NoblePath's recent activity
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Comment on Should White Supremacists Be Allowed To Practice Law? in ~misc
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Comment on An unsettling new theory: there is no "swing voter" in ~misc
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Comment on An unsettling new theory: there is no "swing voter" in ~misc
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Comment on Is Catalina a good upgrade yet? in ~tech
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Comment on Trump impeachment: Failed witnesses vote paves way for acquittal in ~news
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Comment on Star Trek: Picard S01E02 Maps and Legends in ~tv
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentI don’t expect answers, i only hope for better questions. As it is, i’m not interested about whether any particular transaction, or type of transaction, is exploitive. Rather, i want to know is...I don’t expect answers, i only hope for better questions.
As it is, i’m not interested about whether any particular transaction, or type of transaction, is exploitive. Rather, i want to know is there something inherently wrong with sex work that can’t be cured through better working conditions.
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentI’ll never tell ;) Direct Exploitation of the workers, while truly awful, is only one possible issue. I’m more interested in whether there is a more fundamental, unavoidable harm inherent in the...I’ll never tell ;)
Direct Exploitation of the workers, while truly awful, is only one possible issue. I’m more interested in whether there is a more fundamental, unavoidable harm inherent in the work. And if there is, is it for me, personally? Or is it more general, or abstract?
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentI’m not persuaded that’s true, or that it’s even possible to reach that kind of conclusion. Sex ties to so much else, like identity at the physiological level. I’ll admit the possibility that sex...and for others, it's about getting your jollies and nothing more.
I’m not persuaded that’s true, or that it’s even possible to reach that kind of conclusion. Sex ties to so much else, like identity at the physiological level. I’ll admit the possibility that sex can be a most casual thing, but all the evidence points in a different direction.
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentThank you for giving specific articulation to one of my objections.. My observation is that a subset of the market for sex work specifically wants exploitation and humiliation. It is built into the very fabric of how certain people see sex work and sex workers.
Thank you for giving specific articulation to one of my objections.
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
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Comment on Is sex work bad? in ~talk
NoblePath Link Parent🎵 There are times, when all the world’s asleep, the questions run too deep, for such a simple mind... 🎵 Pondering and discussin impossible to answer questions is a pastime. I live my life best i...🎵 There are times, when all the world’s asleep, the questions run too deep, for such a simple mind... 🎵
Pondering and discussin impossible to answer questions is a pastime. I live my life best i can otherwise, including donations of time and money to those in need (mostly in the substance abuse arena).
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Is sex work bad?
Prompted by a recent tildes post about vice, and also this from the bbc, and a conversation with a colleague who just went to a strip club, I keep thinking about this issue. I have a stake in...
Prompted by a recent tildes post about vice, and also this from the bbc, and a conversation with a colleague who just went to a strip club, I keep thinking about this issue.
I have a stake in this, despite being cis male: I have mother, sisters, wife, and most importantly young daughter. And I am a feminist, on simple moral grounds.
My baseline position is that whether a woman chooses to engage in sex work is, and should be legally and socially supported as, entirely her own choice.
The only question I have any business answering, or participating in finding an answer, is whether my patronage of sex work is inherently exploitive, to either the woman whom I am patronizing* or to other women individually or to womanhood and general issues of gender.
And I just can’t come up with a good answer. I do look at porn, but increasingly, as with meat, the potential ethical problems of it are reducing the enjoyment. I have tried to ease my conscience by limiting myself to cartoons and stories, but those wouldn’t stop the harm that is caused by the mere existence of porn, if any exists.
As a purely practical matter, the existence of the industry leads to opportunities for exploitation of individuals, and the advancement of a culture of gender exploitation. But as the war on drugs has so ably demonstrated, any attempt at prohibition only increases the level of exploitation, while smart regulation decreases it. Regardless, though, there’s plenty of exploitation to go around the world, I heard there’s thing called #metoo.
I come from a sex-suppressing, fundamentalist “Christian” background. The quotes are there to indicate that I think much of the practices were anything but christ-like. The principles there swirl through the culture around me in varying degrees of intensity, and they inform and direct my choices (sometimes against my will and my better hopes and ideals). I have to be open to the notion that any objection I have to sex work, or my participation, is entirely a cultural construct. And while I don’t think it is true, I cannot dismiss the notion that morals themselves may have no possible objective existence, having relevance and utility (if at all) only in very time and space limited scopes.
It is what I believe the sociologists call a “wicked” problem. It involves really complicated normative stances, and there’s no data analysis that can provide any guidance. For myself, I expect my participation to continue to wane as I mature. I only hope that whatever I do only further enables and empowers the women in my life and everywhere.
- I almost stopped myself from using this word when I realized potential implications, but ultimately left it in because it (and the fact it was my natural inclination to select it) really highlights the issue for me and hopefully others
Bonus hypothetical: If porn is somehow wrong and harmful, even drawings and writings, are sex fantasies also wrong?
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Comment on Game: Can You Defeat the Privacy Chicken? in ~games
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Comment on On Vice in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentEthics and morals. See my response to Algernon_Asimov if you're curious for more. Also, I was responding to those such as A_A and others in this thread who say the feel free to engage in sex...Ethics and morals. See my response to Algernon_Asimov if you're curious for more.
Also, I was responding to those such as A_A and others in this thread who say the feel free to engage in sex services where it is not harmful, and I'm curious how they perform that evaluation both generally and in any particular transaction.
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Comment on On Vice in ~talk
NoblePath Link ParentIt's important to point out there are at least two issues: should it be legal, and is it right? I'm certainly in the make it legal camp on the former issue. The second issue is the one where it...It's important to point out there are at least two issues: should it be legal, and is it right? I'm certainly in the make it legal camp on the former issue. The second issue is the one where it gets tricky.
I don't have a satisfying answer for myself, let alone anyone else, but on a visceral level it seems, if not objectionable, at least worthy of a nuanced and deep examination with regard to harm.
There is also the fact that very strong majority of sex service providers are female, and a similar proportion of consumers are male. If these numbers were more even, I think it would go a long way to quieting my gut reaction.
Many feminists also challenge that notion that sex work can ever be performed without creating harm. I'm not qualified to recite their objections, but I know they exist, and I know they are most likely better qualified to adjudge the issue. I also know that there are other feminists who think, at least, that the criminalization of sex work is a form of gender oppression (kind of like abortion). I know there are others who say sex work helps them claim gender power. I'm in no position really to comment on that, either, which puts me in a bind I don't know how to release.
I do know there is a strong social propensity to condone, or even encourage, the sexual objectification of women, and there's a relatable argument that sex work really contributes to that circumstance. I know I (mostly cis male) tend to do that, and I fight against it because I think that is harmful.
It's not a bright lined issue to my eyes. There is enough of an appearance for potential social harm that it warrants really close examination.
That said, I wish it were legal, and I wish there were no stigma for the service providers, and robust healthcare, economic* and legal support for them.
*e.g., you should be able to get a loan with your body as collateral
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Comment on On Vice in ~talk
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Comment on All the World’s Wealth in One Visual in ~finance
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Comment on What's your favorite food that tastes good and is good for you? in ~food
Like most things lawyer, it depends.
In the U.S., litigants have a right to choose whatever counsel is willing to represent them and admitted to the bar. An exception exists for indigent clients entitled to counsel, and the court appoints from a pool of supposedly qualified attorneys willing to be appointed for such work.
In that case, it's a potential conflict of interest, which the lawyer has a duty to disclose, and the client may waive the conflict or not.
The more important question is whether such lawyers should be considered qualified, or admitted to the bar.
I think the answer is clear: it is unconstitutional to discriminate based on race, and a stated or demonstrated intention to so discriminate should disqualify any practitioner from the bar.