/r/agedlikemilk The main argument I see in the comments is "artists weren't always paid in the past, so they shouldn't be able to make a living off it now" and usually quoted from someone that is...
The main argument I see in the comments is "artists weren't always paid in the past, so they shouldn't be able to make a living off it now" and usually quoted from someone that is already extremely successful off of the system they're saying shouldn't exist now. "I got mine, so fuck all y'all."
That said, it appears they quoted parties and commenters weren't expecting Patreon and while it has allowed an innumerable number of people to make a living from the seemingly outdated model of patrons providing direct support, it hasn't killed/disrupted Hollywood.
Side note: Direct patrons (non-Patreon) still exist and were present prior to Patreon's creation. However, they are not the Patreon style numerous small donations, but individual or groups of wealthy people supporting an artist. A friend of a friend is one of these patrons and directly supports an opera singer. Which also gives him access to her that isn't something most artists are willing to do or wouldn't be feasible with the small donation Patreon model where thousands of people would want the same.
The only thing I see after skimming the comments that came to fruition is crowdsourcing movies, but it's still not extremely widespread on a "disrupt Hollywood" level and Hollywood are willing to do what the vast majority of people that join crowdsourcing efforts do not: accept failure
Through multiple interviews I've read with directors/actors I'm under the impression that it's very common for movies to get greenlit, start production, get partway through, and then the money or greenlight from the studio runs out and the movie is just cancelled. Most people aren't willing to pay for something and get nothing out of it. Yes there are disclaimers and "understand the risk" boilerplate, but it's largely ignored and you see the backlash constantly when backed projects fizzle out with nothing to show for it. Would you ever eat in a restaurant again if there was a disclaimer on the menu that said "There's a high likelihood that I may burn your food or the restaurant will close during cooking, if that happens you will not be refunded or given a replacement order."?
What a lot of these anti-Hollywood types seem to consistently miss is the fact that most people love the results of industrialized film production. There are some people who get high on their own...
What a lot of these anti-Hollywood types seem to consistently miss is the fact that most people love the results of industrialized film production. There are some people who get high on their own farts and pretend that big budget productions aren't real art, but the vast majority of people do not care and actively enjoy the products of the current system.
Any suggestion that would result in movies like Avengers: End Game or shows like Game of Thrones going away is going to fall on deaf ears.
Precisely. Imagine Coppola directing Endgame and telling all of these 3,800 or so people to do it out of their passion for the arts or to go find their own patron. ring ring, ring ring "Hello?"...
Precisely. Imagine Coppola directing Endgame and telling all of these 3,800 or so people to do it out of their passion for the arts or to go find their own patron.
ring ring, ring ring
"Hello?"
"Hello there Amy MacIlraith, this is famed director Francis Ford Coppola, wanted to let you know we're doing this movie a...different way."
"Uhh, okay... Nice to meet you. Can you explain that a little further Mr.Coppola?"
"Of course! I realize I've made my many millions off a system that I'm now rejecting, but going forward I'm requiring everyone to adhere to an ideal that does not adversely effect me in any way. I understand that you are... just a moment while I check my notes... you are a transport office assistant for the production, correct?"
"Well yes, but I'm still not understanding what you're saying Mr.Coppola."
"Ah, you see movies should be made out of passion for the ART! So henceforth I'm going to need you to work for the movie out of a love of the movie making process and hold another occupation while you do so to support yourself. Simple as that!"
"You mean you want me to work for free for you and do another job to pay my bills at the same time?"
"Precisely, you've got it! I don't understand why this seems to be so hard for so many to understand. I've been making these calls all morning, normally I'd have my assistant do so, but when I told him the same thing he seemed confused and just left... Or.. OR! You could do as artists have done for hundreds of years and find yourself a patron! Someone that is extremely passionate about your form transport office assistant art and they will support you in this endeavor. Doesn't that just sound perfect‽"
click
"Hello? Hello? Why does everyone hang up on me? I'm Francis Fucking Ford Coppola, don't they know who I am?"
Kinda worked out, kinda not. In particular, it is true that Hollywood peaked, and other entertainment forms ate their lunch in terms of growth. But it's not true that Hollywood has, is, or is...
Kinda worked out, kinda not. In particular, it is true that Hollywood peaked, and other entertainment forms ate their lunch in terms of growth. But it's not true that Hollywood has, is, or is anything particularly close to being killed by them. Box office revenue has not grown significantly in the last two decades; in recent years, it's plateaued at around 11b.
On the other hand, video game revenue has almost doubled in the last decade in the US, and at 65b in just the US is now higher than the movie industry. I'm sure the massive growth of social media, youtube, tiktok, etc has also chipped at what could have been the movie industry's to gain.
But, that's just eating into potential growth, far from killing it.
The more interesting disruption perhaps is the way that more and more traditional media is beholden to tech companies. People watch much of their movies on their computers, phones, tablets, smart tvs, tv boxes (roku, apple tv, etc.) - and you need the platform owner's permission to do so.
/r/agedlikemilk
The main argument I see in the comments is "artists weren't always paid in the past, so they shouldn't be able to make a living off it now" and usually quoted from someone that is already extremely successful off of the system they're saying shouldn't exist now. "I got mine, so fuck all y'all."
That said, it appears they quoted parties and commenters weren't expecting Patreon and while it has allowed an innumerable number of people to make a living from the seemingly outdated model of patrons providing direct support, it hasn't killed/disrupted Hollywood.
Side note: Direct patrons (non-Patreon) still exist and were present prior to Patreon's creation. However, they are not the Patreon style numerous small donations, but individual or groups of wealthy people supporting an artist. A friend of a friend is one of these patrons and directly supports an opera singer. Which also gives him access to her that isn't something most artists are willing to do or wouldn't be feasible with the small donation Patreon model where thousands of people would want the same.
The only thing I see after skimming the comments that came to fruition is crowdsourcing movies, but it's still not extremely widespread on a "disrupt Hollywood" level and Hollywood are willing to do what the vast majority of people that join crowdsourcing efforts do not: accept failure
Through multiple interviews I've read with directors/actors I'm under the impression that it's very common for movies to get greenlit, start production, get partway through, and then the money or greenlight from the studio runs out and the movie is just cancelled. Most people aren't willing to pay for something and get nothing out of it. Yes there are disclaimers and "understand the risk" boilerplate, but it's largely ignored and you see the backlash constantly when backed projects fizzle out with nothing to show for it. Would you ever eat in a restaurant again if there was a disclaimer on the menu that said "There's a high likelihood that I may burn your food or the restaurant will close during cooking, if that happens you will not be refunded or given a replacement order."?
What a lot of these anti-Hollywood types seem to consistently miss is the fact that most people love the results of industrialized film production. There are some people who get high on their own farts and pretend that big budget productions aren't real art, but the vast majority of people do not care and actively enjoy the products of the current system.
Any suggestion that would result in movies like Avengers: End Game or shows like Game of Thrones going away is going to fall on deaf ears.
Precisely. Imagine Coppola directing Endgame and telling all of these 3,800 or so people to do it out of their passion for the arts or to go find their own patron.
ring ring, ring ring
"Hello?"
"Hello there Amy MacIlraith, this is famed director Francis Ford Coppola, wanted to let you know we're doing this movie a...different way."
"Uhh, okay... Nice to meet you. Can you explain that a little further Mr.Coppola?"
"Of course! I realize I've made my many millions off a system that I'm now rejecting, but going forward I'm requiring everyone to adhere to an ideal that does not adversely effect me in any way. I understand that you are... just a moment while I check my notes... you are a transport office assistant for the production, correct?"
"Well yes, but I'm still not understanding what you're saying Mr.Coppola."
"Ah, you see movies should be made out of passion for the ART! So henceforth I'm going to need you to work for the movie out of a love of the movie making process and hold another occupation while you do so to support yourself. Simple as that!"
"You mean you want me to work for free for you and do another job to pay my bills at the same time?"
"Precisely, you've got it! I don't understand why this seems to be so hard for so many to understand. I've been making these calls all morning, normally I'd have my assistant do so, but when I told him the same thing he seemed confused and just left... Or.. OR! You could do as artists have done for hundreds of years and find yourself a patron! Someone that is extremely passionate about your form transport office assistant art and they will support you in this endeavor. Doesn't that just sound perfect‽"
click
"Hello? Hello? Why does everyone hang up on me? I'm Francis Fucking Ford Coppola, don't they know who I am?"
Kinda worked out, kinda not. In particular, it is true that Hollywood peaked, and other entertainment forms ate their lunch in terms of growth. But it's not true that Hollywood has, is, or is anything particularly close to being killed by them. Box office revenue has not grown significantly in the last two decades; in recent years, it's plateaued at around 11b.
On the other hand, video game revenue has almost doubled in the last decade in the US, and at 65b in just the US is now higher than the movie industry. I'm sure the massive growth of social media, youtube, tiktok, etc has also chipped at what could have been the movie industry's to gain.
But, that's just eating into potential growth, far from killing it.
The more interesting disruption perhaps is the way that more and more traditional media is beholden to tech companies. People watch much of their movies on their computers, phones, tablets, smart tvs, tv boxes (roku, apple tv, etc.) - and you need the platform owner's permission to do so.
Discussion.