It feels weird considering tagging a comment as noise that is just a personal opinion, since the tag feels pretty derogatory and noise is meant for more meaningless "LOL!" type comments. offtopic...
It feels weird considering tagging a comment as noise that is just a personal opinion, since the tag feels pretty derogatory and noise is meant for more meaningless "LOL!" type comments. offtopic doesn't really fit either since the comment is about the subject of the submission (my comment here is probably offtopic though). Not only that but I actually appreciate and share the sentiment expressed in the comment and am interested in what other people personally think about the submission as well so using either tag still feels oddly like an undeserved punishment for @Parliament that might discourage other people from expressing their opinions on the matter. :/
I suppose if you look at tagging from a purely "I tagged it that way to facilitate potential filtering for others" aspect it helps with the weird feeling since not everyone will care about other peoples' opinions on things and so will want to filter them out... but it still feels wrong somehow.
So that begs the question; Should we add a comment tag for opinion since none of the others really apply here but some people will probably still want a way to filter those type of comments out?
Yea, I was just about to tag a comment in a different thread as "joke" and couldn't bring myself to do it because it subtly feels like being a dick. On reddit, I would have downvoted it but the...
Yea, I was just about to tag a comment in a different thread as "joke" and couldn't bring myself to do it because it subtly feels like being a dick. On reddit, I would have downvoted it but the tag feels way more personal, way more confrontational. And ultimately, a well-tagged top comment is still a top comment. Not having downvotes is the one thing about tildes that I'm not sure about. They kinda serve a purpose.
Like I said, I'd like to talk about this more tomorrow, but I think it's worth noting that downvoting someone at this point would have probably felt pretty dick-ish too. I think it's mostly...
Like I said, I'd like to talk about this more tomorrow, but I think it's worth noting that downvoting someone at this point would have probably felt pretty dick-ish too. I think it's mostly related to how small the group of people is right now, so any sort of negative action feels very personal than it would with a larger community.
I think this thread inspires some interesting philosophical questions about what kind of community ~ should be. How do we strike a balance between serious, in-depth discussion and lighthearted...
I think this thread inspires some interesting philosophical questions about what kind of community ~ should be. How do we strike a balance between serious, in-depth discussion and lighthearted entertainment? Do we always want to feel like we're walking on eggshells here?
Sure, but unfortunately they are rarely ever used for it. Downvotes are mostly an "I disagree and want to suppress this opinion" button. And when it comes to the new queue they are way way way too...
They kinda serve a purpose.
Sure, but unfortunately they are rarely ever used for it. Downvotes are mostly an "I disagree and want to suppress this opinion" button. And when it comes to the new queue they are way way way too powerful, abused by people submitting their own content and often kill many quality submissions before they have a chance to be seen as a result.
Reports and tagging ideally can serve the same purpose as downvotes were intended to without the same potential for abuse since they are auditable. Whereas tracking every downvote and being able to audit them is virtually impossible at scale and probably not a good idea anyways.
What about a "low-effort" or similar tag? In addition to an "opinion" tag. This would be a comment that isn't necessarily noise, off-topic, a joke, trolling, or flaming but still falls below a...
What about a "low-effort" or similar tag? In addition to an "opinion" tag. This would be a comment that isn't necessarily noise, off-topic, a joke, trolling, or flaming but still falls below a perceived standard of quality allowing users to browse ~ with that content filtered out. Thoughts, @Deimos?
This leads me to a question though - how do we prevent abuse of the tagging system that could be filtering acceptable content before those who want to avoid the "low-effort" content can pass their own judgment? The users that filter would theoretically be relying on the users that don't filter (or the users that initially apply a tag) to determine filtered content. Something about that seems counter-intuitive to me, but I see no way around it (yet).
And how do we contend with varying standards of what "low-effort" entails? Is that just the reality users will have to accept when electing to filter tagged comments? Apologies if this has already been brainstormed, but could we allow users to filter content based on a tag threshold/strength? So once this place grows, 1-2 tags (or however many a user chooses) aren't sufficient to filter.
Another question: what if a tag generated a notification to the tagged user? Say /u/cfabbro tagged my comment "low-effort", then I get a notification and the chance to amend my comment. One step further, what if my edit sent a notification to /u/cfabbro that my comment changed and asked them if the "low-effort" tag was still appropriate? I could see the benefit of such a feedback loop. Also, everything on /u/cfabbro's end would occur anonymously and privately.
I think this is a good topic with some interesting aspects that we should talk through more widely (not hidden in an Arrested Development trailer comments). Let's do it for the daily ~tildes...
I think this is a good topic with some interesting aspects that we should talk through more widely (not hidden in an Arrested Development trailer comments). Let's do it for the daily ~tildes discussion tomorrow, I'll make the post in the morning so we can talk about it (or someone else can, if they want to get started on it earlier).
I think the core thing to cover is something like "why does tagging a comment feel like a rude thing to do, and how can we improve that?", but the idea of an "opinion" tag is probably an interesting side part as well.
For making it easier for others to filter out certain types, if they so desire. Like my comment about the tags is offtopic since it's a meta discussion and not everyone will want to see that. When...
For making it easier for others to filter out certain types, if they so desire. Like my comment about the tags is offtopic since it's a meta discussion and not everyone will want to see that.
When there are only 1-20 comments per submission it's not a problem but when we get into the several hundred comments per submission range, having tags will be important IMO.
Also FWIW, my comment can generate a lot of discussion because it touches upon the sentiments of a majority of the show's fans. We want the best for AD, were underwhelmed with season 4, and are...
Also FWIW, my comment can generate a lot of discussion because it touches upon the sentiments of a majority of the show's fans. We want the best for AD, were underwhelmed with season 4, and are now cautiously excited about season 5.
Yeah, I see the value of comments like it, hence my "but I actually appreciate and share the sentiment expressed in the comment and am interested in what other people personally think about the...
Yeah, I see the value of comments like it, hence my "but I actually appreciate and share the sentiment expressed in the comment and am interested in what other people personally think about the submission as well". But I also see the value of potentially tagging things that are opinions. <shrug>
*phew* Alright, I'm glad. I really didn't want to upset you or make you feel bad, I just thought it was a conversation worth having about tags since that all ran through my head when I considered...
*phew* Alright, I'm glad. I really didn't want to upset you or make you feel bad, I just thought it was a conversation worth having about tags since that all ran through my head when I considered using one on your comment, even though I enjoyed it. :(
p.s. feel free to tag my original comment as offtopic, because it is... ;)
I would never tag that comment off-topic because any thread can be inspiration for meta discussion right now, and you facilitated it here. Clearly a discussion we needed to have.
I would never tag that comment off-topic because any thread can be inspiration for meta discussion right now, and you facilitated it here. Clearly a discussion we needed to have.
I'm cautiously excited.
It feels weird considering tagging a comment as
noisethat is just a personal opinion, since the tag feels pretty derogatory andnoiseis meant for more meaningless "LOL!" type comments.offtopicdoesn't really fit either since the comment is about the subject of the submission (my comment here is probably offtopic though). Not only that but I actually appreciate and share the sentiment expressed in the comment and am interested in what other people personally think about the submission as well so using either tag still feels oddly like an undeserved punishment for @Parliament that might discourage other people from expressing their opinions on the matter. :/I suppose if you look at tagging from a purely "I tagged it that way to facilitate potential filtering for others" aspect it helps with the weird feeling since not everyone will care about other peoples' opinions on things and so will want to filter them out... but it still feels wrong somehow.
So that begs the question; Should we add a comment tag for
opinionsince none of the others really apply here but some people will probably still want a way to filter those type of comments out?Yea, I was just about to tag a comment in a different thread as "joke" and couldn't bring myself to do it because it subtly feels like being a dick. On reddit, I would have downvoted it but the tag feels way more personal, way more confrontational. And ultimately, a well-tagged top comment is still a top comment. Not having downvotes is the one thing about tildes that I'm not sure about. They kinda serve a purpose.
Like I said, I'd like to talk about this more tomorrow, but I think it's worth noting that downvoting someone at this point would have probably felt pretty dick-ish too. I think it's mostly related to how small the group of people is right now, so any sort of negative action feels very personal than it would with a larger community.
I think this thread inspires some interesting philosophical questions about what kind of community ~ should be. How do we strike a balance between serious, in-depth discussion and lighthearted entertainment? Do we always want to feel like we're walking on eggshells here?
Sure, but unfortunately they are rarely ever used for it. Downvotes are mostly an "I disagree and want to suppress this opinion" button. And when it comes to the new queue they are way way way too powerful, abused by people submitting their own content and often kill many quality submissions before they have a chance to be seen as a result.
Reports and tagging ideally can serve the same purpose as downvotes were intended to without the same potential for abuse since they are auditable. Whereas tracking every downvote and being able to audit them is virtually impossible at scale and probably not a good idea anyways.
What about a "low-effort" or similar tag? In addition to an "opinion" tag. This would be a comment that isn't necessarily noise, off-topic, a joke, trolling, or flaming but still falls below a perceived standard of quality allowing users to browse ~ with that content filtered out. Thoughts, @Deimos?
This leads me to a question though - how do we prevent abuse of the tagging system that could be filtering acceptable content before those who want to avoid the "low-effort" content can pass their own judgment? The users that filter would theoretically be relying on the users that don't filter (or the users that initially apply a tag) to determine filtered content. Something about that seems counter-intuitive to me, but I see no way around it (yet).
And how do we contend with varying standards of what "low-effort" entails? Is that just the reality users will have to accept when electing to filter tagged comments? Apologies if this has already been brainstormed, but could we allow users to filter content based on a tag threshold/strength? So once this place grows, 1-2 tags (or however many a user chooses) aren't sufficient to filter.
Another question: what if a tag generated a notification to the tagged user? Say /u/cfabbro tagged my comment "low-effort", then I get a notification and the chance to amend my comment. One step further, what if my edit sent a notification to /u/cfabbro that my comment changed and asked them if the "low-effort" tag was still appropriate? I could see the benefit of such a feedback loop. Also, everything on /u/cfabbro's end would occur anonymously and privately.
J spitballing here.
I think this is a good topic with some interesting aspects that we should talk through more widely (not hidden in an Arrested Development trailer comments). Let's do it for the daily ~tildes discussion tomorrow, I'll make the post in the morning so we can talk about it (or someone else can, if they want to get started on it earlier).
I think the core thing to cover is something like "why does tagging a comment feel like a rude thing to do, and how can we improve that?", but the idea of an "opinion" tag is probably an interesting side part as well.
Why not just leave it untagged and leave tags for explicit or extreme cases?
For making it easier for others to filter out certain types, if they so desire. Like my comment about the tags is offtopic since it's a meta discussion and not everyone will want to see that.
When there are only 1-20 comments per submission it's not a problem but when we get into the several hundred comments per submission range, having tags will be important IMO.
Well now I feel discouraged. Do we have a tag for that yet?
Sorry. :(
Also FWIW, my comment can generate a lot of discussion because it touches upon the sentiments of a majority of the show's fans. We want the best for AD, were underwhelmed with season 4, and are now cautiously excited about season 5.
Yeah, I see the value of comments like it, hence my "but I actually appreciate and share the sentiment expressed in the comment and am interested in what other people personally think about the submission as well". But I also see the value of potentially tagging things that are opinions. <shrug>
We good, /u/cfabbro.
*phew* Alright, I'm glad. I really didn't want to upset you or make you feel bad, I just thought it was a conversation worth having about tags since that all ran through my head when I considered using one on your comment, even though I enjoyed it. :(
p.s. feel free to tag my original comment as offtopic, because it is... ;)
I would never tag that comment off-topic because any thread can be inspiration for meta discussion right now, and you facilitated it here. Clearly a discussion we needed to have.