This is an incredibly vapid, empty article. The entire “story” is that Microsoft sent an email where there was a FAQ which had the following That’s it. Rest of the “article” is trying to twist...
This is an incredibly vapid, empty article. The entire “story” is that Microsoft sent an email where there was a FAQ which had the following
What does this mean for me?
After October 14, 2025, Microsoft will no longer provide free software updates from Windows Update, technical assistance, or security fixes for Windows 10.
What can I do with my old computer?
Trade it in or recycle it with local organizations.
That’s it. Rest of the “article” is trying to twist that empty corporate FAQ line into something dramatic.
The article could conceivably be better but I posted it for the simple reason of highlighting the fact that an otherwise perfectly usable pc is now considered obsolete and destined for retirement....
The article could conceivably be better but I posted it for the simple reason of highlighting the fact that an otherwise perfectly usable pc is now considered obsolete and destined for retirement. All because of requirements with the potential to be twisted into further degradation of user agency for an os that is straight downgrade in usability and utility over even Windows 10.
I think that we can agree to disagree on this point. Windows 11 has more than enough refinements to where I would find downgrading to 10 to be an annoyance. I find the UI and UX changes agreeable...
An os that is straight downgrade in usability and utility over even Windows 10.
I think that we can agree to disagree on this point. Windows 11 has more than enough refinements to where I would find downgrading to 10 to be an annoyance. I find the UI and UX changes agreeable for the most part, there are a few "must have" features I love like global Windows Terminal and GUI apps in WSL. Other than that it feels like an iterative release, kind of like an XP, 7 or 8.1, rather than one that rips up the floorboards. The version number even claims to still be 10 if you open up the Command Prompt.
Though to be frank, I'm also tired of Windows users complaining about every new release of Windows. I feel like aside from 7, every new version of Windows for the past 25 years was disliked on release for various reasons. And if I may indulge in some Windows hot takes, I think Vista was vastly overhated, and Windows 8.1 is the best the Windows Desktop ever looked and only needed a dark mode to be perfect.
Windows 11 has its virtues, some of which I upgraded early on for (I appreciate the new theme that returns rounded corners and some semblance of depth. Yeah, the Metro/Modern theme that came with...
Windows 11 has its virtues, some of which I upgraded early on for (I appreciate the new theme that returns rounded corners and some semblance of depth. Yeah, the Metro/Modern theme that came with 8 has never been my thing). What’s stretching patience for a lot of us though is all the mostly useless junk that keeps getting added, the upsells dotted throughout, it becoming increasingly difficult to have an offline-only account, new services running in the background constantly being added doing mysterious somethings, etc.
There are also some things that have become more complicated, less ergonomic, or noisier than they need to be for no reason. This really leapt out at me when I booted up an old Win 7 box a while back — while 7 isn’t without its flaws it’s significantly better in terms of just getting out of the way and letting me do my thing, whatever that may be in whichever way I want to do it. It’s almost zen like in comparison.
I wouldn't recommend using Windows 11 without joining it to a domain. And even then I've had it encourage me to associate a Microsoft account with my apparently corporate-provided domain account....
I wouldn't recommend using Windows 11 without joining it to a domain. And even then I've had it encourage me to associate a Microsoft account with my apparently corporate-provided domain account. Even when Microsoft account sign-in was disabled by policy, so clicking the angry red dot brought up a screen saying I wasn't allowed to do the thing.
So also I guess I wouldn't recommend using Windows 11.
They’re very heavy handed about signing in, much more than Apple or Google have ever been (though in Google’s case, they instead harass you into submission). The only reason I can imagine that...
They’re very heavy handed about signing in, much more than Apple or Google have ever been (though in Google’s case, they instead harass you into submission). The only reason I can imagine that people don’t have their pitchforks out about it is that they’ve been taking a “boil the frog” approach and users with an inkling of technical capability still have an out, as convoluted as it may be.
Windows XP was revolutionary because it was the first NT kernel for the home market. People fondly remember XP as 'The first version of Windows that didn't completely suck outside of a corporate...
Windows XP was revolutionary because it was the first NT kernel for the home market.
People fondly remember XP as 'The first version of Windows that didn't completely suck outside of a corporate environment.'
Windows Vista hate is completely justified. It performed worse than XP on the same hardware. It was a bloated slow monstrosity that was plagued with driver issues. The best thing that could be said about Vista is that by the time Windows 7 came around, hardware had advanced enough that Vista no longer felt painful to use.
From the Toms Hardware Vista/7 benchmarks:
SYSmark 2007, once patched to version 1.06, can now run on Windows 7 and attest to Windows 7 performance benefits that are more substantial than what you’d get from purchasing the next faster CPU speed bin.
Yeah, the performance issues with Vista were mind boggling. Vista came with a benchmarking tool of sorts called experience index and it was notable because for whatever reason almost everyone’s...
Yeah, the performance issues with Vista were mind boggling. Vista came with a benchmarking tool of sorts called experience index and it was notable because for whatever reason almost everyone’s experience would be downgraded after regular usage, seemingly without installing any additional software. Even doing basic things like copying files were needlessly slow, and you could actually speed things up notably by using the copy command from the command prompt instead of using the graphical tools.
Windows file copying has never been good. Especially for large quantities of small files across different devices. At this point I'm pretty sure they've just given up. There was a time when the...
Windows file copying has never been good. Especially for large quantities of small files across different devices.
At this point I'm pretty sure they've just given up.
There was a time when the fastest way to transfer 1000 files totalling like 200MB to a thumbdrivewas to first zip them up, then transfer them, then unzip.
While on literally any other OS the transfer would be done before the zip operation completed.
IIRC there’s still speed gains to be made by using command line tools instead of Explorer even in 10/11, though the difference isn’t as stark as it once was and it’s somewhat masked by the absurd...
IIRC there’s still speed gains to be made by using command line tools instead of Explorer even in 10/11, though the difference isn’t as stark as it once was and it’s somewhat masked by the absurd speed of modern storage.
Resentment of Windows XP was not hard to find upon release. Being the first version of Windows NT designed for the consumer market, there were a number of compatibility shortcomings where people's...
Windows XP was revolutionary because it was the first NT kernel for the home market.
Resentment of Windows XP was not hard to find upon release.
Being the first version of Windows NT designed for the consumer market, there were a number of compatibility shortcomings where people's software and games wouldn't run correctly.
The UI skin was considered ugly and unserious. "Fischer Price UI" was a common jab in this vein.
Most notoriously, XP was the first version of Windows to require internet activation. One of the biggest internet memes of the era was a picture of a burned copy of Windows XP with the famous FCKGW CD key on it, taken in front of an advertisement for Windows XP with a digital readout stating that the launch was in 35 days.
I suppose that is fair since it is matter of priorities and preferences. Personally I find the general UX too forcefully assertive to be comfortably usable by me for general purpose computing in...
I suppose that is fair since it is matter of priorities and preferences.
Personally I find the general UX too forcefully assertive to be comfortably usable by me for general purpose computing in personal life. Even without the indirect to everyday experience issues of telemetry and forced updates(I maintain that changing functionality of the device user owns should be consent based but consider opt out to be acceptable here) the usage of 11 is something I get through, not something I want to do. Windows 10 has that too but significantly muted compared to 11.
Yeah, while Win 11 has annoyances (that I've mostly disabled with group policy and registry edits), there are some things it improved on that were problems for years. One that impacts me daily is...
Yeah, while Win 11 has annoyances (that I've mostly disabled with group policy and registry edits), there are some things it improved on that were problems for years.
One that impacts me daily is window placement automatically adjusting when a monitor is connected or disconnected. It's nearly seamless now, where it was a huge pain in 10 and before.
But I will say I believe MS should have waited another iteration to pull the plug on 10. I get it, it's been a long time, but when you add hardware requirements that go way beyond "add more RAM" (as was often the case with Vista), I think you should give more breathing room.
To be fair, Windows 10 is now going to be 10 years old. At some point a company is not going to be able to continue to support old software. Not saying 10 years is a sufficient cutoff or not, but...
To be fair, Windows 10 is now going to be 10 years old. At some point a company is not going to be able to continue to support old software. Not saying 10 years is a sufficient cutoff or not, but it does have to happen at some point.
Whether or not Windows 11 is a sufficient replacement/upgrade of software is a different conversation though.
The thing is though....they could. Considering that in this month alone, 6 critical vulnerabilities were patched that were present at least as far back as Server 2008. It's not like these new...
The thing is though....they could. Considering that in this month alone, 6 critical vulnerabilities were patched that were present at least as far back as Server 2008. It's not like these new versions have abandoned the old Windows, they just slap another coat of paint on it.
They of course, wouldn't do this, because there is a lot more money to be made by periodically forcing everyone to repave their machines and abandon their old perpetual licences.
This is getting to the root issue. There was a time this was true, because innovations were flowing and each new iteration added many features, functionalities, and improvements, and danced that...
At some point a company is not going to be able to continue to support old software
This is getting to the root issue.
There was a time this was true, because innovations were flowing and each new iteration added many features, functionalities, and improvements, and danced that way with the hardware.
We have now reached maturity for the PC with a manual and 2d visual interface. A few changes are necessary for security, but most add little to the experience at this point. See also enshittification. Apple’s M was a great leap forward, but in terms of the ui, nothing needed to change. Subsequent upgrades have added little.
The point is, until there is a real improvement change-significantly better hardware or a paradigmatic shift in interface-there’s no reason to change, or stop supporting existing software.
Edit: i will add that I do believe that there is value in continuing experimentation and change for its own sake, because that is always the path to better. However, when changes are not necessary, or are needlessly disruptive, it should very much be an optional for the average user.
And due to the modularity of a modern OS, it becomes possible to just layer on new features while slowly deprecating old ones. Heck, even as far back as Vista, most of its new features could be...
And due to the modularity of a modern OS, it becomes possible to just layer on new features while slowly deprecating old ones.
Heck, even as far back as Vista, most of its new features could be back ported or replicated on XP.
Microsoft also thoroughly marketed Windows 10 as though they were going to do this. One of their developer evangelists called it "the last version of Windows" at Microsoft Ignite and that was...
Microsoft also thoroughly marketed Windows 10 as though they were going to do this. One of their developer evangelists called it "the last version of Windows" at Microsoft Ignite and that was widely covered in the media at the time.
I remember the only compelling reason to switch to Vista was that they refused to have DirectX 10 working on XP. While 10 had significant improvements over 9, Microsoft went so far embellishing it...
I remember the only compelling reason to switch to Vista was that they refused to have DirectX 10 working on XP.
While 10 had significant improvements over 9, Microsoft went so far embellishing it they ended up basically lying about it. I remember them publishing comparison screenshots where the directX 9 version was almost entirely the same as the 10 version, except it was fairly obviously edited to make it darker.
I just took it to mean that every game should be using openGL. 🤷
Oh yea IIRC some intrepid hackers managed to get DX10 backported to XP. Or at the very least learned that most "Vista Only" games ran just fine once the OS check was disabled.
Oh yea IIRC some intrepid hackers managed to get DX10 backported to XP. Or at the very least learned that most "Vista Only" games ran just fine once the OS check was disabled.
I think most software companies would kill to have Windows 10's prospective userbase. And it's not like software has an expiry date - 10 years isn't that old for software, especially when you...
To be fair, Windows 10 is now going to be 10 years old. At some point a company is not going to be able to continue to support old software.
I think most software companies would kill to have Windows 10's prospective userbase. And it's not like software has an expiry date - 10 years isn't that old for software, especially when you consider how old Windows in general is - windows NT was first released in 1993 so it's 32 years old.
This is my point as well. Actually all my PCs (and PCs that I manage for my relatives) can't run Windows 11. They are plenty powerful to run Windows 10 and would have enough horsepower for 11 as...
This is my point as well. Actually all my PCs (and PCs that I manage for my relatives) can't run Windows 11. They are plenty powerful to run Windows 10 and would have enough horsepower for 11 as well, just that stupid bit about TPM (or whatever) disqualifies them.
And now the punch line - only two of all those PCs (around 10) actually run Windows 10 at the moment, others are running Linux. And those two will remain on Windows 10 until they dies hardware-wise. Or I install Linux on them, which will be hard as they belong to the most conservative people all around me - they want Windows even though all they use is web browser. Maybe this Windows 11 thing will tip them over. I couldn't care less though.
Actually answering that people should recycle their machine is super evil (and not ecological, which I believe Microsoft will be all about if asked). The PC is very likely perfectly fine and can run for years... Just not Windows 11.
I've changed the link to the source article they're reblogging. It's also basically just a summary of an email, but at least it goes into what the next steps are for win10 users. ($30 for another...
I've changed the link to the source article they're reblogging. It's also basically just a summary of an email, but at least it goes into what the next steps are for win10 users. ($30 for another year of updates)
This push from Microsoft is incredibly wasteful. Computers have been “powerful enough” for coming up on two decades at this point, and machines dating back as far as midway through the Core 2 Duo...
This push from Microsoft is incredibly wasteful. Computers have been “powerful enough” for coming up on two decades at this point, and machines dating back as far as midway through the Core 2 Duo era are still shockingly usable given an SSD, adequate RAM, and a svelte OS. Will it chug occasionally? Yeah, but not so badly that those with basic needs should be looking to upgrade.
I'm just mad that Microsoft forces me to make registry changes to the windows 11 installer so I can use it on my pc I've progressively upgraded for years. Currently, the oldest part in it is from...
I'm just mad that Microsoft forces me to make registry changes to the windows 11 installer so I can use it on my pc I've progressively upgraded for years. Currently, the oldest part in it is from 2019, but Microsoft has decided that a computer of 1-6 year old parts belongs in the garbage despite still being more powerful than most pcs my friends use. Microsoft is happy to run windows 11 on those machines because all their hardware was built a couple years more recently.
I do find this particularly frustrating, as I use two older PCs for my kids to play games on, as well as an older one for my HTPC, which also runs games sometimes. I'll probably end up switching...
I do find this particularly frustrating, as I use two older PCs for my kids to play games on, as well as an older one for my HTPC, which also runs games sometimes.
I'll probably end up switching the HTPC over to Linux, as I think with Proton it'll run what I want to without issue, but as for my kids? I think I'll end up picking up some older office PCs or something that'll work with Win 11 so they can play Minecraft still.
Linux isn't an option for Minecraft, as there's no Bedrock edition, which is essential for my kids.
I'm not sure what I'll do with these older PCs otherwise. Probably hang on to them and maybe repurpose them for something Linux related down the road.
Good news! There is an unofficial launcher that will download the Android Bedrock version and makes it playable on Linux, with pretty much the same look and feel as Bedrock on Windows. You do have...
Linux isn't an option for Minecraft, as there's no Bedrock edition, which is essential for my kids.
Good news! There is an unofficial launcher that will download the Android Bedrock version and makes it playable on Linux, with pretty much the same look and feel as Bedrock on Windows. You do have to own the Android version on Google Play, but that's a lot cheaper than buying and maintaining another computer (plus you can use it on your Android tablet or phone).
I do own it on Android, as I've used my Steam Deck to play with them. But I can't recall if it's explicitly tied to my Google account, because I need to login to multiple accounts so that they can...
I do own it on Android, as I've used my Steam Deck to play with them. But I can't recall if it's explicitly tied to my Google account, because I need to login to multiple accounts so that they can play together.
The unofficial launcher uses your Google account to get the app from the Play Store and then once you run the app you login with a Microsoft account to get your avatar and friends list and...
The unofficial launcher uses your Google account to get the app from the Play Store and then once you run the app you login with a Microsoft account to get your avatar and friends list and everything.
So it should work to use your Google account to install it and then each kid's Microsoft account so they keep their own settings and can play together. There is an option during installation to encrypt the Google credentials so that they can't be used elsewhere.
Thanks for letting me know, I'm going to keep this in mind. Thinking through things here, I think my first tactic is going to be seeing if I can get around the system requirements and just install...
Thanks for letting me know, I'm going to keep this in mind.
Thinking through things here, I think my first tactic is going to be seeing if I can get around the system requirements and just install Windows 11 anyway, because that'll just be easiest for me if I can do a straight upgrade to what we've already got. No need to reinstall or reconfigure the games we already have.
As the resident "There will be no Bedrock in this house!" Dad, I discovered GeyserMC. Lets Bedrock players play with Java players. IIRC it's compatible with any server-only mods which don't...
As the resident "There will be no Bedrock in this house!" Dad, I discovered GeyserMC. Lets Bedrock players play with Java players.
IIRC it's compatible with any server-only mods which don't require client mods. Our server is a Survival with Flying server by having Essentials installed as well.
It's less about servers and whatnot (I don't let them play online yet) and more that they want to be able to play with controllers right now. I'm aware it can be modded into Java, but I don't want...
It's less about servers and whatnot (I don't let them play online yet) and more that they want to be able to play with controllers right now. I'm aware it can be modded into Java, but I don't want to have to mess around with mods when they inevitably break.
I want to be able to just send them to play games and then they've got it all worked out how to play without my intervention.
My 6 < 9 complained at first after using touchpads and controllers for so long, but had the hang of (and now prefers) mouse/keyboard inside of a week. If they're over 9, force them to fix...
My 6 < 9 complained at first after using touchpads and controllers for so long, but had the hang of (and now prefers) mouse/keyboard inside of a week.
If they're over 9, force them to fix controller support when it breaks. When I was that age I was troubleshooting IRQ conflicts.
Eventually, yes. I trained my wife (then girlfriend) to be technically competent and the idea of having my kids use computers over a Switch or something is that they have to learn. That said, I...
Eventually, yes. I trained my wife (then girlfriend) to be technically competent and the idea of having my kids use computers over a Switch or something is that they have to learn.
That said, I don't have a setup for them to use KB/M, right now. It would necessitate two desks, as they like to sit on the floor and play their games. I think it's possible and in their future, as I'm not only in the IT field, but have been using and gaming on PCs for around 35 years now. They'll learn, they're just not ready yet.
I wanted to make the joke that letting kids play Bedrock is bad parenting. But it's what MS pushes and I think they only keep Java around to avoid someone reimplementing it. I'm hearing great...
I wanted to make the joke that letting kids play Bedrock is bad parenting. But it's what MS pushes and I think they only keep Java around to avoid someone reimplementing it.
I'm hearing great things about ClassiCube, the Minecraft Classic reimplementation that runs on a potato.
Probably what you really want to do is give the old PCs to the kids with a couple screwdrivers. Taking down, rebuilding, and futzing with the critical system settings of a computer that does not have to work should be a mandatory educational experience.
I mean, Minecraft Java itself runs just fine on a 2012 Bulldozer laptop running Tumblewed with a dedicated GPU. Just as well or better than the Switch version IMO. I am curious about those MS DOS...
I mean, Minecraft Java itself runs just fine on a 2012 Bulldozer laptop running Tumblewed with a dedicated GPU. Just as well or better than the Switch version IMO.
I’m sure it’s become heavier in the time since, but I spent plenty of time in Minecraft on a 2009 27” iMac with an i5 750 CPU and very middling Radeon HD 4850 GPU, despite running at 2560x1440 and...
I’m sure it’s become heavier in the time since, but I spent plenty of time in Minecraft on a 2009 27” iMac with an i5 750 CPU and very middling Radeon HD 4850 GPU, despite running at 2560x1440 and it not being particularly well optimized for macOS.
I have also heard really good things about minetest. I think it got a new name recently? I have a friend whom I haven’t talked to in a while who was quite crazy for it. Aparantly it had some...
I have also heard really good things about minetest. I think it got a new name recently? I have a friend whom I haven’t talked to in a while who was quite crazy for it. Aparantly it had some amazing mods available for it.
Luanti which is a great name because it uses LUA for the games layered on the engine. Its great, but suffers the same "Why should I use your weird chat program instead of Discord" problems....
Luanti which is a great name because it uses LUA for the games layered on the engine.
Its great, but suffers the same "Why should I use your weird chat program instead of Discord" problems. Especially for kids tethered to consoles (phones inclusive).
I think at 7 and 4 they're a print unprepared for tearing down and rebuilding computers. Basically, I just need them to be able to play with a controller and I know I can mod that in to Java, but...
I think at 7 and 4 they're a print unprepared for tearing down and rebuilding computers.
Basically, I just need them to be able to play with a controller and I know I can mod that in to Java, but I don't need to but futz with and be trying to fix mods on a regular basis when there's already something that works.
I use the launcher that @kej linked for my kids. It work pretty well with the only issue being that when an update happens it doesn't run that updated version for a few days or something. This...
I use the launcher that @kej linked for my kids. It work pretty well with the only issue being that when an update happens it doesn't run that updated version for a few days or something. This means that you can't play with other people who ARE using the updated version.
Unfortunately the kids that my son plays with are usually playing on a Switch/iPad/Xbox... otherwise I'd love push them to java. I'm sure you have similar issues.
Edit: I forgot... if you don't already have an android device then you can't actually buy the game. So if you're all apple then you'd basically need to borrow someones old tablet or phone just to log the play store from a real device so that you can actually buy the game.
Another option, if you don't own an Android device, you can emulate one using your current PC. I've used Android Studio for this personally, but I've heard there are other emulators which are...
Another option, if you don't own an Android device, you can emulate one using your current PC. I've used Android Studio for this personally, but I've heard there are other emulators which are faster and more efficient. Android Studio is pretty simple though, the virtual hardware manager is accessible from the opening splash screen, the only real "trick" is that you want to use a version of the OS which includes the Google Play store, since not all of the OS images available through the virtual hardware manager come with it by default.
I only have one Windows machine left. The others are running Linux Mint. Since I have two programs that I still need on occasion and they only run on Windows, I held my nose and upgraded my old...
I only have one Windows machine left. The others are running Linux Mint.
Since I have two programs that I still need on occasion and they only run on Windows, I held my nose and upgraded my old machine to Windows 11 using Rufus to bypass the hardware checks. It works fine with Windows 11, though I did have to track down audio drivers. Realtek is no help with their onboard audio.
I ran O&O Shutup soon after the install, and I check it after each major update to the system. Honestly, I don't use Windows 11 enough to notice many differences between it and Windows 10. Windows has become an afterthought in my computing life these days.
Last I checked both of those should run under Linux fine, unless the now Microsoft-owned Blizzard took some steps to break it. If those are literally your only two hop ship and flip them off on...
Last I checked both of those should run under Linux fine, unless the now Microsoft-owned Blizzard took some steps to break it.
If those are literally your only two hop ship and flip them off on the way out.
This is an incredibly vapid, empty article. The entire “story” is that Microsoft sent an email where there was a FAQ which had the following
That’s it. Rest of the “article” is trying to twist that empty corporate FAQ line into something dramatic.
The article could conceivably be better but I posted it for the simple reason of highlighting the fact that an otherwise perfectly usable pc is now considered obsolete and destined for retirement. All because of requirements with the potential to be twisted into further degradation of user agency for an os that is straight downgrade in usability and utility over even Windows 10.
I think that we can agree to disagree on this point. Windows 11 has more than enough refinements to where I would find downgrading to 10 to be an annoyance. I find the UI and UX changes agreeable for the most part, there are a few "must have" features I love like global Windows Terminal and GUI apps in WSL. Other than that it feels like an iterative release, kind of like an XP, 7 or 8.1, rather than one that rips up the floorboards. The version number even claims to still be 10 if you open up the Command Prompt.
Though to be frank, I'm also tired of Windows users complaining about every new release of Windows. I feel like aside from 7, every new version of Windows for the past 25 years was disliked on release for various reasons. And if I may indulge in some Windows hot takes, I think Vista was vastly overhated, and Windows 8.1 is the best the Windows Desktop ever looked and only needed a dark mode to be perfect.
Windows 11 has its virtues, some of which I upgraded early on for (I appreciate the new theme that returns rounded corners and some semblance of depth. Yeah, the Metro/Modern theme that came with 8 has never been my thing). What’s stretching patience for a lot of us though is all the mostly useless junk that keeps getting added, the upsells dotted throughout, it becoming increasingly difficult to have an offline-only account, new services running in the background constantly being added doing mysterious somethings, etc.
There are also some things that have become more complicated, less ergonomic, or noisier than they need to be for no reason. This really leapt out at me when I booted up an old Win 7 box a while back — while 7 isn’t without its flaws it’s significantly better in terms of just getting out of the way and letting me do my thing, whatever that may be in whichever way I want to do it. It’s almost zen like in comparison.
I wouldn't recommend using Windows 11 without joining it to a domain. And even then I've had it encourage me to associate a Microsoft account with my apparently corporate-provided domain account. Even when Microsoft account sign-in was disabled by policy, so clicking the angry red dot brought up a screen saying I wasn't allowed to do the thing.
So also I guess I wouldn't recommend using Windows 11.
They’re very heavy handed about signing in, much more than Apple or Google have ever been (though in Google’s case, they instead harass you into submission). The only reason I can imagine that people don’t have their pitchforks out about it is that they’ve been taking a “boil the frog” approach and users with an inkling of technical capability still have an out, as convoluted as it may be.
Windows XP was revolutionary because it was the first NT kernel for the home market.
People fondly remember XP as 'The first version of Windows that didn't completely suck outside of a corporate environment.'
Windows Vista hate is completely justified. It performed worse than XP on the same hardware. It was a bloated slow monstrosity that was plagued with driver issues. The best thing that could be said about Vista is that by the time Windows 7 came around, hardware had advanced enough that Vista no longer felt painful to use.
From the Toms Hardware Vista/7 benchmarks:
Yeah, the performance issues with Vista were mind boggling. Vista came with a benchmarking tool of sorts called experience index and it was notable because for whatever reason almost everyone’s experience would be downgraded after regular usage, seemingly without installing any additional software. Even doing basic things like copying files were needlessly slow, and you could actually speed things up notably by using the copy command from the command prompt instead of using the graphical tools.
Windows file copying has never been good. Especially for large quantities of small files across different devices.
At this point I'm pretty sure they've just given up.
There was a time when the fastest way to transfer 1000 files totalling like 200MB to a thumbdrivewas to first zip them up, then transfer them, then unzip.
While on literally any other OS the transfer would be done before the zip operation completed.
IIRC there’s still speed gains to be made by using command line tools instead of Explorer even in 10/11, though the difference isn’t as stark as it once was and it’s somewhat masked by the absurd speed of modern storage.
Resentment of Windows XP was not hard to find upon release.
FCKGWCD key on it, taken in front of an advertisement for Windows XP with a digital readout stating that the launch was in 35 days.I suppose that is fair since it is matter of priorities and preferences.
Personally I find the general UX too forcefully assertive to be comfortably usable by me for general purpose computing in personal life. Even without the indirect to everyday experience issues of telemetry and forced updates(I maintain that changing functionality of the device user owns should be consent based but consider opt out to be acceptable here) the usage of 11 is something I get through, not something I want to do. Windows 10 has that too but significantly muted compared to 11.
Yeah, while Win 11 has annoyances (that I've mostly disabled with group policy and registry edits), there are some things it improved on that were problems for years.
One that impacts me daily is window placement automatically adjusting when a monitor is connected or disconnected. It's nearly seamless now, where it was a huge pain in 10 and before.
But I will say I believe MS should have waited another iteration to pull the plug on 10. I get it, it's been a long time, but when you add hardware requirements that go way beyond "add more RAM" (as was often the case with Vista), I think you should give more breathing room.
To be fair, Windows 10 is now going to be 10 years old. At some point a company is not going to be able to continue to support old software. Not saying 10 years is a sufficient cutoff or not, but it does have to happen at some point.
Whether or not Windows 11 is a sufficient replacement/upgrade of software is a different conversation though.
The thing is though....they could. Considering that in this month alone, 6 critical vulnerabilities were patched that were present at least as far back as Server 2008. It's not like these new versions have abandoned the old Windows, they just slap another coat of paint on it.
They of course, wouldn't do this, because there is a lot more money to be made by periodically forcing everyone to repave their machines and abandon their old perpetual licences.
was the server 2008 patch provided to people who don’t pay for extended security support?
Probably not. Gotta monetize those security updates.
See also their identity providing services in Azure.
Was there a patch for 2008? According to Microsoft, ESU for 2008/2008R2 servers ended January 2024 (jan 2023 for non-Azure machines)
This is getting to the root issue.
There was a time this was true, because innovations were flowing and each new iteration added many features, functionalities, and improvements, and danced that way with the hardware.
We have now reached maturity for the PC with a manual and 2d visual interface. A few changes are necessary for security, but most add little to the experience at this point. See also enshittification. Apple’s M was a great leap forward, but in terms of the ui, nothing needed to change. Subsequent upgrades have added little.
The point is, until there is a real improvement change-significantly better hardware or a paradigmatic shift in interface-there’s no reason to change, or stop supporting existing software.
Edit: i will add that I do believe that there is value in continuing experimentation and change for its own sake, because that is always the path to better. However, when changes are not necessary, or are needlessly disruptive, it should very much be an optional for the average user.
And due to the modularity of a modern OS, it becomes possible to just layer on new features while slowly deprecating old ones.
Heck, even as far back as Vista, most of its new features could be back ported or replicated on XP.
Microsoft also thoroughly marketed Windows 10 as though they were going to do this. One of their developer evangelists called it "the last version of Windows" at Microsoft Ignite and that was widely covered in the media at the time.
I remember the only compelling reason to switch to Vista was that they refused to have DirectX 10 working on XP.
While 10 had significant improvements over 9, Microsoft went so far embellishing it they ended up basically lying about it. I remember them publishing comparison screenshots where the directX 9 version was almost entirely the same as the 10 version, except it was fairly obviously edited to make it darker.
I just took it to mean that every game should be using openGL. 🤷
Oh yea IIRC some intrepid hackers managed to get DX10 backported to XP. Or at the very least learned that most "Vista Only" games ran just fine once the OS check was disabled.
I think most software companies would kill to have Windows 10's prospective userbase. And it's not like software has an expiry date - 10 years isn't that old for software, especially when you consider how old Windows in general is - windows NT was first released in 1993 so it's 32 years old.
This is my point as well. Actually all my PCs (and PCs that I manage for my relatives) can't run Windows 11. They are plenty powerful to run Windows 10 and would have enough horsepower for 11 as well, just that stupid bit about TPM (or whatever) disqualifies them.
And now the punch line - only two of all those PCs (around 10) actually run Windows 10 at the moment, others are running Linux. And those two will remain on Windows 10 until they dies hardware-wise. Or I install Linux on them, which will be hard as they belong to the most conservative people all around me - they want Windows even though all they use is web browser. Maybe this Windows 11 thing will tip them over. I couldn't care less though.
Actually answering that people should recycle their machine is super evil (and not ecological, which I believe Microsoft will be all about if asked). The PC is very likely perfectly fine and can run for years... Just not Windows 11.
I've changed the link to the source article they're reblogging. It's also basically just a summary of an email, but at least it goes into what the next steps are for win10 users. ($30 for another year of updates)
Original link OP posted was: https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-tells-windows-10-users-trade-in-pc/
Edit: I've changed it back, since they're both awful and I misread the $30 bit. Original article XDA is reblogging is: https://www.windowslatest.com/2025/03/19/microsoft-emails-windows-10-deadline-warning-urges-windows-11-upgrade/
This push from Microsoft is incredibly wasteful. Computers have been “powerful enough” for coming up on two decades at this point, and machines dating back as far as midway through the Core 2 Duo era are still shockingly usable given an SSD, adequate RAM, and a svelte OS. Will it chug occasionally? Yeah, but not so badly that those with basic needs should be looking to upgrade.
I'm just mad that Microsoft forces me to make registry changes to the windows 11 installer so I can use it on my pc I've progressively upgraded for years. Currently, the oldest part in it is from 2019, but Microsoft has decided that a computer of 1-6 year old parts belongs in the garbage despite still being more powerful than most pcs my friends use. Microsoft is happy to run windows 11 on those machines because all their hardware was built a couple years more recently.
I do find this particularly frustrating, as I use two older PCs for my kids to play games on, as well as an older one for my HTPC, which also runs games sometimes.
I'll probably end up switching the HTPC over to Linux, as I think with Proton it'll run what I want to without issue, but as for my kids? I think I'll end up picking up some older office PCs or something that'll work with Win 11 so they can play Minecraft still.
Linux isn't an option for Minecraft, as there's no Bedrock edition, which is essential for my kids.
I'm not sure what I'll do with these older PCs otherwise. Probably hang on to them and maybe repurpose them for something Linux related down the road.
Good news! There is an unofficial launcher that will download the Android Bedrock version and makes it playable on Linux, with pretty much the same look and feel as Bedrock on Windows. You do have to own the Android version on Google Play, but that's a lot cheaper than buying and maintaining another computer (plus you can use it on your Android tablet or phone).
I do own it on Android, as I've used my Steam Deck to play with them. But I can't recall if it's explicitly tied to my Google account, because I need to login to multiple accounts so that they can play together.
The unofficial launcher uses your Google account to get the app from the Play Store and then once you run the app you login with a Microsoft account to get your avatar and friends list and everything.
So it should work to use your Google account to install it and then each kid's Microsoft account so they keep their own settings and can play together. There is an option during installation to encrypt the Google credentials so that they can't be used elsewhere.
Thanks for letting me know, I'm going to keep this in mind.
Thinking through things here, I think my first tactic is going to be seeing if I can get around the system requirements and just install Windows 11 anyway, because that'll just be easiest for me if I can do a straight upgrade to what we've already got. No need to reinstall or reconfigure the games we already have.
As the resident "There will be no Bedrock in this house!" Dad, I discovered GeyserMC. Lets Bedrock players play with Java players.
IIRC it's compatible with any server-only mods which don't require client mods. Our server is a Survival with Flying server by having Essentials installed as well.
Edit: @mild_takes may be interested as well.
It's less about servers and whatnot (I don't let them play online yet) and more that they want to be able to play with controllers right now. I'm aware it can be modded into Java, but I don't want to have to mess around with mods when they inevitably break.
I want to be able to just send them to play games and then they've got it all worked out how to play without my intervention.
My 6 < 9 complained at first after using touchpads and controllers for so long, but had the hang of (and now prefers) mouse/keyboard inside of a week.
If they're over 9, force them to fix controller support when it breaks. When I was that age I was troubleshooting IRQ conflicts.
No more Techno-Dad to the rescue is proving an essential learning tool.
Eventually, yes. I trained my wife (then girlfriend) to be technically competent and the idea of having my kids use computers over a Switch or something is that they have to learn.
That said, I don't have a setup for them to use KB/M, right now. It would necessitate two desks, as they like to sit on the floor and play their games. I think it's possible and in their future, as I'm not only in the IT field, but have been using and gaming on PCs for around 35 years now. They'll learn, they're just not ready yet.
I wanted to make the joke that letting kids play Bedrock is bad parenting. But it's what MS pushes and I think they only keep Java around to avoid someone reimplementing it.
I'm hearing great things about ClassiCube, the Minecraft Classic reimplementation that runs on a potato.
Probably what you really want to do is give the old PCs to the kids with a couple screwdrivers. Taking down, rebuilding, and futzing with the critical system settings of a computer that does not have to work should be a mandatory educational experience.
I mean, Minecraft Java itself runs just fine on a 2012 Bulldozer laptop running Tumblewed with a dedicated GPU. Just as well or better than the Switch version IMO.
I am curious about those MS DOS builds though.
I’m sure it’s become heavier in the time since, but I spent plenty of time in Minecraft on a 2009 27” iMac with an i5 750 CPU and very middling Radeon HD 4850 GPU, despite running at 2560x1440 and it not being particularly well optimized for macOS.
I have also heard really good things about minetest. I think it got a new name recently? I have a friend whom I haven’t talked to in a while who was quite crazy for it. Aparantly it had some amazing mods available for it.
Luanti which is a great name because it uses LUA for the games layered on the engine.
Its great, but suffers the same "Why should I use your weird chat program instead of Discord" problems. Especially for kids tethered to consoles (phones inclusive).
I think at 7 and 4 they're a print unprepared for tearing down and rebuilding computers.
Basically, I just need them to be able to play with a controller and I know I can mod that in to Java, but I don't need to but futz with and be trying to fix mods on a regular basis when there's already something that works.
I use the launcher that @kej linked for my kids. It work pretty well with the only issue being that when an update happens it doesn't run that updated version for a few days or something. This means that you can't play with other people who ARE using the updated version.
Unfortunately the kids that my son plays with are usually playing on a Switch/iPad/Xbox... otherwise I'd love push them to java. I'm sure you have similar issues.
Edit: I forgot... if you don't already have an android device then you can't actually buy the game. So if you're all apple then you'd basically need to borrow someones old tablet or phone just to log the play store from a real device so that you can actually buy the game.
Another option, if you don't own an Android device, you can emulate one using your current PC. I've used Android Studio for this personally, but I've heard there are other emulators which are faster and more efficient. Android Studio is pretty simple though, the virtual hardware manager is accessible from the opening splash screen, the only real "trick" is that you want to use a version of the OS which includes the Google Play store, since not all of the OS images available through the virtual hardware manager come with it by default.
Maybe Windows 10 IOT Enterprise LTSC 2021 is an option. It will be supported (getting security patches) until 2032.
I'll have to look into that, though I imagine a license for it isn't much cheaper than just buying new machines.
I only have one Windows machine left. The others are running Linux Mint.
Since I have two programs that I still need on occasion and they only run on Windows, I held my nose and upgraded my old machine to Windows 11 using Rufus to bypass the hardware checks. It works fine with Windows 11, though I did have to track down audio drivers. Realtek is no help with their onboard audio.
I ran O&O Shutup soon after the install, and I check it after each major update to the system. Honestly, I don't use Windows 11 enough to notice many differences between it and Windows 10. Windows has become an afterthought in my computing life these days.
My non-compliante Windows 10 computer can run World of Warcraft and Witcher 3. That is ridiculous.
Last I checked both of those should run under Linux fine, unless the now Microsoft-owned Blizzard took some steps to break it.
If those are literally your only two hop ship and flip them off on the way out.
Unfortunately WoW runs at 30fps on Linux on my machine.
I'll upgrade once the few pieces of software I run on my Windows box stops working. That's is currently only Zwift and TurboTax.