Referring to this without noting the fact that the alt-right deliberately associated the OK symbol with white power as an attempt to frame the left as absurd shows that the journalist here doesn't...
Tarrant flashed a white power hand sign used in neo-Nazi circles
Referring to this without noting the fact that the alt-right deliberately associated the OK symbol with white power as an attempt to frame the left as absurd shows that the journalist here doesn't have a good grasp of /pol/ and alt-right culture imho.
But, many alt-right people use this sign sincerely. The line between irony and sincerity has become blurred. Not everyone who uses this sign realises it's supposed to be ironic.
But, many alt-right people use this sign sincerely. The line between irony and sincerity has become blurred. Not everyone who uses this sign realises it's supposed to be ironic.
Which is exactly how this mess started in the first place. Most racist movements today started from people who were joking around ironically on 4chan but suddenly many of the new guys (and some of...
The line between irony and sincerity has become blurred.
Which is exactly how this mess started in the first place. Most racist movements today started from people who were joking around ironically on 4chan but suddenly many of the new guys (and some of the old guys too, i guess) weren't just joking.
This is one of the things I've been interested in trying to figure out, because even though 4chan had a very racist streak running through it they were known for attacking neo-nazis and were hated...
This is one of the things I've been interested in trying to figure out, because even though 4chan had a very racist streak running through it they were known for attacking neo-nazis and were hated by fox news pundits in the earlier days. I think the shift came from when the site transitioned owners because prior to that point Moot was a bit more invested in stopping sitewide raids and clamped down on politics in particular. The new site owner instead seems to relish in the behavior knowing that it draws more eyes to the site.
I think it was around the time of the GamerGate movement considering many of the alt-right figureheads got started in that movement.
I think it happened before that. It was already on a steep decline way before he retired - the active boards got flooded in politics leading up to the 2012 election, a lot of it was just people...
I think it happened before that. It was already on a steep decline way before he retired - the active boards got flooded in politics leading up to the 2012 election, a lot of it was just people memeing, but it never really left. Later, it started bleeding into the rest of the site, but at that point it had definitely reached way past the point of ironic joke and reached... whatever /pol/ is today.
(Side note: I love how this community is actually small enough that I can recognize usernames after a little browsing. That's not an experience I've had in a loooong time. Sorry it was you who made me realize it, I can edit this out if you'd rather not be recognized.)
really, at some point even the "ironic" usage is just sincere usage masquerading as irony. virtually all of the "ironic" bigotry on 4chan for example is perfectly sincere to the point where making...
really, at some point even the "ironic" usage is just sincere usage masquerading as irony. virtually all of the "ironic" bigotry on 4chan for example is perfectly sincere to the point where making the distinction is basically semantic nowadays--it's just easy for the people on 4chan to explain it away as a meme. the same thing is true of the OK sign in the context of white nationalism and fascism. the "ironic" usage of it has become so ubiquitous that it's honestly not irony anymore to troll the libs, it's sincerity. it is unto itself a dogwhistle.
I think there was a point where it was sincere ironic jokes (a bunch of the other forums I used to frequent in the late 00's had similar jokes, and there it was definitely ironic because we all...
I think there was a point where it was sincere ironic jokes (a bunch of the other forums I used to frequent in the late 00's had similar jokes, and there it was definitely ironic because we all knew roughly what each others actual stances on the topics were), but that point was passed a long time ago.
It's strikingly similar to what happened with the swastika as the nazi movement repurposed the symbol to represent racial superiority. At a certain point considering how many people on the...
It's strikingly similar to what happened with the swastika as the nazi movement repurposed the symbol to represent racial superiority. At a certain point considering how many people on the alt-right sincerely use the OK symbol as a dog whistle the actual meaning behind it will be replaced.
There was an artist that lived in the town where I grew up that believed it was his mission to reclaim the swastika symbol: ManWoman Is Taking Back the Swastika He died about 6 years ago, but was...
Exemplary
There was an artist that lived in the town where I grew up that believed it was his mission to reclaim the swastika symbol: ManWoman Is Taking Back the Swastika
He died about 6 years ago, but was an extremely nice, quiet guy. It was always strange to see him with his arms completely covered in swastikas and know they were there for a reason completely opposite of what everyone would assume.
That's a fair point, but given what we know about this terrorist, he would absolutely have known this context, and was using the platform he was afforded by having the cameras of the world on him...
That's a fair point, but given what we know about this terrorist, he would absolutely have known this context, and was using the platform he was afforded by having the cameras of the world on him to hammer the wedge between left and right.
This is the issue IMO. A lot of channers create stuff like this just to troll. But a lot of them actually take it seriously. New users are not to know whether people are being serious or trolling....
This is the issue IMO. A lot of channers create stuff like this just to troll. But a lot of them actually take it seriously. New users are not to know whether people are being serious or trolling. That's why things like these shootings happen. Didn't the shooter even say "enough shitposting, it's time to do something!"
Trolling / joking is just a way to say what you actually think but deflect any criticisms. You see it all the time where someone says something horrible, a bunch of people reply in support and one...
Trolling / joking is just a way to say what you actually think but deflect any criticisms. You see it all the time where someone says something horrible, a bunch of people reply in support and one person goes against it and they are met with the reply "Don't you understand what a joke is retard?"
Referring to this without noting the fact that the alt-right deliberately associated the OK symbol with white power as an attempt to frame the left as absurd shows that the journalist here doesn't have a good grasp of /pol/ and alt-right culture imho.
But, many alt-right people use this sign sincerely. The line between irony and sincerity has become blurred. Not everyone who uses this sign realises it's supposed to be ironic.
Which is exactly how this mess started in the first place. Most racist movements today started from people who were joking around ironically on 4chan but suddenly many of the new guys (and some of the old guys too, i guess) weren't just joking.
This is one of the things I've been interested in trying to figure out, because even though 4chan had a very racist streak running through it they were known for attacking neo-nazis and were hated by fox news pundits in the earlier days. I think the shift came from when the site transitioned owners because prior to that point Moot was a bit more invested in stopping sitewide raids and clamped down on politics in particular. The new site owner instead seems to relish in the behavior knowing that it draws more eyes to the site.
I think it was around the time of the GamerGate movement considering many of the alt-right figureheads got started in that movement.
I think it happened before that. It was already on a steep decline way before he retired - the active boards got flooded in politics leading up to the 2012 election, a lot of it was just people memeing, but it never really left. Later, it started bleeding into the rest of the site, but at that point it had definitely reached way past the point of ironic joke and reached... whatever /pol/ is today.
(Side note: I love how this community is actually small enough that I can recognize usernames after a little browsing. That's not an experience I've had in a loooong time. Sorry it was you who made me realize it, I can edit this out if you'd rather not be recognized.)
really, at some point even the "ironic" usage is just sincere usage masquerading as irony. virtually all of the "ironic" bigotry on 4chan for example is perfectly sincere to the point where making the distinction is basically semantic nowadays--it's just easy for the people on 4chan to explain it away as a meme. the same thing is true of the OK sign in the context of white nationalism and fascism. the "ironic" usage of it has become so ubiquitous that it's honestly not irony anymore to troll the libs, it's sincerity. it is unto itself a dogwhistle.
Yep.
I think there was a point where it was sincere ironic jokes (a bunch of the other forums I used to frequent in the late 00's had similar jokes, and there it was definitely ironic because we all knew roughly what each others actual stances on the topics were), but that point was passed a long time ago.
It's strikingly similar to what happened with the swastika as the nazi movement repurposed the symbol to represent racial superiority. At a certain point considering how many people on the alt-right sincerely use the OK symbol as a dog whistle the actual meaning behind it will be replaced.
There was an artist that lived in the town where I grew up that believed it was his mission to reclaim the swastika symbol: ManWoman Is Taking Back the Swastika
He died about 6 years ago, but was an extremely nice, quiet guy. It was always strange to see him with his arms completely covered in swastikas and know they were there for a reason completely opposite of what everyone would assume.
That's a fair point, but given what we know about this terrorist, he would absolutely have known this context, and was using the platform he was afforded by having the cameras of the world on him to hammer the wedge between left and right.
This is the issue IMO. A lot of channers create stuff like this just to troll. But a lot of them actually take it seriously. New users are not to know whether people are being serious or trolling. That's why things like these shootings happen. Didn't the shooter even say "enough shitposting, it's time to do something!"
Trolling / joking is just a way to say what you actually think but deflect any criticisms. You see it all the time where someone says something horrible, a bunch of people reply in support and one person goes against it and they are met with the reply "Don't you understand what a joke is retard?"
Its really weird seeing how many memes that guy was posting. Just before he starts shooing he tells people to subscribe to pewdiepie.