My not so nice thoughts on Battlestar Galactica
I watched the 2003 miniseries which I thought was decent enough. It certainly piqued my interest, so I went into the show itself with an open mind and kind of excited that I had a nice, long sci-fi series to get into.. but.. I'm now solidly underway with season 1, a lot of it falls totally flat. I just finished episode 5 and while it's not the worst show I've ever watched, it certainly isn't great either and I have to say I don't understand why this show is praised. It feels really dated.
There are some truly awful scenes where it feels like I'm being preached to, like "remember to go in for your breast cancer screening!" and "prisoners aren't slaves!" and the scene from this episode where the president appears on the Galactica just to tell the commander "ackshually 45000 people are more important than just 1!" as though it's some deep philosophy, and then he changes his mind off of that, but like, his character really isn't dumb enough to not have already considered the morality of the situation. He should have perfectly well realized that they'd expended half of their fuel reserve searching for the downed pilot, and that's more than they can afford. He is not stupid, but the writing certainly can be.
There are also a ton of cliches and cheap story beats like fake-outs, cliff-hangers, characters that could solve all their problems if they simply communicated, dundundun dunnn moments with fabricated tension, not to mention the amount of halfway meaningless filler. It's a shame because the lore and overarching plot is interesting, but when every episode has so much pointless conflict in them that always gets resolved 10 minutes later, it starts to really drag. The episodes are self-contained and I get that, but I mean most of it is to the point that it's borderline a soap opera.
And it's not even filmed or directed well or anything else to make up for it. The desaturated colours are depressing as fuck, there is no cinematography to speak of, the special effects are (understandably) very cheap, everything is truly ugly which while I understand that's the point, it just detracts even more. The lighting is also inconsistent between some scenes, and the fight choreography is honestly laughable. You also have shoddy camera work and obnoxious, never ending close-ups of every actor's face - I have seen all of their pores by now, thank you very much. And omg why are they so obsessed with wide shots of the ships and then snap zooming not once, but twice, every time!!
Also, variations of the word "frak" is just so grating but I'm nitpicking at this point lol
I apologize to any fans of the show because this turned into a bit of a rant, but goddamn.. I'm kind of grasping at straws to find things I actually like about BSG. Maybe it's because it's a network production? Perhaps I'm too young to watch and truly appreciate it/its era of American network TV? Like the only of these kinds of shows we had in my country that I watched when they were current was things like Friends, Monk, Desperate Housewives etc., so I missed out on all of these supposedly great shows back then (I was only 11 years old when BSG started airing). I really love some of the other things from the 00's that I've watched much later on though, but those were cable shows like The Wire, so it's not just because it's from the 00's.
Anyway, all of the above reasons (and more) are why I usually stay far away from network shows with 20-episode seasons, but I thought BSG was going to be different because it's my impression that it has a really good reputation? Like I said in the beginning, the miniseries was decent so I'm not sure what changed between it and season 1? I think I'm gonna demote it to a background show unless the next few episodes pick up a bit. Should I keep going? Does it get better after season 1?
What you’re describing is really just episodic television. These episodes were released weekly, with the expectation that the viewers would have a lot of speculative water cooler discussion about them. If you binge it in one go it’s going to drag because so much of the writing is meant to catch you up and introduce things slowly so people can keep up.
The special effects stuff is just like, it’s a mid 2000s show on a barely profitable sci-fi channel series man. I don’t know what you want from it.
This is so true. I can't believe how many shows my older brother loved back in the day that I couldn't get into simply because "the effects" were bad. Young me didn't realize they had a shit budget.
Back in the day these were the effects you got for the most part, I’m not sure how much throwing money around made so much difference. Haven’t rewatched in a few years but most of the space scenes, along with the handheld jumpycam effect, on the last viewing were pretty sold. It could be regressive enjoyment of the time clouding my judgement.
If you want sci-fi effects that stand the test of time go watch Kubrick’s 2001 again. Still so bloody good after all these years.
Have you watched BSG Razor? It’s bite sized and you might enjoy that.
Yeah I guess episodic television really is not something I can get into at all. Definitely going to be a criteria I will look for in the future when considering what to watch.
I didn't intend to come off in a way that says I expected a 00's show to have good CGI - it's clear that it doesn't have the budget and I already said that in my post?
To reiterate my point: there are shows out there that, while lacking in one aspect, at least make up for it in another aspect by for example being pretty to look at, but BSG doesn't even do that.
BSG: It has its flaws. Still deserves its cult following though. It was EXCITING television trying to figure out who was/wasn't a cylon.
TNG: Unless you've watched s2e9 "The Measure of a Man" you're opinion simply doesn't matter.
I concur. If you're only going to watch one episode of TNG, that would be it.
I will try that, sure! Sounds like I can watch it without watching any of the previous episodes?
Tagging @LookAtTheName
That was the nature of TV back then. You might not catch all the nuance, but they had 'previously on' for a reason for many of these shows.
Just watched it. That's one of the oldest tv episodes I've ever seen so that was kind of fun, it felt almost like a stage play. Pretty interesting concepts too, so thanks for recommending it!
It's a 21-year-old show! It would be weird if it felt completely natural to our time.
BSG is one of my favorite shows of all time.
It does get better and more interesting, but I am not sure if you will enjoy it either way. I loved it from the get go.
BSG will always be one of my favorite shows. I loved the world building and politics and the overall story even if some of the characters could be annoying.
I always remember one of the comments made by Captain Adama about the difference between the military and the police:
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
Listen, I loved BSG at the time but I’ll tell you right now: if you aren’t feeling Season 1 you really don’t need to bother finishing out the series. Season 1 is still, in my opinion, the show at its absolute best, so if you aren’t feeling it now… well, it ain’t getting any better. People often cite “33” as one of the best episodes and it’s literally the first one after the miniseries. I’m not kidding when I say it’s all downhill from there. The series has its moments, right up until the end, where it can really shine, and there were some great twists and turns along the way, but again: if you can’t get into the first season, you probably aren’t going to enjoy the rest. There’s no shame in bowing out now and saving yourself the time. And I say this as a fan.
There are a few truly great moments in the show. The opening episode 33 is absolutely brilliant.
Spoiler for S3E4
The Galactica jumping into New Caprica's atmosphere is one of the greatest moments of sci-fi television not just in BSG but ever.
I'm not sure the few great moments justify the rest of the time you'd have to put into it.
Overall I don't particularly disagree with you. It does look dated but that's not really it's fault. It looked fresh and exciting at the time, I promise. The SFX were amazing for TV back then, especially on the Sci-Fi channel. As for the moralising, Ron Moore loves to preach on his shows, he did the same on Star Trek although as someone else was editing his scripts it was rather more toned down there. That bit gets worse, unfortunately.
This is not an accident, and it's a thing which does actually get a payoff at the end. House MD did the same in it's final season, leading to one of the best closing shots I've ever seen. House did it better. (btw if you're after a long-running network show that is good and ends well, House is my favourite of the Sherlock Holmes adaptations by a long way)
If you think BSG is bad now just wait until you get to the end. By then I was only watching because I'd invested so much time I wanted a payoff/ending. No spoilers on how satisfactorily that happens..
Mixing HTML and markdown causes some issues with the parser. If you put linebreaks between the HTML and markdown elements it'll fix it. E.g.
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Ah, good to know. Thanks, and fixed!
I mean, I won't lie, if the opening episode is what counts as brilliant then that's about enough reason for not continuing with the show 😅
Wait so in terms of my problems with it, it actually gets worse?
Naa, I really liked 33. It's one of my favourite examples of a literal ticking clock, and I think pulled off very well. It's not perfect but it's so, so tense.
As for the rest, the visual style stays the same, but Moore's preachiness gets worse, as does his use of the idiot plot. Some characters get more annoying. Some mature into being more badass. Frak does not stop being annoying but it's hard to swear on American tv so I do try to be understanding on that front. You can show the slaughter of billions of people, enslavement and torture and so on but can you say fuck? Can you fuck.
Honestly, if you're not into it early you won't be into it later. I would suggest you watch something else. There's basically no good sci-fi on TV so you're a bit short on options on that front. That's one reason I mostly only read sci-fi and watch fantasy.
I mean I guess the first episode was the best one so far, I'll certainly give you that it pulled off the tension well too. About the idiot plot.. that is probably the absolute worst thing a writer can do in my opinion, like it just hurts me inside lol
This is more or less the exact judgement that I was looking for, thank you!
Well, no currently running space scifi. The Expanse is stellar.
I very much disagree on that, the books are weak and the TV adaptation worse - it only looks good in comparison to the absolute dross of Star Trek which is about the only other space action funtimes we get on TV. That said, I am glad you are enjoying it. My opinion is just that, my opinion.
Severance is the only really great sci-fi TV I can think of. Perhaps some of the early episodes of Black Mirror too.
Severance is a fantastic show, but if we're being strict with the topic at hand, not space sci-fi.
Nevertheless, I can't recommend Severance enough either. It's such an incredibly well put together mystery. If you look at sci-fi as a whole then yes, I agree with you.
It gets better. It gets a LOT better. And then about half way through season 3 it gets way way worse.
Is that when they are on the mud world? I stopped watching there. It was so depressing. Or maybe just after that, when they're putting traitors out of airlocks. It was like, what are we doing here?
I remember the end of season 1, the surprise moment when someone shoots someone else, I was drinking a cup of tea and the shock of the shooting caused me to spill tea all over myself. Season 1 and 2 were okay iirc.
My wife and I started watching it together because posts about shipping House and Wilson keep popping up on Tumblr recently (which tbh, they don't even have to stretch much for that). We're really enjoying it. I doubt the medical side is very accurate, and the human drama can be pretty clunky, but it's still a really enjoyable show to watch together and it's very fun to make fun of in its cheesier bits. Weird mix of emotions as a chronically ill person sometimes but honestly less negative than I expected.
Edit: also I knew it was a Sherlock Holmes adaptation but I only just now got the House/Holmes pun.
Excellent, I'm glad you're enjoying it. I really liked the show and rewatched it a few years ago during night feeds with my kid and it still held up.
Also I'm not sure what country you're from but just in case you weren't aware, I should point out that Hugh Laurie does not sound like Dr House in real life (really only as an excuse to link to some excellent comedy)
Edit: it's not lupus.
Oh yeah I've watched some Blackadder and he's hilarious in that. Americans are sometimes too easily impressed by Brits doing American accents but Laurie is genuinely impressive, it's like the whole shape of his mouth changes.
Keeping it on topic, as a Brit my flabbers were gasted learning that Jamie Bamber was British! Absolutely seamless accent.
I tend to agree with your criticism of BSG, but I take umbrage at the shade to Desperate Housewives. It's a hilarious parody of soap operas that never gets the credit it deserves.
In my opinion BSG actually gets much worse as it goes on, and becomes nearly unwatchable sometime during season 3. My understanding is that there was no planned arc for the entire series, they just sort of wrote as they went, so set-ups and payoffs weren't satisfying and revelations didn't tend to make a lot of sense.
I ended up watching the whole thing anyway, and it doesn't get better. Caprica starts off appearing to have a little more potential, but drops off even more rapidly.
It’s worse than that. Over the course of the series the producers kept insisting that they had an overall arc plotted out, and that they knew where the story was headed. It turned out that they were just winging it.
I still liked it up until the last 20 minutes of the series finale.
They didn't have a plan. And I remember seeing a little documentary where Ron D Moore kind of realized this too, and he talked about how they didn't have a clue on how to end the show.
And then one day he got an epiphany that the show has always been about the characters, not the mystery, and that the finale should just focus on that too and ignore the rest. He tried to sell this as if it was some kind of genius idea.
Caprica, however, has a fantastic soundtrack (so does BSG but BSG's is often praised and Caprica's is way overlooked imo)
Both were soundtracked by the excellent Bear McCreary
As was the new God of War series.
Yeah but I’m not really sure how much of the “big budget” stuff is him specifically. Like I’ve heard that basically anything with Hans Zimmer’s name on it now is more like Hans Zimmer’s team of juniors to develop broad themes he’s workshopping with them.
That doesn’t really take away from his own input since that is it’s own sort of creativity, but I think it ends up being a bit less distinctive and not bear as much of a “signature style” as a result.
Oh I didn't mean to say anything in particular about Desperate Housewives, I wasn't comparing it like that, sorry! I was just mentioning it as the type of American shows that my country's TV licensed - appealing to the broadest audience possible.
That's very unfortunate that it doesn't get better, but thanks for sparing me the trouble of attempting to force myself to get into it then. And about Caprica, it felt so good in the 2003 version, and then in season 1 it's basically just become New York or something lol, when they're in that restaurant's shelter. Very jarring.
I really liked the miniseries and the first season or so but by the end of the show I was very unhappy with it too. I did not mind it was cheap (if you think BSG is cheap do not watch the sci fi dune mini series) but they set up expectations for a big plot that never happens. They also sort of run out of ideas and eventually write themselves into a corner.
My spoilery list of complaints. Keep in mind I have not touched the franchise in a very long time, so I might be completely wrong in some of these:
There is no plan. They spend a couple minutes every episodes telling you the cylons have a plan. There is a movie called "the plan". There is no plan. The cylons are just winging it throughout the series
The cylons are what exactly? In the first couple of episodes they set up the cylons as some sort of robotic collective that rebelled against the humans, waged war against them, lost (i think), and then reappeared years later with better robots and strong enough to destroy 99% of humanity in one go. By the second season they are a bunch of clones of 3-4 people and the metal robots have basically dissapeared. By the last season the clones do not matter anymore and there are only one of each. And one of them is very angry/sad.
Balthar is too many things. There are like 3-4 characters that have any sort of arc and change through the series. Balthar has at least one arc every season. Goes from petty egotistical scientist who enabled the attack from the cylons, to immigrant from an impoverished colony, to crappy politician, to messiah, etc. The actor does fine but it looks like they were trying too hard to keep him relevant.
Problems get solved forever. There is an episode where they discuss running out of food, one for medicines, etc. Once they get solved they are never a problem, ever. Clothes are always in pristine conditions, there is lots of clean paper to write stuff on, etc.
The show tries very hard to make Adama and the tough but kind sort of leader of humanity but at the same time have a miniature version of civilian politics and it does not really work, specially when they focus on the politics.
I don't watch series anymore but from what I hear there are better space shows. If someone want to check of BSG I would recommend the 33' miniseries and maybe the first season.
I could never finish it, so I agree. But the show was a giant leap forward at the time it was released. The miniseries released in 2003. That's the same year Farscape wrapped, and that show used puppets.
Battlestar Galactica and Firefly revolutionized sci-fi in 2003-2004.
I mean, this is at the same time as The King of Queens, Frasier, Will & Grace, ER and Friends were ratings winners. Those shows all feel extremely outdated today too.
Didn't JAG have high ratings around this time or slightly before?
When you put it like that, I suppose The Wire (and Sopranos?) is an outlier - like, extremely so - when comparing shows from back then!
Although I understand the reasoning, the puppets in Farscape are absolutely delightful. Even then, TV-grade CGI was already an established practice. Made and pupeteered by the Jim Henson Company, the puppets were an artistic choice, and quite possibly more cumbersome and expensive than CGI.
An adult series with puppets was almost as odd back then as it is today.
Oh, I definitely agree. To their credit, they leaned into the "Hey, this is a science fiction show with Muppets" thing, and that show captured my imagination like few others.
What I meant was it seems like the end of an era. Farscape was just so physical. Puppets, elaborate makeup, detailed sets that the actors actually walked through. Even the ship was a biological entity.
Battlestar Galactica just sort of came along and changed all that.
I tried BSG in a DVD boxset way back, and while I wasn't as annoyed by the first season as you seemed to be, I did give up on it after that. You see, I like characters behaving rationally, and having their own reasons for the actions they take even if those reasons are heavily tied up in their emotional states, traumas, etc. Something I can't stand is the story forcing a return to the status quo, or a happy ending, or a tragic ending, simply because that's the tone they wanted to go with even if it would resolve a whole lot of plot points. So:
Battlestar also killed Stargate.....because SG tried copying their edgelord angst for SGU, and failed miserably.
Well duly noted that I shouldn't bother with TNG! I actually randomly watched one of the movies, Star Trek: First Contact, and liked it, but if the show is similar to BSG..
Anyway thank you for your brief explanation of tv in this era! Instantly it makes sense to me why people are into this show..! I definitely was not aware of the historical context, but that makes so much sense to the extent that you've blown my mind a little bit.
Maybe it's that Star Wars phenomenon? Or I think maybe it's Seinfeld that is used as an example of it often - that younger people (me) have watched a million derivatives already, so when you go back to the original that was influential to everything that followed, it actually feels rather primitive because yeah, you've had your fill of whatever it is that it did that was groundbreaking at the time. Knowing this about BSG probably isn't enough to actually make me get into the show itself but it definitely makes me understand and appreciate what it's doing a lot more.
I watched The Expanse two years ago and we can definitely agree that it's the superior show - even though that's also a show that sadly didn't fully grab me, but it's a 6/10 for me. It's mostly the later seasons' family terrorism drama that dragged it down for me a lot but yeah let's not go into a whole other discussion here haha
I agree with most of your complaints about BSG, but I really loved TNG. The big differences to me:
TNG is a lot more optimistic. The tone of TNG doesn't shy away from being silly or campy when called for, which I love. The conflicts tend not to stem from malice or "evil" but from miscommunications, natural phenomena, or understandable conflicts of interest, and are usually resolved through empathy, diplomacy, or discovery. That's a broad brush and there are a ton of counter examples, but generally I leave the show feeling hopeful for humanity, which I didn't feel about BSG.
BSG seems to be aiming for an overarching storyline but not doing it well, whereas that's never really what TNG was aiming for. The storylines in TNG mostly wrap up well, just quickly, after a handful of episodes at most. The storylines in BSG are much longer, but don't wrap up in a satisfying way. That's completely subjective, of course, but to me that makes a big difference.
TNG doesn't have such a narrow focus, so every episode feels really different. Some of them are absolute masterpieces, some are just campy fun. I found BSG to be a lot more repetitive with twists.
Spoilers in case you do decide to keep watching
After a certain point it's like, Jesus who isn't a frakking cylon??They're very different shows.
WRT your spoiler: I think that was the point. It's been awhile since I watched BSG, but I remember loving it.
I think we could comfortably lose about 30% of TNG episodes. That bottom chunk isn't all terrible, but I got the impression they just needed to fill out some of the seasons. I appreciate that TV shows these days are given more flexibility to decide how much content they can produce.
The Expanse is a 6/10 and you don't like BSG? Maybe SciFi is not the genre for you.
Do not let people dissuade you from TNG based on BSG. BSG feels like turn of the century camp to me and I didn't really like it.
TNG on the other hand is as relevant (more?) relevant today than ever. Today whole movies are made to discuss social issues that TNG tackled in ~40 mins. Topics covered by TNG in the 80's that are still contentious today:
And over all it is positive. Rather than getting dark and gritty it is a colorful world. Capitalism is considered a failed experiment. Conflicts are resolved through diplomacy and mutual understanding as much as possible.
It's a show I can watch and feel good. People are recognized for their competence and expertise. There are story arcs but each episode is standalone. Some are campy fun adventures to break up the heavier stuff.
It might align with your tastes and I'm not saying anyone needs to watch it. But if someone is curious I'd recommend giving it a spin. People recommend skipping season 1 because it's a bit more off the rails and weird. I didn't and it still hooked me, but if you don't like the first episodes try skipping to S1E1.
It's perhaps the most impactful piece of media I've ever watched. Some books and movies have blown my mind in interesting ways. But TNG changed the future I want to believe in.
I kinda disagree with the poster above about TNG. Personally, Deep Space Nine is my favorite Star Srek, but it's somewhat similar in tone to BSG, which makes sense because Ronald D. Moore was executive producer and a prominent writer on both.
TNG is a much different show to both of those though, in Tone, Writing, Characterization, and structure.
TNG is almost entirely an episodic show. There are small elements that carry over from episode to episode, but most episodes have nothing to do with the other ones, they're self contained stories outside of a handful of two-parters.
TNG's writing tends towards optimism, while the other two tend toward pessimism. BSG and DS9 are very, very character focused, while TNG is more plot focused, and much of the drama of BSG and DS9 comes from interpersonal conflict within the main cast, while TNG's cast are basically all friends who have no major issues with one another, and the conflict comes externally.
I wouldn't write off TNG just because you don't like BSG. Hell I wouldn't even write off DS9, but out of the two, DS9 is definitely a lot more similar.
I feel like season 3 of the Expanse was the pinnacle, and the first 3 seasons were definitely the better of the two halves.
As far as Battlestar goes, I feel like episode 5 is a bit too early to give up. The show isn't about the graphics or filming, it's just about the story. The paranoia of running from the cylons, the paranoia of searching for spies, and the witch hunt of looking for them. And then seeing how all those elements evolve as the last of humanity floats through space. As a SciFi show (both genre, and TV network) there are massive limitations in budget and talent as far as production goes. But if youre forgiving (I feel like any fan of the sci-fi genre has to be forgiving in all other aspects) and can just watch it to see how the story develops, it's worth it and you'll see why people like it so much.
For what it's worth I personally didn't think I it was the greatest, but it did have some really strong moments that stick around with me and I'm happy I watched it (but would have plenty of other things I would consider watching before ever re-watching it).
I would consider 6/10 extremely generous. The Expanse books are better than the TV show and the books are maybe a 4/10 at best. Where 5 is average, they were definitely below average. Corey is not a sparkling writer and their ideas are pretty standard/derivative.
The Expanse is the best space opera on TV around now but that's not really much of a thing because there is almost nothing good in the genre on screen. It doesn't really translate to screen well, it seems. I love sci-fi, especially space opera, I probably read it more than anything else. But it rarely seems to work on TV (or movies).
The best sci-fi on TV in recent years was Severance by several thousand miles.
Can we get some examples of what you would consider good, for context? This is all opinion based so while I don't agree that the Expanse is below-average, who cares. It'd be helpful to get some comparisons though, for discussion - the ideas are derivative compared to what?
The first Expanse book is a pretty straight lift of Neal Asher's Jain, from his Polity series. A series I would rate 7.5/10 although some books are better than others. But hegemonic alien nanotech is hardly a new idea.
Top tier space opera for me would be Iain M Banks' Culture books; Peter F Hamilton's pretty much everything but especially the Night's Dawn; Stephen Baxter's Xeelee sequence; Ann Leckie's Imperial Radch and more recently Arkady Martine's Teixcalaan series. All well written books full of great, original ideas with huge cosmic scope. Also Greg Egan but he's not such a good writer. He's a heck of a mathematician and his ideas are off the chart weird, but his books are often very hard work.
Corey's books read like treatments for screenplays. Which is, essentially, what they are. Franck and Abraham are both screenwriters and I suspect they wanted The Expanse to go to TV from the very start, but it's easier to get a book published and it's easier to get a TV show greenlit if you have a successful book. There's a distinct lack of the joy of writing in their writing, which makes it pretty pedestrian to read even if their ideas were outstanding (which they are not). They're just a bit dull.
I've started reading the Culture books recently, and I am surprised to see them rated so highly so often. They feel like interesting ideas, but poor stories - particularly with the abrupt endings, unsympathetic characters, and coincidences. Kind of like a middling Black Mirror episode, where I'd rather just read the summary on the Wikipedia page, if that makes sense.
That said, while I disagree with you about how bad The Expanse series is, I agree that the title "the current example of excellent sci-fi" is a bit strong. It's good, solid television, but in terms of really pushing the boat out for sci-fi, I would first think of shows like Andor or Severance rather than The Expanse.
Oh yes totally agreed about Andor. Westworld* and Silo also come to mind for me!
*all seasons! I will fight you and die on this hill
Even the final season of Westworld? 1-3 I like, but that 4th one...To me, it's definitely the weakest. Regardless, it's too bad it got cancelled.
Yeahhhh. I appreciate the culture books for their strengths, which is novel ideas.
I think there is a type of person where that's the main thing they want out of Sci Fi: Cool ideas about technology that they haven't thought of before.
As far as actual storytelling, I feel the same way as you. The whole time you're wondering what the hell is going on, why do I care about any of these people, what's the point of this story, and then in the last 10% of the book, everything is tied up and thrown together. I read (I think) 5 of the books and it became so formulaic that I had to stop reading them.
There are some cool power fantasy ideas, but that's not really what I read fiction for.
This is so fascinating to me, because I would've put their strengths as strong (if not particularly flowery) writing and good character work. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I agree that the ideas are very straightforward, but that's not really what the expanse is about. It's a story about people more than anything else.
Try some Iain M Banks, China Mieville or Ann Leckie (although the first 1/3 of Ancillary Justice is a bit of a slog, it does get much better). I think they're all much better writers, purely in terms of assembling words on a page. They write actual literature rather than stories. Sometimes I find myself re-reading a passage just because it's such a joy to read. Leckie and Banks have both pulled off good books in the second person mode, which is really difficult to do well.
Almost all stories are, ultimately, about people. That's sort of what sci-fi is, isn't it? You construct a world according to some extrapolation from known science (or at least science-adjacent, usually you get FTL for free in even hard sci-fi), then put people in it and see what they do. Although sometimes the people are machines or aliens or even terrifying giant spiders, but that's fine. People aren't always human, even here and now on Earth.
Thanks for the recs!
I’m still so upset by how they ended it. I get that the drama with Alex led to the “event” occurring in the show, and while idk if that led to them ending it where they did there were just so many unanswered questions
Even with that being said I do greatly appreciate all the attention to detail, such as: the constant clicking of the magnetic gravity boots, the realism of suiting up for a gunfight (where duh the hull will depressurize after the first round hits), and honestly I felt like the way major events were portrayed was done so well like the stealth asteroid thing and even how the protomolecule progression was displayed
They ended the series in approximately the same way they ended that particular book. There's three more books, and they wanted to leave the door open to finish their adaptation.
There's also a substantial time jump where they left things, so if they did adapt the last books, they could do it with any set of actors they wish. It's honestly kind of refreshing that they made no compromise in the story.
Agreed. The ending wasn't anything close to as bad as how they botched Game of Thrones, but I'm not keen to ever rewatch The Expanse knowing that it all kind of peters out. And the last villain of the series was mind-numbingly boring. I did not want to know all about that family drama, the writing was poor, and the acting didn't make up for it. I haven't read the books, so I don't know if this was a bad adaptation or if the source material is similarly disappointing.
Again, know that where the show "ended" is basically the start of the final arc of the books.
Duarte, that "boring" villain, becomes a much more substantial threat - both in terms of scope and in characterization.
The "family" stuff is excerpted from a novella, and serves to introduce the readers (and viewers) to Laconia. It, too, pays off in the later books.
The show, by and large, is an excellent and mostly faithful adaptation of its source material. One of the writers served as a producer throughout the run.
If this sounds disappointing to you, you could probably skip the books. But I highly recommend them personally. They're quite good, and deliberately written to an end rather than carrying on forever. If and when the show is picked back up, they've got three, maybe four seasons left to adapt.
I agree with the rating of The Expanse and OPs post overall and I love sci fi. I really like The Expanse but there seems to be a low expectation in general to sci fi if this is the best of the best. Compare that to exceptional shows in other genres and it wouldn’t even make the top 5. I tried watching Firefly, Star Trek, a ton of Star Wars and BG but it’s just not that good and childlike at times. It seems like cheesiness and horrible acting gets a pass if we just get some cool space stuff and it kinda reminds me of the horror genre. Maybe that’s why there’s a lot of overlap between to two.
Sorry about that! I may not be much into what sci-fi has to offer in the shape of space opera tv shows, that's true, but I am massively into SF&F in general - currently I'm reading a book in the genre, and some of my favourite movies of all time include for example Villeneuve's forays into sci-fi, so.. no I definitely like it a lot! His Blade Runner movie would probably be my best example of excellence in the genre, not to mention Arrival and Dune of course
DS9 bright arcs because of Babylon 5, which if you’ve never seen still is some of the best television ever made. Note Season one is not part of that great television but gets you introduced to the characters and the world. B5 was so good though it spooked the Star Trek folks and they followed suit. And unlike something like Lost, B5 has a planned multisession arc from the beginning. Is wonderful.
Babylon 5 did air later than DS9, but the executives who essentially commissioned DS9 already had their people read through Babylon 5. It's generally felt that the studio skipped buying the rights to Babylon 5 because they could copy it themselves (cheaper) and attach a name brand IP to it that would play better to audiences. It did and unfortunately Babylon 5's history is tarnished as a result.
SeaQuest was another interwsting sci-fi story that attempted to have episodic stories with an almost-over-arching story. They just never really got to the end game, IIRC.
I loved it. I thought the absence of show-wide story arcs on other shows was really annoying and broke immersion.
But we've gone the totally opposite way now. Every series is basically just a huge, chopped up movie.
I miss seasons of 20+ episodes with the occasional filler and a light story thread weaving everything together.
I suggest two shows to have that dynamic: Monk and Psych ;)
I enjoy both Monk and Psych but I will point out that they're not exactly current shows.
I don't mind.
I recently started watching Law & Order: SVU.
I've admitted defeat and realized I will just forever prefer 90s & 00s shows 😂
I started watching both way back when, but never finished them. Probably wasn't in the mood for whodunits at the time, but I'll give them another go :)
I think id agree here. I haven't watched it since it's time but I recall being amazed by it,so shame it might not hold up.
But really you have to remember until a bit recently, if you were a fan of fantasy or Sci fi, you had very few options for movies and TV. It was also at the time a giant novelty to have a continuous TV series that wasn't just episodal plots and had an overarching story. That in itself was enough to make a lot of shows captivating.
There are a lot of fantasy/Sci fi movies and shows I have good memories of thst I would probably not touch now. Back then we had nothing like the expanse, and Battlestar was the only thing you got that wasn't star trek.