I visited Munich for a few days last year. My recommendations: Englischer Garten: One of the largest parks in the world (even larger than Central Park in NYC). A great place to bring some food and...
I visited Munich for a few days last year. My recommendations:
Englischer Garten: One of the largest parks in the world (even larger than Central Park in NYC). A great place to bring some food and beers for a picnic. The Eisbach river that runs through the park (which is beautiful to walk along in itself) has an artificial standing wave which the locals surf which is very entertaining to watch. Some regions of the park are also designated for nudists, which was a surprise to see away from a beach.
Tergensee day trip: Less than an hour by train is a quaint town situated next to a large, scenic lake. There are a lot of breweries here, however I recommend hiking about an hour uphill (it's worth it!) through the forest to Berggasthof Neureuth which is a restaurant situated on top of the mountain. They have great food, beer, and a truly stunning view. It's a great place to hang out for a few hours. It felt very Bavarian- there were even fluffy brown cows adorned with bells grazing in rolling green meadows. This didn't seem like it was on the radar of most tourists, so it was nice to get away from the crowds. Probably my favorite activity in Munich.
Mittenwald day trip: Mittenwald is most well known for the murals that adorn the outside of the buildings. The subject matter of the murals is a bit cheesy- rosy-cheeked idyllic farmers and bible stories- but the murals are so intricate and there are so many that they still make for an interesting sight, especially with the alps towering in the background. However, the most unique attraction here is the Leutaschklamm / Geisterklamm path, which is a series of suspended walkways over a large gorge with a waterfall. I just grabbed a video from Youtube which doesn't fully do it justice. At several points you are walking over a see-through metal suspended bridge and can see straight down for hundreds of meters. This will help you overcome your fear of heights if you have one. You can also access the alps from a cable car in the city. Mittenwald is definitely more on the touristy side, but I enjoyed the variety of different activities within walking distance.
Munich Residenz: Very cool art here if you're into classical art and ornate architecture. Just be warned that it is absolutely massive and a bit exhausting to get through it all.
Viktualienmarkt: A large market in that features some quality beer, food, coffee, etc.
It goes without saying that you have to visit the biergartens to order lots of beer, sausages, and pretzels. I visited around Oktoberfest (but didn't attend), so some of the biergartens featured bands playing traditional Bavarian music, which really sets the mood.
EDIT: Just remembered one more, make a quick stop at Asam Church. It's small, but one of the more beautiful church interiors that I've seen in Europe.
If I had more time then I would have visited Neuschwanstein Castle, which is probably the most popular day trip, although I'm glad that I prioritized the day trips listed above. It's a three hour train ride (one way) and packed with tourists, but it does look awesome.
I really enjoyed touring the Munich Residenz, which is a former royal palace. If you like art and/or museums, Alte Pinakothek is very much worth a visit. (Seeing Albrecht Durer's 1500...
I really enjoyed touring the Munich Residenz, which is a former royal palace. If you like art and/or museums, Alte Pinakothek is very much worth a visit. (Seeing Albrecht Durer's 1500 self-portrait in person alone was worth it for me.) My visit to Munich was fairly short, so I didn't get to see the other Pinakothek branches.
If your stay is long enough that you don't mind a day trip outside the city, a trip out to Andechs Monastery is really nice. You'll see some countryside, do some walking, and drink some great beer.
I second the reccomendation of the Englischer Garten. Rent some bikes and you don't need to bring anything as there are multiple places to have a beer and some food. I reccomend a trip to Dachau....
I second the reccomendation of the Englischer Garten. Rent some bikes and you don't need to bring anything as there are multiple places to have a beer and some food.
I reccomend a trip to Dachau. It's not for everyone, it can be quite moving.
Sorry for the delay. I'd give it half a day if you're staying in Munich. The train there takes half hour or so and we wandered around for a couple of hours inside.
Sorry for the delay. I'd give it half a day if you're staying in Munich. The train there takes half hour or so and we wandered around for a couple of hours inside.
One thing I didn't see anybody mention: climb up the tower of the church St. Peter (located near Marienplatz). It's the oldest church in Munich (nickname "Alter Peter" - "old Peter") and you have...
One thing I didn't see anybody mention: climb up the tower of the church St. Peter (located near Marienplatz). It's the oldest church in Munich (nickname "Alter Peter" - "old Peter") and you have a wonderful view of Munich from the top, on a clear day you can even see the Alps.
I went there for work about 2 months ago. We stayed in Old Town which has a lot to walk around and see. We went into several churches and ate at any place we could find that seemed local. Then we...
I went there for work about 2 months ago. We stayed in Old Town which has a lot to walk around and see. We went into several churches and ate at any place we could find that seemed local. Then we took a train to Salzburg and toured a castle there and walked around. There’s no shortage of things to do!
It seems like you're set on Munich but I'll post this here for anyone else considering travel to Germany. I'm an American now living over two years in Germany, big cities in this counrty suck as...
It seems like you're set on Munich but I'll post this here for anyone else considering travel to Germany. I'm an American now living over two years in Germany, big cities in this counrty suck as tourist destinations. Two factors here: the allies absolutely destroyed the major cities in the war which still leave a mark today and German city philosophy is that everything is in the city center making exploring cities dull as there's not much to find outside the center. That and German culture doesn't lend itself to sight seeing. Don't get me wrong, I love Germany and love living here but major German cities wouldn't be high up on my list of places to visit as a tourist.
The best things to see in Germany are in the smaller towns and cities outside of the big destinations. That's where you'll find the old history and culture. So far, all of my favorite places in Germany are in smaller cities
Edit: As HarvyGuesso pointed out, Berlin is definitely an exception but as a world capital it is a completely unique city both historically and culturally in its own right on the world stage
I bow to your experience and fully understand your argument but my visit to Berlin on my honeymoon was one of the most culturally enriching experiences I could ever have hoped for. We stayed in...
I bow to your experience and fully understand your argument but my visit to Berlin on my honeymoon was one of the most culturally enriching experiences I could ever have hoped for. We stayed in Prenzlauer Berg and we're spoiled for choice when it comes to eating and drinking. We visited day spas and art galleries - Liquidrom and Hamburger Bahnhof, both repurposed train stations. The Stasi Museum was chilling and a brilliant act of preservation both of evidence and history. Teufelsberg, the Olympic stadium, and Grunewald will be repeatedky visited by us on our future visits. The cafe culture and evidence of a healthy work/life balance in the population made for a very relaxing atmosphere. The architecture throughout the city is fascinating and its public transport infrastructure makes it a pleasure to stroll around aimlessly. Konnopke's Imbiss is my heaven. Again, I can't speak for other German Cities but I found Berlin to be a wonderful and rich city to visit and I will be going back there as often as life allows.
I love that you had a great time in Berlin but that's unfortunately the exception that proves the rule. No other city in Germany, or maybe even Europe, is like Berlin so it's almost unfair to make...
I love that you had a great time in Berlin but that's unfortunately the exception that proves the rule. No other city in Germany, or maybe even Europe, is like Berlin so it's almost unfair to make the comparison
Piggybacking here to say that my trip to Constance and up the Rhine Valley was so incredibly beautiful and rewarding. If anyone is looking for inspiration to plan a trip, I recommend it.
Piggybacking here to say that my trip to Constance and up the Rhine Valley was so incredibly beautiful and rewarding. If anyone is looking for inspiration to plan a trip, I recommend it.
I'd say it depends on what you like to do when you travel. Cologne is one of the biggest cities in Germany, and I'm heading back there for a third visit later this year. "Popular sentiment" seems...
I'd say it depends on what you like to do when you travel. Cologne is one of the biggest cities in Germany, and I'm heading back there for a third visit later this year. "Popular sentiment" seems to be that Frankfurt and Dusseldorf don't have that much to offer tourists, but I enjoyed both of those cities a lot. "Old history and culture" are great to take in, but, IMO, so is "current culture". I tend to like a mix of both when I'm traveling.
I’m genuinely curious now. What do these cities offer you, personally, as a traveler that can’t be easily found in other cities outside Germany? I did refer to „old history“ and „culture“ as...
I’m genuinely curious now. What do these cities offer you, personally, as a traveler that can’t be easily found in other cities outside Germany?
I did refer to „old history“ and „culture“ as separate, I never mentioned „old culture.“ Aside from Fests, which outside of Oktoberfest not many foreigners would know about, what exactly is German culture to you? I did note in my comment that German culture does not lend itself well to tourists and by that I meant modern culture. Cuisine that, although good in its own right, completely lacks renown. Techno but that scene is nowhere near as sophisticated as in Berlin. Biergartens? Great but as an international tour destination? You’re obviously seeing something that I’m not
Except that culture and history are so closely connected. Anyway, it seems like you and I are looking for different things when we travel. My assumption is that what you're attracted to is what...
I did refer to „old history“ and „culture“ as separate, I never mentioned „old culture.“
Except that culture and history are so closely connected. Anyway, it seems like you and I are looking for different things when we travel. My assumption is that what you're attracted to is what I'd think of as "traditional culture". I like that, too, although it can end up being a little "prepackaged" and overly-touristy and/or cheesy (which can be appealing in its own right, but in fairly small doses), so you sometimes have to be careful and do some research beforehand.
However, I also like hanging out in a place and, for lack of a better term, just soaking in its "vibe". Sitting in a cafe, surrounded by conversations in languages I don't speak (or at least don't speak much of), eating a pastry I can't get at home, and watching the city go by on the sidwalk outside -- to me, that's soaking up elements of contemporary culture, too, just watching everyday life happen.
Almost every large-ish city has a city museum, where there's usually an interesting combination of historical and contemporary exhibits. Another part of experiencing current culture is visiting places or attending events that locals go to, like a zoo or seeing a concert or sporting event. I'm hoping to catch a football (soccer) and/or ice hockey game in Germany this fall, in fact.
I also really like having lots of stuff in the city center, because I almost never rent a car and like there being a lot of things accessible on foot. I enjoy riding around on public transit, though, too. It's a nice way to see neighborhoods that aren't mentioned in guidebooks and a particularly good way to spot interesting-looking shops, pubs, and restaurants to circle back to later.
(Editing to add this; I hit the button too soon!)
What do these cities offer you, personally, as a traveler that can’t be easily found in other cities outside Germany?
Every city everywhere is different, though. Even if the cities are really close together and the differences are subtle, they're still there, and I find that really interesting. The accents or some local vocabulary might be different; there's probably some different food and/or drink specialty; most cities have at least one or two small, esoteric museums, and those are always varied. Again, it all comes down to what you're looking for, but I've been to several European cities (not just in Germany) where people were like, "Why would you want to go there? Tourists don't go there," but I've always enjoyed myself anyway.
I think you completely misunderstand me. Large German cities are largely devoid of culture, I'm not referring to traditional, contemporary, ancient, etc. but culture, period. The city centers are...
Anyway, it seems like you and I are looking for different things when we travel. My assumption is that what you're attracted to is what I'd think of as "traditional culture"
I think you completely misunderstand me. Large German cities are largely devoid of culture, I'm not referring to traditional, contemporary, ancient, etc. but culture, period. The city centers are all rushed post-WW2 construction, completely devoid of character. They're filled with the most pedestrian shopping outlets and department stores. There is nothing aesthetically or culinarily compelling to be found. Step outside of those centers and the architecture flourishes but you're now looking largely at bedroom neighborhoods with nothing of note to partake in.
I also love to sit in a city and just soak in the vibe but I'll admit that I do expect that to come with a side of definitive character and culture. There's reasons why large cities in France or Italy or the Balkans or the Nordic countries have a unique cultural feel to them that Germany just does not. One could go to a city museum, a zoo, a concert, a sporting event nearly anywhere else but what is it in Germany that makes it especially compelling? I'd personally argue: not much. This is a sentiment largely shared with the expat community here, maybe we're blind to it due to proximity but almost no one here goes to Cologne, Munich, Dueseldorf, and certainly not Frankfurt having come away feeling great about the experience.
In my opinion go to a big city that offers a unique experience in other countries but in Germany you're just getting generic cookie cutter.
Germans certainly have their own contemporary culture which is, again, something that I enjoy and love to take part in while living here but can not for a second grasp what about it would draw in a tourist from abroad. I did ask you what German culture is to you and find the inability to articulate it telling.
But hey, if you love Soccer and Ice Hockey it's a great place to find those things. I'm glad you like visiting here, it gives you a taste of what all us transplants have found to love. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the actual draw to tourists in the bigger metros here
Edit to respond to your edit: It seems like you are a very unique traveler in that the vast majority of travelers, myself included, need more than just subtle differences and vowel shifts to attract our time and money when touring. Most people just would not find what you seem to like fulfilling. I would love to experience the differences between two centuries old rivaling neighboring towns in the Italian countryside or get in tune with the hustle and bustle of Rotterdam while seeing amazing architecture but sitting in a cafe in downtown Frankfurt might as well be downtown Pheonix Arizona, it's all the same to me.
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I feel like I already have, but, yes, I agree with you that we will have to agree to disagree. Our definitions of "culture" seem incompatible, not...
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I feel like I already have, but, yes, I agree with you that we will have to agree to disagree. Our definitions of "culture" seem incompatible, not to mention our definitions of "definitive character". Or maybe I just enjoy places other people find boring. I'm totally okay with that. Makes it easier to find appealing places to go!
I'm with you on not understanding it either, my family is from Germany originally and my sister used to live there, so maybe I'm biased, but there hasn't been a German city that I haven't found...
I'm with you on not understanding it either, my family is from Germany originally and my sister used to live there, so maybe I'm biased, but there hasn't been a German city that I haven't found fun and interesting to be in.
Then again I haven't been to Frankfurt, but that's also widely known as the boring bank city anyway.
The advantage though is that you are less likely to end up with Doughnut cities like in the US.
the allies absolutely destroyed the major cities in the war which still leave a mark today and German city philosophy is that everything is in the city center making exploring cities dull as there's not much to find outside the center
The advantage though is that you are less likely to end up with Doughnut cities like in the US.
I could have been clearer in my comment but I love living in Germany for reasons like that but that doesn't equate to a great place to visit as a tourist. Also that's also a false dichotomy as...
I could have been clearer in my comment but I love living in Germany for reasons like that but that doesn't equate to a great place to visit as a tourist. Also that's also a false dichotomy as many other large cities outside of Germany are able to have multiple concentrated areas outside of the center while also avoiding the Doughnut effect. It's unfortunate when visiting world-famous cities like Munich or Cologne and discovering that there are no neighborhoods to explore because people just live there, there's not a whole lot of entertainment or culinary activity compared with the center
I visited Munich for a few days last year. My recommendations:
Englischer Garten: One of the largest parks in the world (even larger than Central Park in NYC). A great place to bring some food and beers for a picnic. The Eisbach river that runs through the park (which is beautiful to walk along in itself) has an artificial standing wave which the locals surf which is very entertaining to watch. Some regions of the park are also designated for nudists, which was a surprise to see away from a beach.
Tergensee day trip: Less than an hour by train is a quaint town situated next to a large, scenic lake. There are a lot of breweries here, however I recommend hiking about an hour uphill (it's worth it!) through the forest to Berggasthof Neureuth which is a restaurant situated on top of the mountain. They have great food, beer, and a truly stunning view. It's a great place to hang out for a few hours. It felt very Bavarian- there were even fluffy brown cows adorned with bells grazing in rolling green meadows. This didn't seem like it was on the radar of most tourists, so it was nice to get away from the crowds. Probably my favorite activity in Munich.
Mittenwald day trip: Mittenwald is most well known for the murals that adorn the outside of the buildings. The subject matter of the murals is a bit cheesy- rosy-cheeked idyllic farmers and bible stories- but the murals are so intricate and there are so many that they still make for an interesting sight, especially with the alps towering in the background. However, the most unique attraction here is the Leutaschklamm / Geisterklamm path, which is a series of suspended walkways over a large gorge with a waterfall. I just grabbed a video from Youtube which doesn't fully do it justice. At several points you are walking over a see-through metal suspended bridge and can see straight down for hundreds of meters. This will help you overcome your fear of heights if you have one. You can also access the alps from a cable car in the city. Mittenwald is definitely more on the touristy side, but I enjoyed the variety of different activities within walking distance.
Munich Residenz: Very cool art here if you're into classical art and ornate architecture. Just be warned that it is absolutely massive and a bit exhausting to get through it all.
Viktualienmarkt: A large market in that features some quality beer, food, coffee, etc.
It goes without saying that you have to visit the biergartens to order lots of beer, sausages, and pretzels. I visited around Oktoberfest (but didn't attend), so some of the biergartens featured bands playing traditional Bavarian music, which really sets the mood.
EDIT: Just remembered one more, make a quick stop at Asam Church. It's small, but one of the more beautiful church interiors that I've seen in Europe.
If I had more time then I would have visited Neuschwanstein Castle, which is probably the most popular day trip, although I'm glad that I prioritized the day trips listed above. It's a three hour train ride (one way) and packed with tourists, but it does look awesome.
Hope you have a great time!
I really enjoyed touring the Munich Residenz, which is a former royal palace. If you like art and/or museums, Alte Pinakothek is very much worth a visit. (Seeing Albrecht Durer's 1500 self-portrait in person alone was worth it for me.) My visit to Munich was fairly short, so I didn't get to see the other Pinakothek branches.
If your stay is long enough that you don't mind a day trip outside the city, a trip out to Andechs Monastery is really nice. You'll see some countryside, do some walking, and drink some great beer.
Sometimes there are surfers. The Deutsches Museum is very good if you're interested in technology.
I second the reccomendation of the Englischer Garten. Rent some bikes and you don't need to bring anything as there are multiple places to have a beer and some food.
I reccomend a trip to Dachau. It's not for everyone, it can be quite moving.
How long did Dachau take? Or better question, how much time should I allot to do it properly
Sorry for the delay. I'd give it half a day if you're staying in Munich. The train there takes half hour or so and we wandered around for a couple of hours inside.
One thing I didn't see anybody mention: climb up the tower of the church St. Peter (located near Marienplatz). It's the oldest church in Munich (nickname "Alter Peter" - "old Peter") and you have a wonderful view of Munich from the top, on a clear day you can even see the Alps.
The olympic tower makes for a nice view aswell! :)
I went there for work about 2 months ago. We stayed in Old Town which has a lot to walk around and see. We went into several churches and ate at any place we could find that seemed local. Then we took a train to Salzburg and toured a castle there and walked around. There’s no shortage of things to do!
It seems like you're set on Munich but I'll post this here for anyone else considering travel to Germany. I'm an American now living over two years in Germany, big cities in this counrty suck as tourist destinations. Two factors here: the allies absolutely destroyed the major cities in the war which still leave a mark today and German city philosophy is that everything is in the city center making exploring cities dull as there's not much to find outside the center. That and German culture doesn't lend itself to sight seeing. Don't get me wrong, I love Germany and love living here but major German cities wouldn't be high up on my list of places to visit as a tourist.
The best things to see in Germany are in the smaller towns and cities outside of the big destinations. That's where you'll find the old history and culture. So far, all of my favorite places in Germany are in smaller cities
Edit: As HarvyGuesso pointed out, Berlin is definitely an exception but as a world capital it is a completely unique city both historically and culturally in its own right on the world stage
I bow to your experience and fully understand your argument but my visit to Berlin on my honeymoon was one of the most culturally enriching experiences I could ever have hoped for. We stayed in Prenzlauer Berg and we're spoiled for choice when it comes to eating and drinking. We visited day spas and art galleries - Liquidrom and Hamburger Bahnhof, both repurposed train stations. The Stasi Museum was chilling and a brilliant act of preservation both of evidence and history. Teufelsberg, the Olympic stadium, and Grunewald will be repeatedky visited by us on our future visits. The cafe culture and evidence of a healthy work/life balance in the population made for a very relaxing atmosphere. The architecture throughout the city is fascinating and its public transport infrastructure makes it a pleasure to stroll around aimlessly. Konnopke's Imbiss is my heaven. Again, I can't speak for other German Cities but I found Berlin to be a wonderful and rich city to visit and I will be going back there as often as life allows.
I love that you had a great time in Berlin but that's unfortunately the exception that proves the rule. No other city in Germany, or maybe even Europe, is like Berlin so it's almost unfair to make the comparison
Piggybacking here to say that my trip to Constance and up the Rhine Valley was so incredibly beautiful and rewarding. If anyone is looking for inspiration to plan a trip, I recommend it.
I'd say it depends on what you like to do when you travel. Cologne is one of the biggest cities in Germany, and I'm heading back there for a third visit later this year. "Popular sentiment" seems to be that Frankfurt and Dusseldorf don't have that much to offer tourists, but I enjoyed both of those cities a lot. "Old history and culture" are great to take in, but, IMO, so is "current culture". I tend to like a mix of both when I'm traveling.
I’m genuinely curious now. What do these cities offer you, personally, as a traveler that can’t be easily found in other cities outside Germany?
I did refer to „old history“ and „culture“ as separate, I never mentioned „old culture.“ Aside from Fests, which outside of Oktoberfest not many foreigners would know about, what exactly is German culture to you? I did note in my comment that German culture does not lend itself well to tourists and by that I meant modern culture. Cuisine that, although good in its own right, completely lacks renown. Techno but that scene is nowhere near as sophisticated as in Berlin. Biergartens? Great but as an international tour destination? You’re obviously seeing something that I’m not
Except that culture and history are so closely connected. Anyway, it seems like you and I are looking for different things when we travel. My assumption is that what you're attracted to is what I'd think of as "traditional culture". I like that, too, although it can end up being a little "prepackaged" and overly-touristy and/or cheesy (which can be appealing in its own right, but in fairly small doses), so you sometimes have to be careful and do some research beforehand.
However, I also like hanging out in a place and, for lack of a better term, just soaking in its "vibe". Sitting in a cafe, surrounded by conversations in languages I don't speak (or at least don't speak much of), eating a pastry I can't get at home, and watching the city go by on the sidwalk outside -- to me, that's soaking up elements of contemporary culture, too, just watching everyday life happen.
Almost every large-ish city has a city museum, where there's usually an interesting combination of historical and contemporary exhibits. Another part of experiencing current culture is visiting places or attending events that locals go to, like a zoo or seeing a concert or sporting event. I'm hoping to catch a football (soccer) and/or ice hockey game in Germany this fall, in fact.
I also really like having lots of stuff in the city center, because I almost never rent a car and like there being a lot of things accessible on foot. I enjoy riding around on public transit, though, too. It's a nice way to see neighborhoods that aren't mentioned in guidebooks and a particularly good way to spot interesting-looking shops, pubs, and restaurants to circle back to later.
(Editing to add this; I hit the button too soon!)
Every city everywhere is different, though. Even if the cities are really close together and the differences are subtle, they're still there, and I find that really interesting. The accents or some local vocabulary might be different; there's probably some different food and/or drink specialty; most cities have at least one or two small, esoteric museums, and those are always varied. Again, it all comes down to what you're looking for, but I've been to several European cities (not just in Germany) where people were like, "Why would you want to go there? Tourists don't go there," but I've always enjoyed myself anyway.
I think you completely misunderstand me. Large German cities are largely devoid of culture, I'm not referring to traditional, contemporary, ancient, etc. but culture, period. The city centers are all rushed post-WW2 construction, completely devoid of character. They're filled with the most pedestrian shopping outlets and department stores. There is nothing aesthetically or culinarily compelling to be found. Step outside of those centers and the architecture flourishes but you're now looking largely at bedroom neighborhoods with nothing of note to partake in.
I also love to sit in a city and just soak in the vibe but I'll admit that I do expect that to come with a side of definitive character and culture. There's reasons why large cities in France or Italy or the Balkans or the Nordic countries have a unique cultural feel to them that Germany just does not. One could go to a city museum, a zoo, a concert, a sporting event nearly anywhere else but what is it in Germany that makes it especially compelling? I'd personally argue: not much. This is a sentiment largely shared with the expat community here, maybe we're blind to it due to proximity but almost no one here goes to Cologne, Munich, Dueseldorf, and certainly not Frankfurt having come away feeling great about the experience.
In my opinion go to a big city that offers a unique experience in other countries but in Germany you're just getting generic cookie cutter.
Germans certainly have their own contemporary culture which is, again, something that I enjoy and love to take part in while living here but can not for a second grasp what about it would draw in a tourist from abroad. I did ask you what German culture is to you and find the inability to articulate it telling.
But hey, if you love Soccer and Ice Hockey it's a great place to find those things. I'm glad you like visiting here, it gives you a taste of what all us transplants have found to love. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the actual draw to tourists in the bigger metros here
Edit to respond to your edit: It seems like you are a very unique traveler in that the vast majority of travelers, myself included, need more than just subtle differences and vowel shifts to attract our time and money when touring. Most people just would not find what you seem to like fulfilling. I would love to experience the differences between two centuries old rivaling neighboring towns in the Italian countryside or get in tune with the hustle and bustle of Rotterdam while seeing amazing architecture but sitting in a cafe in downtown Frankfurt might as well be downtown Pheonix Arizona, it's all the same to me.
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I feel like I already have, but, yes, I agree with you that we will have to agree to disagree. Our definitions of "culture" seem incompatible, not to mention our definitions of "definitive character". Or maybe I just enjoy places other people find boring. I'm totally okay with that. Makes it easier to find appealing places to go!
I'm with you on not understanding it either, my family is from Germany originally and my sister used to live there, so maybe I'm biased, but there hasn't been a German city that I haven't found fun and interesting to be in.
Then again I haven't been to Frankfurt, but that's also widely known as the boring bank city anyway.
The advantage though is that you are less likely to end up with Doughnut cities like in the US.
I could have been clearer in my comment but I love living in Germany for reasons like that but that doesn't equate to a great place to visit as a tourist. Also that's also a false dichotomy as many other large cities outside of Germany are able to have multiple concentrated areas outside of the center while also avoiding the Doughnut effect. It's unfortunate when visiting world-famous cities like Munich or Cologne and discovering that there are no neighborhoods to explore because people just live there, there's not a whole lot of entertainment or culinary activity compared with the center
There is also some lovely cycling in the area around Munich.