The concept of the tech is really fascinating. On one level, giving Alexa the ability to notice changes in your behavior and speech and then to ask if you are feeling ok just makes here feel one...
The concept of the tech is really fascinating.
On one level, giving Alexa the ability to notice changes in your behavior and speech and then to ask if you are feeling ok just makes here feel one step closer to being a true AI. Since I have started using her I occasionally have wished she had more functions like that, to give a true smart home AI feel. Like getting home from work, asking her to turn on the lights and having her ask my how my shift/day was (independently). It is definitely an ability that is missing from the digital assistant / smart home experience.
But, on the flip side of that is Amazon using that information to market things to you and sell you stuff. It is something that clearly is an invasion of privacy and even as an active Alexa user, with multiple Alexa devices, I find it creepy. I love Alexa and am a pretty heavy Amazon user (I live rurally, do most of my shopping via Prime, streaming, pantry, etc etc) but I would never once say that I have ever gotten the feeling that Amazon is a trustworthy company that has its users best interests at heart.
That's interesting. That's the exact opposite of what I want from a smart home device. The idea of a device, a thing attempting to fool me into empathizing with it is pretty unsettling for me. I'd...
Exemplary
Like getting home from work, asking her to turn on the lights and having her ask my how my shift/day was (independently). It is definitely an ability that is missing from the digital assistant / smart home experience.
That's interesting. That's the exact opposite of what I want from a smart home device. The idea of a device, a thing attempting to fool me into empathizing with it is pretty unsettling for me. I'd only want the device to ask me about my day only if it actually cared ie; if it was sentient. If that was the case, "owning" it would be slavery, and would be even more unsettling.
Having it go through the motions of relating to me feels like exploitation. On an intellectual level, I'd know that some guy in Seattle just programmed it to do that. On a purely emotional level, I'd be fooled because it's close enough to a human. It would just feel extremely cheap and sleezy to me.
That's not even considering the fact that you brought up. These devices are made by the world's biggest retail company in order to sell things. Once you add that part in, it really starts to feel like a horribly depressing cyberpunk story. The idea of an unthinking, uncaring device attempting to emotionally bond with a depressed person to try to sell them things from the company that made it is something so brutally tragic that it would have filled William Gibson with existential dread.
Not going to lie, you just painted a great image in my head, depressing sure, but great nonetheless. I don't think having a true AI in your home would be slavery, but thats an Asimov level of...
The idea of an unthinking, uncaring device attempting to emotionally bond with a depressed person to try to sell them things from the company that made it is something so brutally tragic that it would have filled William Gibson with existential dread.
Not going to lie, you just painted a great image in my head, depressing sure, but great nonetheless.
I don't think having a true AI in your home would be slavery, but thats an Asimov level of decision that is far beyond Alexa and this century.
The thing is, they all already do stuff like this and without noticing it we anthropomorphise them. So why not take it to the next level? I get that it's not your cup of tea, but for me and a lot of other smart home users having something like that is the goal of a smart home.
I think my feelings on it are difficult to express. I don't really see an issue with anthropomorphizing technology in a vacuum. I just think I'd feel much more comfortable embracing that idea if...
The thing is, they all already do stuff like this and without noticing it we anthropomorphise them. So why not take it to the next level?
I think my feelings on it are difficult to express. I don't really see an issue with anthropomorphizing technology in a vacuum. I just think I'd feel much more comfortable embracing that idea if that technology was FOSS or developed by me exclusively. A clockwork simulacrum where you can peel the hood back and know why the machine said that particular thing which made you feel that particular thing makes me far less uncomfortable than a black box that gets updated without your knowledge to try new psychology tricks when the sadists in the field of marketing psychology make a new "breakthrough". Especially when the motive for those updates are purely the profit of the organization that built it. A FOSS project generally isn't going to be after selling ads or products, so that motive disappears.
I think a lot of people that are more accepting of ads and corporate influence in their daily lives tend to overestimate an individual human being's emotional intelligence and willpower (not talking about you btw, just in general). I fully acknowledge that I'm a flawed, exploitable animal with emotional weaknesses that can be pressed on to cause me to do things against my own self interests. I also realize that I stand zero chance of resisting those weaknesses against a massive tech company employing the smartest people in the world.
Thank you for the conversation by the way, you've really helped me crystallize my thoughts on this issue.
Two reasons; I would like to give Amazon the benefit of a doubt. They have not yet actually done anything that would constitute a major breach of privacy. They have been very quick to explain how...
Out of curiosity, why do you have Alexa if you don't trust Amazon to not invade your privacy?
Two reasons;
I would like to give Amazon the benefit of a doubt. They have not yet actually done anything that would constitute a major breach of privacy. They have been very quick to explain how the technology works and make it clear that she is only listening when activated.
And, when it comes down to it, the reality is anything that she gets from me really doesn't matter. I only have smart home devices in my living room. She is linked to my PC, FireTV and 8 light bulbs. Most she is going to get out of me is that I am an insomniac that sleeps 4-5 hours a night, get in far to many unnecessary internet arguments and my gaming/tv habits. Who cares? Even then there is no proof she is actually collecting most of that information.
Alexa, Echo and FireTV are by far the best option out there right now for smart home devices and I am not going to pass on using great technology because of unfounded paranoia.
I don't know if this exists or not but it would be really useful to have something like a FOSS locally hosted equivalent of Alexa running on like a Raspi. While we're at it, there should be a...
I don't know if this exists or not but it would be really useful to have something like a FOSS locally hosted equivalent of Alexa running on like a Raspi. While we're at it, there should be a privacy respecting locally hosted equivalent of most smart devices.
Mycroft is a great concept, but is nowhere near ready yet. If they stick with it and it gets a good following it will beat out Alexa, Siri, Google Home (give the girl a name google) and Cortana...
Mycroft is a great concept, but is nowhere near ready yet. If they stick with it and it gets a good following it will beat out Alexa, Siri, Google Home (give the girl a name google) and Cortana easily.
I remember reading this tiny green book when I was a kid about how awesome our future will be. Our houses will be able to automatically order items we used up and need to stock or call for...
I remember reading this tiny green book when I was a kid about how awesome our future will be. Our houses will be able to automatically order items we used up and need to stock or call for repairs/maintenance. We'll wear watches that check our health and advise us to see a doctor or get a booster shot as required.
I'm glad part of this coming true, but just never imagined how commercialized it would be. I was pretty naive then...
The concept of the tech is really fascinating.
On one level, giving Alexa the ability to notice changes in your behavior and speech and then to ask if you are feeling ok just makes here feel one step closer to being a true AI. Since I have started using her I occasionally have wished she had more functions like that, to give a true smart home AI feel. Like getting home from work, asking her to turn on the lights and having her ask my how my shift/day was (independently). It is definitely an ability that is missing from the digital assistant / smart home experience.
But, on the flip side of that is Amazon using that information to market things to you and sell you stuff. It is something that clearly is an invasion of privacy and even as an active Alexa user, with multiple Alexa devices, I find it creepy. I love Alexa and am a pretty heavy Amazon user (I live rurally, do most of my shopping via Prime, streaming, pantry, etc etc) but I would never once say that I have ever gotten the feeling that Amazon is a trustworthy company that has its users best interests at heart.
That's interesting. That's the exact opposite of what I want from a smart home device. The idea of a device, a thing attempting to fool me into empathizing with it is pretty unsettling for me. I'd only want the device to ask me about my day only if it actually cared ie; if it was sentient. If that was the case, "owning" it would be slavery, and would be even more unsettling.
Having it go through the motions of relating to me feels like exploitation. On an intellectual level, I'd know that some guy in Seattle just programmed it to do that. On a purely emotional level, I'd be fooled because it's close enough to a human. It would just feel extremely cheap and sleezy to me.
That's not even considering the fact that you brought up. These devices are made by the world's biggest retail company in order to sell things. Once you add that part in, it really starts to feel like a horribly depressing cyberpunk story. The idea of an unthinking, uncaring device attempting to emotionally bond with a depressed person to try to sell them things from the company that made it is something so brutally tragic that it would have filled William Gibson with existential dread.
Not going to lie, you just painted a great image in my head, depressing sure, but great nonetheless.
I don't think having a true AI in your home would be slavery, but thats an Asimov level of decision that is far beyond Alexa and this century.
The thing is, they all already do stuff like this and without noticing it we anthropomorphise them. So why not take it to the next level? I get that it's not your cup of tea, but for me and a lot of other smart home users having something like that is the goal of a smart home.
I think my feelings on it are difficult to express. I don't really see an issue with anthropomorphizing technology in a vacuum. I just think I'd feel much more comfortable embracing that idea if that technology was FOSS or developed by me exclusively. A clockwork simulacrum where you can peel the hood back and know why the machine said that particular thing which made you feel that particular thing makes me far less uncomfortable than a black box that gets updated without your knowledge to try new psychology tricks when the sadists in the field of marketing psychology make a new "breakthrough". Especially when the motive for those updates are purely the profit of the organization that built it. A FOSS project generally isn't going to be after selling ads or products, so that motive disappears.
I think a lot of people that are more accepting of ads and corporate influence in their daily lives tend to overestimate an individual human being's emotional intelligence and willpower (not talking about you btw, just in general). I fully acknowledge that I'm a flawed, exploitable animal with emotional weaknesses that can be pressed on to cause me to do things against my own self interests. I also realize that I stand zero chance of resisting those weaknesses against a massive tech company employing the smartest people in the world.
Thank you for the conversation by the way, you've really helped me crystallize my thoughts on this issue.
Two reasons;
I would like to give Amazon the benefit of a doubt. They have not yet actually done anything that would constitute a major breach of privacy. They have been very quick to explain how the technology works and make it clear that she is only listening when activated.
And, when it comes down to it, the reality is anything that she gets from me really doesn't matter. I only have smart home devices in my living room. She is linked to my PC, FireTV and 8 light bulbs. Most she is going to get out of me is that I am an insomniac that sleeps 4-5 hours a night, get in far to many unnecessary internet arguments and my gaming/tv habits. Who cares? Even then there is no proof she is actually collecting most of that information.
Alexa, Echo and FireTV are by far the best option out there right now for smart home devices and I am not going to pass on using great technology because of unfounded paranoia.
I don't know if this exists or not but it would be really useful to have something like a FOSS locally hosted equivalent of Alexa running on like a Raspi. While we're at it, there should be a privacy respecting locally hosted equivalent of most smart devices.
There's a few different options here. I think the most popular is Mycroft.
Mycroft is a great concept, but is nowhere near ready yet. If they stick with it and it gets a good following it will beat out Alexa, Siri, Google Home (give the girl a name google) and Cortana easily.
I remember reading this tiny green book when I was a kid about how awesome our future will be. Our houses will be able to automatically order items we used up and need to stock or call for repairs/maintenance. We'll wear watches that check our health and advise us to see a doctor or get a booster shot as required.
I'm glad part of this coming true, but just never imagined how commercialized it would be. I was pretty naive then...