wervenyt's recent activity
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentLike I said, I'm not terribly worried about Sweden going full-tilt police state as a result of this. Other places, with more developed apparatuses of oppression? More so. Note that my first...Like I said, I'm not terribly worried about Sweden going full-tilt police state as a result of this. Other places, with more developed apparatuses of oppression? More so.
Note that my first comment here was a response to yours, and the attitude of shutting down conversation with emphasis on the personal danger and frustration you experience due to these infractions, while also saying you'd settle for easy reporting without the bounty. "We have to do something, why don't you take my pain seriously?" inhibits honest discourse about solving problems because it privileges any action, fueled by spite, that purports to improve things, even if it'd cause negative externalities that might (not, in this case) outweigh the benefits, regardless of the reality of the problems that victimize those being pandered to.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentIncrementalism, sure. Put bollards along bike lanes, tow people for offending repeatedly, employ more law enforcement tasked with identifying and peacefully resolving infractions. But not...Incrementalism, sure. Put bollards along bike lanes, tow people for offending repeatedly, employ more law enforcement tasked with identifying and peacefully resolving infractions. But not exchanging evils for convenience's sake, that's where I draw the line personally. It's not a dichotomy between "do nothing" and "fix problems". Just to clarify.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentIt is if the means of enforcement rely on untrained random citizens arbitrarily assuming the duty to report "the bad thing" for a bounty. That's the paranoia, not in thinking "hey, this is a bad...It is if the means of enforcement rely on untrained random citizens arbitrarily assuming the duty to report "the bad thing" for a bounty. That's the paranoia, not in thinking "hey, this is a bad place to park, I might even get fined".
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentI would not go that far, simply because it's not productive. In a real sense, sure, but so is refusing to rock the boat when coworkers start suggesting a union, or continuing to vote for the...reporting people blocking bike lanes if there's a financial reward for the reporting is a moral failure?
I would not go that far, simply because it's not productive. In a real sense, sure, but so is refusing to rock the boat when coworkers start suggesting a union, or continuing to vote for the Democrats or Republicans. Theoretically you could find a moral high ground to mock people from, but it's so costly as to be individually excusable. And that is a dangerous thing, to build systems that harm people for trying their best.
Otherwise, yes. Cleaning up the externalities of failures is a good way to keep the failing structures unexamined, especially in democracies where so much progress can only come from frustration with the status quo.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentIt fuels a culture of paranoia and implicit consent to secrecy in policing. On a very small scale in this case, but it's hazardous to spread around the responsibility of law enforcement in a...It fuels a culture of paranoia and implicit consent to secrecy in policing. On a very small scale in this case, but it's hazardous to spread around the responsibility of law enforcement in a system that still privileges the trained officials.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentThe compensation gives people a reason to go along with whatever the bounty is for, therefore disincentivizing a) real reform of the sources of problems, and b) people from pushing against new...The compensation gives people a reason to go along with whatever the bounty is for, therefore disincentivizing a) real reform of the sources of problems, and b) people from pushing against new bounties, as the profit motive gives people plenty of justification to compromise their morals. These things are culturally addictive, just look at another case of bribing the citizenry to vote against their own long term interests: the USA's use of prisons and the staffing needed to run them to "stimulate" locally stagnant economies.
The compensation is how totalitarianism justifies itself.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentBecause I'm tired of repeating myself: the issue is the bounty, not the laws around parking. Those were examples of where the reporting would be both unlikely to disincentivize the infraction as...Because I'm tired of repeating myself: the issue is the bounty, not the laws around parking. Those were examples of where the reporting would be both unlikely to disincentivize the infraction as well as lead to a reduced sense of responsibility for the fine compared to the generic decontextualized "wrongdoer".
There clearly isn't a categorical reason such a thing should be more harmful to the social fabric than breaking the law, so I assume you consider it a matter of degree. In that case I feel like comparing the effects of reporting traffic infractions to the effects of secret police forces in totalitarian states is more than a little disingenuous.
Are they being employed, invisibly from all outward appearance, to inform on legal infractions against their neighbors? Because that is very much like secret policing.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentBecause I'm tired of repeating myself: the issue is the bounty, not the laws around parking. Those were examples of where the reporting would be both unlikely to disincentivize the infraction as...Because I'm tired of repeating myself: the issue is the bounty, not the laws around parking. Those were examples of where the reporting would be both unlikely to disincentivize the infraction as well as lead to a reduced sense of responsibility for the fine compared to the generic decontextualized "wrongdoer".
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentThanks, I appreciate the relevant context for the article!Thanks, I appreciate the relevant context for the article!
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentThat net includes almost every crime, though, and the distinction I made is pretty significant. Illegal dumping by random civilians cleaning out their attics is probably not meaningfully being...That net includes almost every crime, though, and the distinction I made is pretty significant. Illegal dumping by random civilians cleaning out their attics is probably not meaningfully being reported by whistleblowers, even with the bounties. The area they're hopefully effective in is curtailing business owners and their management from believing they can get away with it.
Red light cameras are in the same camp, absolutely. At least there it isn't relying on inherently inconsistent random civilians, but it is still a situation where unsafe city planning decisions and diffuse coordination problems are being used to enrich a select few private individuals acting as middlemen, hence further disincentivizing their interest in supporting reform that removes a line of income. Social workers, acting as law enforcement officers, are effectively police. The gun doesn't make the civic purpose, the authority and (theoretical) responsibility do.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentI think that drivers who get fined will justify themselves as right to themselves, much like DWI repeat offenders who have access to public transit and cabs. Very few people are perpetrating the...I think that drivers who get fined will justify themselves as right to themselves, much like DWI repeat offenders who have access to public transit and cabs. Very few people are perpetrating the severe infractions you're focused on, and they're already disregarding laws and customs, so are very likely to have already come up with self-justifications that'd resist rational decision-making. I just think pollards would be a better use of money than bounties to try to effect change in this population's habits. Maybe my assumptions are wrong, though, and it's a huge number of offenders making what feel like small infractions, in which case more consistent enforcement would probably do quite a bit. I'd rather have police do the policing though (in theory).
Thanks for the link. It seems like those enumerated are all focused on 1. fraud perpetrated against the government and corruption, 2. large scale organizational crimes, and 3. environmental pollution. Those rewards exist to make up for reporting essentially torpedoing the whistleblower's career in at least the short term. Those are such a different kind of crime, and such different reasons for a lack of enforcement, that I'm unsure how they'd be indicative of probable outcomes from paying people to report other individual citizens for endangerment-scale infractions.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentI think you have a stronger faith in the average driver's ability to make such judgments than I do, after consideration. Well, fair. Also, that's a bad thing? And it can always get worse. But it...I think you have a stronger faith in the average driver's ability to make such judgments than I do, after consideration.
What interpersonal trust does a stranger have for you, or you for them at the moment? None that I see.
Well, fair. Also, that's a bad thing? And it can always get worse. But it isn't about cultural solidarity, just not creating or intensifying the norm of objectifying one another as "violators" for reward.
What whistleblower rewards exist for misdemeanors committed by individuals? I'm unfamiliar.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentIt's a contempt of court charge in the US, where "we don't have debtors prisons anymore". I have no clue about Swedish law, but I would be surprised if they didn't have analogous outcomes. How...It's a contempt of court charge in the US, where "we don't have debtors prisons anymore". I have no clue about Swedish law, but I would be surprised if they didn't have analogous outcomes.
How does impounding work? If someone tried to flee the punishment before the tow truck arrived, or tried to (even nonviolently) prevent a tow truck from hitching the car, or hid it to prevent impounding, what would be the legal result? In most jurisdictions, to my knowledge, at the end of these nonviolent avoidances of payment lies some form of unambiguous violence.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentA situation that could result in violence is not the same as a threat of imprisonment backing a fine. This is not ambiguous or even a controversial idea. These arguments aren't even good...A situation that could result in violence is not the same as a threat of imprisonment backing a fine. This is not ambiguous or even a controversial idea. These arguments aren't even good sophistry.
Governments monopolize violence. By the way you frame it, my argument would be "the army exists, so living is implied violence". What I said was limited to the issuance of punishment for a legal violation. Which specifically rests on the exercise of that monopoly, rather than coincidentally happening near it. Please stop with the bad faith argumentation.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentIt's an implication of violence. If it weren't, the fines would be voluntary. It strikes me as slightly more absurd to classify "illegally occupying space that is presumed to be open" as violence,...It's an implication of violence. If it weren't, the fines would be voluntary. It strikes me as slightly more absurd to classify "illegally occupying space that is presumed to be open" as violence, even if it implies reckless endangerment.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentWell, your personal investment doesn't really preclude my point. We're talking about a specific implementation of enforcement, not debating "should people block traffic dangerously?" I do...Well, your personal investment doesn't really preclude my point. We're talking about a specific implementation of enforcement, not debating "should people block traffic dangerously?" I do apologize for underplaying those risks, but it was really not my point to do so. I'm saying those scenarios are fairly inelastic, and not likely to respond to the fines regardless, and so these hazards are still very real even in a scenario where every asshat who would choose to park in the bike lane decides against it. Therefore, the degradation of interpersonal trust seems like a pretty big cost just so you could be paid to do what you'd already do for free.
Your characterization of my argument feels pretty inaccurate as a result. "Woe be the people who get fines unfairly!" is hardly my point. Like I said at the outset, it's very difficult to argue against being able to report these hazards. Taking huge chunks out of the context, like the profit motive defining the subject at hand, of a debate is so unreasonable that it's hard to take seriously.
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Comment on Swedish company Scout Park has launched a mobile app where you can tip off wrongly parked cars to traffic wardens to earn money in ~transport
wervenyt Link ParentWhile it's hard to argue against being able to easily report violations, it feels very dangerous to incentivize them. For one, it undermines the more basic levels of social trust that justify the...While it's hard to argue against being able to easily report violations, it feels very dangerous to incentivize them. For one, it undermines the more basic levels of social trust that justify the use of violence implied by policing when everyone you meet has a good* reason to make something up about you or another person, not to mention the 1-in-100 (or in 20 or whatever small-but-significant rate) cases where the person parking illegally
- did so because of another person's choices effectively forcing them, and therefore punishment is unlikely to disincentivize future behavior
- is genuinely only parked for a minute or so, and therefore isn't likely causing issues large enough to justify the hassle for anyone, let alone, again, the implied use of force
It's not like this is some slippery slope from "parking snitching" to a police state, but it's pretty well-documented that secret police forces alienate people from their communities and are a powerful tool for any totalitarian hopefuls, and there's no reason to believe this wouldn't normalize those same dynamics.
Much like the principle of assuming good faith in conversation may be unworkable at large scale, but assuming the opposite cannot foster better conversation even if it is necessary as a coping mechanism for people in those large-scale communities, perhaps the issue needs to be deconstructed some more before it can be addressed. Ideas like removing private automobiles from urban centers may be more difficult to bring into practice and lead to a wider set of externalities, but they're also much less likely to be applied selectively/abusively and would likely foster community in an opposite way to this easier approach's atomizing effect.
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Comment on Amid marijuana legalization, a civic problem lingers: that smell in ~life
wervenyt Link ParentPSA: As your cited study notes, most (94%) of such cases are assumed to be attributable to contamination with vitamin E acetate. That chemical has a superficial resemblance to oxidised THC...PSA: As your cited study notes, most (94%) of such cases are assumed to be attributable to contamination with vitamin E acetate. That chemical has a superficial resemblance to oxidised THC distillate, and so is fairly regularly used as a filler by black market vendors to save some money.
This isn't to say that people haven't purchased adulterated cartridges from legal dispensaries, but vitamin E is easy to test for. If you (reader) are scared by this information in a legal jurisdiction, there are other types of concentrate products with a much lower risk of such contamination, and many trustworthy producers and retailers happy to provide contaminant screening results, if you take the time to seek them out. If you are in a jurisdiction where cannabis is illegal, the best advice is not to purchase any distillate, and especially not carts.
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Comment on Album of the Week #25: D'Angelo - Voodoo in ~music
wervenyt LinkDespite being raised in a pro-Prince and soul household, I was a little young, and my parents a little old, for this album to enter my awareness prior to Black Messiah, just as I was getting...Despite being raised in a pro-Prince and soul household, I was a little young, and my parents a little old, for this album to enter my awareness prior to Black Messiah, just as I was getting deeper into hip-hop at that time. My first impressions were quite like yours, @TooFewColours. The melodies and the flair the musicians demonstrate were obviously excellent, but it was just too muddy and busy, but somehow plodding and discursive?, to hold any attention it grabbed. Even still, the Devil's Pie hook, The Line, and Chicken Grease all made great impressions, and there wasn't a second of Untitled that I didn't love.
Regardless, for a while there I'd have comfortably rated Brown Sugar "higher". Say what you will, but it's an album of just-about perfect crossover tracks. Groovy, sultry, upbeat, and clean. That last one was really the bridge for my taste: once my ear connected to D'Angelo (and whichever Soulquarians he wrote with most), when coming back to Voodoo, my appreciation skyrocketed. I wouldn't be foolish enough to rank them now. I can't even pick out any specific songs as highlights, at this point.
On coming back to it for this thread, the range of emotional tones in just the first few songs is immense and arresting. The bits of overheard conversation are excellent at building mood, but beyond them, the layers of nearly-random noise that work to release the tension built with the abstract structure of each song are fascinating and dread-inducing. Every end of a track seems to bring the listener into some tunnel, taking them from one place, one point of view, to another. Like walking between rooms in a dingy bar with multiple performance stages, or station surfing on the radio, except as you start to tune in, really get into the sense of a performance, and close your eyes and bob your head, you realize a different song is on, and you're missing the last one only long enough to love the newest.
Questlove's drumming (so inventively restrained!) and D'Angelo's vocal tones are the only companions that thread through every track, and it's incredible how such a "self-indulgent" album that stays firmly rooted in a single genre can encapsulate so many different emotions while A. remaining coherent and consistent, and B. so damn sexy. The way that sexuality has been integrated into the spirit of soul (forgive me pls) is endlessly interesting, the way that the traditions of gospel were subsumed into some of the most positive images of sexuality in American culture. This album captures that perfectly. It's directionless, it seeps and comes off every groove like waves, it's nonjudgmental and loving, and that is remarkably beautiful as much as it is probably alienating.
R&B and soul are my go-to genres to throw on in the background of a social occasion, and this is one of the only albums in them that I've been asked to turn off. Whether that's just the frenetic soundscape, or the meandering structures, or the goodwill horniness, or what, I don't blame people for not loving it. As I said above, it was hardly love at first listen for myself, but it does feel like this album is overlooked outside of specific communities.
My buried advice for anyone coming to it for the first time: listen to it with a real speaker system, or headphones with an open soundstage, if you can. The mix is really subtle, the textures of nearly every sound feel very precise and intentional, and cheap headphones or even high-end IEMs might still restrict what details you can pick out, and this is an album of details. It is not an album that builds to climax that awes and surprises (though Untitled is absolutely insane), the track length isn't there to build and build. It's slow and wandersome, so if you're not listening to the little things, you'll be bored out of your gourd.
I love how it's all so spacey, how it feels effortless and distracted, yet obviously couldn't be anything but the result of an enormous labor of love by everybody involved in its conception. That's not a common thing in any field of art, let alone one as collaborative as popular music.
Thanks for choosing this album, by the way, but damn your making me stay up to listen to it at 3 AM after seeing this post!
I meant to say that your approach to conveying your initial position had that effect, not that you were whining and trying to shut down conversation. I'm sorry for implying otherwise. Your first comment and immediate responses were of a significantly different tone than the following conversation, which were much more centered on your personal investment than the more productive exchange after the fact.
I'm not casting aspersions, I'm saying this, right here, is how division gets fostered. Real people have real pain, and sometimes that limits their perspective, just like people who haven't experienced it are usually unaware of the problems. And other people are afraid of communicating those limitations. And so only the least-competent communicators, since they're used to being told to fuck off, are willing to voice criticisms. And so their criticisms are automatically discredited, and so on.
And so have I. I haven't brought it up before because, obviously, it comes across as saying "well I'm not mad, why are you mad?" But just because I'm not upset doesn't mean I'm not qualified to have an opinion, and your first comments felt like they were closing off meaningful discussion. Your response was as reasonable as anyone's, and normal, and justified. I hope you can at least believe me when I say I didn't mean to accuse you of any moral failing or disingenuous tactics.