order in March 2024, it was done before seeking a basic understanding of the facts of the water-cooled steel flame deflector’s operation or acknowledgement that we were operating under the Texas Multi-Sector General Permit. After meeting with the EPA—during which the EPA stated their intent was not to stop testing, preparation, or launch operations—it was decided that SpaceX should apply for an individual discharge permit. Despite our previous permitting, which was done in coordination with TCEQ, and our operation having little to nothing in common with industrial waste discharges covered by individual permits, we applied for an individual permit in July 2024.

            The subsequent fines levied on SpaceX by TCEQ and the EPA are entirely tied to disagreements over paperwork. We chose to settle so that we can focus our energy on completing the missions and commitments that we have made to the U.S. government, commercial customers, and ourselves. Paying fines is extremely disappointing when we fundamentally disagree with the allegations, and we are supported by the fact that EPA has agreed that nothing about the operation of our flame deflector will need to change. Only the name of the permit has changed.

            Though, they neglected to say anything about what happens to the water after it comes into contact with rocket exhaust.

            This is getting too deep in the weeds for me to have an informed opinion about. I just don’t know if a wastewater treatment plant is needed. The EPA doesn’t seem to think so, though?

            27 votes
          2. [6]
            OBLIVIATER
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            The article states NASA has a similar process, they simply test the water to ensure it's safe before discharging it into a retention pond and eventually the environment. In fact the expert NPR...

            The article states NASA has a similar process, they simply test the water to ensure it's safe before discharging it into a retention pond and eventually the environment. In fact the expert NPR quotes in the article simply says that SpaceX needs a wastewater permit if it wants to be doing this kind of discharge which is absolutely fair; but just goes to further show that calling it toxic waste is hyperbolic at best and the reason why I compared it to literally any of the other companies in America who are dumping millions of gallons of actual toxic waste into the environment without any public outcry.

            I'm honestly just sick of every single thing SpaceX does being hyper-criticized because it's owner is a egotistical hypocritical toolbag. (Turns out most billionaires are, they just don't tweet about it.) SpaceX is legitimately almost single-handedly advancing space technology by decades.

            You know what's also terrible for the environment? Sending up dozens of single use disposable rockets into the atmosphere to burn up in re-entry. If we're going to be doing Space stuff, this is certainly the lesser of the two evils.

            24 votes
            1. [2]
              fraughtGYRE
              Link Parent
              Put it perfectly. Every thread on SpaceX devolves into vicious attacks that may or may not be warranted, but certainly aren't appropriate in a conversation celebrating and discussing an important...

              I'm honestly just sick of every single thing SpaceX does being hyper-criticized because it's owner is a egotistical hypocritical toolbag. (Turns out most billionaires are, they just don't tweet about it.) SpaceX is legitimately almost single-handedly advancing space technology by decades.

              Put it perfectly. Every thread on SpaceX devolves into vicious attacks that may or may not be warranted, but certainly aren't appropriate in a conversation celebrating and discussing an important achievement.

              In my opinion, that's what the "Post a new topic" button is for.

              18 votes
              1. sparkle
                Link Parent
                It would help if most media outlets wouldn't title every SpaceX article with "Elon Musk's SpaceX does XYZ". Not this one in particular but a large portion do. I've even seen some (typically more...

                It would help if most media outlets wouldn't title every SpaceX article with "Elon Musk's SpaceX does XYZ". Not this one in particular but a large portion do. I've even seen some (typically more clickbaity outlets) completely omit "SpaceX" and just state "Elon Musk does XYZ" as though he is personally inventing the craft or spacesuits.

                I know it's exactly because of the audience interaction with a vitriolic topic which leads to more ad revenue, but for crying out loud, separate the man from the product.

            2. [3]
              creesch
              Link Parent
              That's all valid, like I said, I don't mind adding nuance or correcting things. I still think you overshot, probably based out of your frustration, which can have the opposite effect. In fact, it...

              That's all valid, like I said, I don't mind adding nuance or correcting things. I still think you overshot, probably based out of your frustration, which can have the opposite effect. In fact, it had the opposite effect on me. In fact I still think you are doing so if I am being honest.

              Yes, it is bad that other companies are dumping all sorts of waste without outcry. That doesn't mean that any potential effect of what spaceX is doing shouldn't be taken seriously.

              Also I don't think everything SpaceX is being hypercriticized, only because of their CEO.

              And

              SpaceX is legitimately almost single-handedly advancing space technology by decades.

              Sure. At the same time, we shouldn't let that cool factor blind us of negative actions they take in order to achieve that leap in space technology.

              4 votes
              1. [2]
                OBLIVIATER
                Link Parent
                I'm sorry you feel that way.

                I'm sorry you feel that way.

                6 votes
                1. creesch
                  Link Parent
                  Well, that certainly is passive-aggressive.

                  Well, that certainly is passive-aggressive.

                  5 votes
          3. [2]
            pete_the_paper_boat
            Link Parent
            I can't imagine significant amounts of hexavalent chromium is being emitted here on these launches. Either way it's speculative at best. 'tens of thousands of gallons', yeah, of water coming in...

            I can't imagine significant amounts of hexavalent chromium is being emitted here on these launches.

            Either way it's speculative at best. 'tens of thousands of gallons', yeah, of water coming in contact with the rocket exhaust.

            It's not like a concentrated pipe of toxic chemicals being dumped in the ocean. Not much against the article, but I dislike the framing of the original comment.

            14 votes
            1. creesch
              Link Parent
              Yeah that is entirely fair.

              Not much against the article, but I dislike the framing of the original comment.

              Yeah that is entirely fair.

              2 votes
        2. PleasantlyAverage
          Link Parent
          I don't get it. The director of the Environmental Integrity Project interviewed by NPR about the application, says these contaminants are in the water, but doesn't quantify their amount. It leaves...

          I don't get it. The director of the Environmental Integrity Project interviewed by NPR about the application, says these contaminants are in the water, but doesn't quantify their amount. It leaves the impression that these are significant, but the lab reports indicate they fall within the EPA's limits for drinking water, which explains SpaceX's insistence on the water being potable. It makes sense not wanting to drink it, but from an analytical perspective it would be fine.

          Tables with limits and measurements

          EPA Primary Limits:

          Compound Limit (mg/l) Sample 1 Sample 2
          Arsenic 0.01 0.002 0.00002
          Chromium (Total) 0.1 0.002 0.0003

          EPA Secondary Limit (non-enforceable guidelines):

          Compound Limit (mg/l) Sample 1 Sample 2
          Aluminum 0.05-0.2 0.07 0.062
          Zinc 5 1.42 0.004

          Application (pg. 79)
          EPA Primary water limits
          EPA Secondary limits

          8 votes
  2. fraughtGYRE
    Link
    Also, the re-entry of the Starship upper stage performed better, though still not perfectly: some burnthrough was still evident on at least one of the rear flap hinges. However, they were able to...

    Also, the re-entry of the Starship upper stage performed better, though still not perfectly: some burnthrough was still evident on at least one of the rear flap hinges.

    However, they were able to remain in control and actually landed it next to a buoy they had in the ocean - we got a feed from a camera on the buoy after landing! This is an incredible demonstration of accuracy, especially through the difficulty of damage and the atmosphere itself.

    15 votes
  3. [2]
    mycketforvirrad
    Link
    Previous discussions can be found here.

    Previous discussions can be found here.

    7 votes
    1. SirNut
      Link Parent
      Huh, I had searched to see if anyone discussed it beforehand and I didn’t see any posts so I went ahead and went first Looks like @PleasantlyAverage technically beat me to it by four minutes, so...

      Huh, I had searched to see if anyone discussed it beforehand and I didn’t see any posts so I went ahead and went first

      Looks like @PleasantlyAverage technically beat me to it by four minutes, so sorry for stealing the thunder lol

      4 votes