To be fair, the censorship is there - and would be there - even without google. I don't see why are some people in this thread saying "it's unethical!" so much.
To be fair, the censorship is there - and would be there - even without google. I don't see why are some people in this thread saying "it's unethical!" so much.
"Ten people are stomping on a guy lying on the ground, I go join and become the eleventh, he's already messed up anyways." Is this ethical or unethical? Some people find working for an institution...
"Ten people are stomping on a guy lying on the ground, I go join and become the eleventh, he's already messed up anyways." Is this ethical or unethical?
Some people find working for an institution that works with an opressive and redhanded regime unethical, and that's at least rather hard to negate, if possible at all.
The floods of people here that agreed that one should leave google just because of this surprised me. What google is doing is bringing it's tool - with censorship - to china to replace their...
The floods of people here that agreed that one should leave google just because of this surprised me.
What google is doing is bringing it's tool - with censorship - to china to replace their inferior tool - which has censorship as well.
Some people find working for an institution that works with an opressive and redhanded regime unethical
Do you mean redhanded as they kill people or redhanded as communist? you don't have to answer this
I don't think google doing it is unethical - it's just another way for google alphabet to make money. They see china as big market with potential, it's wonderful opportunity to make loads of money.
"Ten people are stomping on a guy lying on the ground, I go join and become the eleventh, he's already messed up anyways."
I don't think this is exactly this thing. This would be it if google came to china and oppressed people there even more. Google just gives them superior search engine - with the same amount of censorship as before.
It's more like you have people in prison, they get beaten every second day and get poor meals. Then google comes, and while the amount of beating doesn't change, the prisoners at least get much better meal.
I see this as an improvement for Chinese people - the same amount of censorship as before, but they can use better tool.
I would be careful on this line. Companies, governments, people in general don't pay extra for "improving the users' experience". If China is looking at Google, it will very likely come with more...
Google just gives them superior search engine - with the same amount of censorship as before.
I would be careful on this line. Companies, governments, people in general don't pay extra for "improving the users' experience". If China is looking at Google, it will very likely come with more than "just a better search engine". There will be more tools for censorship. If nothing else, better ability to aggregate data goes hand-in-hand with better ability to choose what to do with that data.
Can only speak for myself, but the reason I find Google trying to enter the Chinese market distasteful is the compromise of their values. I don't believe you can support a cause (freedom of expression) in one place and be cool to sell out in another. It means, you don't value or truly support the cause.
My personal example is cruelty free products (no animal testing). If I buy soap or whatever from a company that claims to be cruelty free, they need to be cruelty free - no exceptions.
On your first point, I have nothing to say. I don't think they had these values anymore in recent years. I would put mark when Google started turning into careless money-hoarding company to 2015...
On your first point, I have nothing to say.
compromise of their values
I don't think they had these values anymore in recent years. I would put mark when Google started turning into careless money-hoarding company to 2015 when they alphabet removed 'Don't Be Evil' from their code of conduct. In recent years, they started to push more and more invasive and money-hoarding apps and techniques.
Edit: corrected who actually removed the Don't Be Evil phrase.
Yeah, they've been eroding their values for a while. Guess people just have different levels of what they can accept and it looks like breaking into China is the last straw for some.
Yeah, they've been eroding their values for a while. Guess people just have different levels of what they can accept and it looks like breaking into China is the last straw for some.
With ethics that low I hope you never code then.
w/r/t Chinese State-sponsored censorship, is that not harm?
To be fair, the censorship is there - and would be there - even without google. I don't see why are some people in this thread saying "it's unethical!" so much.
"Ten people are stomping on a guy lying on the ground, I go join and become the eleventh, he's already messed up anyways." Is this ethical or unethical?
Some people find working for an institution that works with an opressive and redhanded regime unethical, and that's at least rather hard to negate, if possible at all.
The floods of people here that agreed that one should leave google just because of this surprised me.
What google is doing is bringing it's tool - with censorship - to china to replace their inferior tool - which has censorship as well.
Do you mean redhanded as they kill people or redhanded as communist? you don't have to answer this
I don't think google doing it is unethical - it's just another way for
googlealphabet to make money. They see china as big market with potential, it's wonderful opportunity to make loads of money.I don't think this is exactly this thing. This would be it if google came to china and oppressed people there even more. Google just gives them superior search engine - with the same amount of censorship as before.
It's more like you have people in prison, they get beaten every second day and get poor meals. Then google comes, and while the amount of beating doesn't change, the prisoners at least get much better meal.
I see this as an improvement for Chinese people - the same amount of censorship as before, but they can use better tool.
I would be careful on this line. Companies, governments, people in general don't pay extra for "improving the users' experience". If China is looking at Google, it will very likely come with more than "just a better search engine". There will be more tools for censorship. If nothing else, better ability to aggregate data goes hand-in-hand with better ability to choose what to do with that data.
Can only speak for myself, but the reason I find Google trying to enter the Chinese market distasteful is the compromise of their values. I don't believe you can support a cause (freedom of expression) in one place and be cool to sell out in another. It means, you don't value or truly support the cause.
My personal example is cruelty free products (no animal testing). If I buy soap or whatever from a company that claims to be cruelty free, they need to be cruelty free - no exceptions.
On your first point, I have nothing to say.
I don't think they had these values anymore in recent years. I would put mark when Google started turning into careless money-hoarding company to 2015 when
theyalphabet removed 'Don't Be Evil' from their code of conduct. In recent years, they started to push more and more invasive and money-hoarding apps and techniques.Edit: corrected who actually removed the Don't Be Evil phrase.
Yeah, they've been eroding their values for a while. Guess people just have different levels of what they can accept and it looks like breaking into China is the last straw for some.
It's no more a discussion when you distort my words.
I mean, at least you admit it I guess. Makes you better than those who don't.
Does it, though?
Slightly?
I think it makes it worse in that it's consciously and knowingly being immoral as opposed to inadvertently and/or ignorantly being so.
It's good for us though. Then we know, too.
Except people do get hurt
With Google on your CV you would make it into a good position anywhere, it's not the end of the world.