Oof... I think I remember reading some of the comments on that one too. This was only six months ago? I might have a memory disorder :/ hopefully this spaced repetition will make this a long-term...
Oof... I think I remember reading some of the comments on that one too. This was only six months ago? I might have a memory disorder :/ hopefully this spaced repetition will make this a long-term memory
I was reading through an essay this morning and was curious what the end result was (it seems I've swapped cause and effect) The artist, however, is mostly unfazed:
I was reading through an essay this morning and was curious what the end result was (one benefit of reading the news late!). The day after the essay was written (timezones?) it seems like people had enough of the art! (it seems I've swapped cause and effect)
The artist, however, is mostly unfazed:
Evaristti says he is already developing ways to revive the exhibition. One idea is to steal dead piglets from meat processing plants and present them to the public. He also wants to buy another three piglets â not to starve, but to auction to the highest bidder promising them a happy life.
"I got a lot of hate messages from around the world â I think people don't get that my art is about animals rights," Evaristti said.
âI think a lot of people donât get that my art is about animals rightsâ I think that part is painfully obvious. I think that the artist doesnât get that you donât need to violate animal rights to...
âI think a lot of people donât get that my art is about animals rightsâ
I think that part is painfully obvious. I think that the artist doesnât get that you donât need to violate animal rights to make a statement on them.
I wonder if it changed anyone's minds, or if it mostly outraged people who were already outraged by these things? And of those who did care because of this exhibit, how many of them changed their...
I wonder if it changed anyone's minds, or if it mostly outraged people who were already outraged by these things? And of those who did care because of this exhibit, how many of them changed their behavior it values as a result?
I'm skeptical that this had any positive impact on animal rights. Further, I'm skeptical that he was actually motivated by animal rights.
Given that far more than three piglets' worth of meat is wasted every second, he's an insignificant contributor to the overall useless suffering of pigs. But look at the discussion we're having....
Given that far more than three piglets' worth of meat is wasted every second, he's an insignificant contributor to the overall useless suffering of pigs. But look at the discussion we're having. Millions of people are having discussions about when it is and isn't ok to harm animals that wouldn't have happened otherwise. For the amount of suffering, a huge amount of awareness.
I get it. I remain skeptical that this will change many people's values. I suspect that a lot of people who thought hurting pigs was bad will still thank that. And a lot of them who think that but...
I get it. I remain skeptical that this will change many people's values. I suspect that a lot of people who thought hurting pigs was bad will still thank that. And a lot of them who think that but eat pigs anyway will continue to hold those contradictory views. And vegetarians will continue being vegetarian.
I just don't think he introduced anything new. Society is extremely hypocritical on animal rights, but that's been an open truth for a long time. I'm skeptical that it did what he wanted to do (unless he wanted to gain attention).
I think you're right that most people are set in their views, but lifetime meat consumption for a single American includes the equivalent of 27 pigs. If he convinced a single person to go...
I think you're right that most people are set in their views, but lifetime meat consumption for a single American includes the equivalent of 27 pigs. If he convinced a single person to go vegetarian, this is an improvement. Three piglets is a tiny, tiny example in the face of the 135-140 million pigs butchered per year in the USA alone. If this cruel gesture changes any minds at all it's a net gain.
Strong agree with @MimicSquid's reply above on this one, and I'll add that (from what I've read) Evaristti isn't presenting himself as an animal rights campaigner per se, he's presenting himself...
Strong agree with @MimicSquid's reply above on this one, and I'll add that (from what I've read) Evaristti isn't presenting himself as an animal rights campaigner per se, he's presenting himself as an artist making a statement about animal rights.
That might sound like a flimsy distinction, but to me at least it's a very different thing. An artist's job isn't necessarily to achieve an outcome - it's to provoke emotion, start conversation, communicate thoughts and ideas. I'd say he's massively succeeded in the artistic goal of saying "hey, face up to this uncomfortable issue on which you, the viewer of this installation, may well be a hypocrite". He's very clearly provoked emotion and conversation, or we wouldn't be here discussing it.
He didn't claim that this was the best possible way he could practically improve animal rights (although I actually do think he's probably had a meaningful but unquantifiable positive effect, just by causing discomfort in people through conversations like this one), just that his art is exploring the issue.
I agree! But isn't that the double standard? His art project is intolerable because of how it abuses animals, so why isn't meat production? Why isn't anybody stealing piglets from slaughterhouses...
I think that the artist doesnât get that you donât need to violate animal rights to make a statement on them.
I agree! But isn't that the double standard? His art project is intolerable because of how it abuses animals, so why isn't meat production? Why isn't anybody stealing piglets from slaughterhouses or farms? We should not normalise art projects like this, I agree, but the abuse of animals in the process of farming meat is deeply normalised. Maybe it's whataboutism, but that makes the outcry about the art project ring a little bit hollow to me...
Much like you don't show the world slaves are humans too by lynching them for an art project, neither does abusing animals show the world you're an animal friend. It's like people saying "you know...
Much like you don't show the world slaves are humans too by lynching them for an art project, neither does abusing animals show the world you're an animal friend.
It's like people saying "you know that's bad for you right" to a smoker. Yes, they know animals are being abused. By starving animals yourself you're convincing nobody, you're just adding to the suffering.
I agree with this. Those three pigs are individuals and will feel individual suffering. Turning them into numbers and saying it's okay because way more die in factory farms doesn't reduce the...
I agree with this. Those three pigs are individuals and will feel individual suffering. Turning them into numbers and saying it's okay because way more die in factory farms doesn't reduce the suffering those three are going to go through. Especially when it's unnecessary suffering.
The art installation is not okay. The suffering going on in factory farming is also not okay. Fighting suffering with more suffering leads to nowhere.
Sure it's in the news and people are talking about it. But I can't see this changing the minds of anyone who is adamant about eating meat.
People already know suffering is going on. There is a lot of suffering going on in the world among humans and animals. And many people pick and choose what they care about and ignore the rest.
Is picking and choosing what to care about and what to ignore okay? I don't know. That's a whole other conversation.
There are much better ways to attempt change and awareness without having to cause extra suffering.
Previous discussions can be found here.
Oof... I think I remember reading some of the comments on that one too. This was only six months ago? I might have a memory disorder :/ hopefully this spaced repetition will make this a long-term memory
Let's hope the passing of time sees this thread become less heated than the previous. Nobody wants another locked topic... đ
I was reading through an essay this morning and was curious what the end result was
(one benefit of reading the news late!). The day after the essay was written (timezones?) it seems like people had enough of the art!(it seems I've swapped cause and effect)The artist, however, is mostly unfazed:
âI think a lot of people donât get that my art is about animals rightsâ
I think that part is painfully obvious. I think that the artist doesnât get that you donât need to violate animal rights to make a statement on them.
The title of the piece is "And Now You Care" - I think the artist just disagrees with you about it being necessary.
I wonder if it changed anyone's minds, or if it mostly outraged people who were already outraged by these things? And of those who did care because of this exhibit, how many of them changed their behavior it values as a result?
I'm skeptical that this had any positive impact on animal rights. Further, I'm skeptical that he was actually motivated by animal rights.
Given that far more than three piglets' worth of meat is wasted every second, he's an insignificant contributor to the overall useless suffering of pigs. But look at the discussion we're having. Millions of people are having discussions about when it is and isn't ok to harm animals that wouldn't have happened otherwise. For the amount of suffering, a huge amount of awareness.
I get it. I remain skeptical that this will change many people's values. I suspect that a lot of people who thought hurting pigs was bad will still thank that. And a lot of them who think that but eat pigs anyway will continue to hold those contradictory views. And vegetarians will continue being vegetarian.
I just don't think he introduced anything new. Society is extremely hypocritical on animal rights, but that's been an open truth for a long time. I'm skeptical that it did what he wanted to do (unless he wanted to gain attention).
I think you're right that most people are set in their views, but lifetime meat consumption for a single American includes the equivalent of 27 pigs. If he convinced a single person to go vegetarian, this is an improvement. Three piglets is a tiny, tiny example in the face of the 135-140 million pigs butchered per year in the USA alone. If this cruel gesture changes any minds at all it's a net gain.
Strong agree with @MimicSquid's reply above on this one, and I'll add that (from what I've read) Evaristti isn't presenting himself as an animal rights campaigner per se, he's presenting himself as an artist making a statement about animal rights.
That might sound like a flimsy distinction, but to me at least it's a very different thing. An artist's job isn't necessarily to achieve an outcome - it's to provoke emotion, start conversation, communicate thoughts and ideas. I'd say he's massively succeeded in the artistic goal of saying "hey, face up to this uncomfortable issue on which you, the viewer of this installation, may well be a hypocrite". He's very clearly provoked emotion and conversation, or we wouldn't be here discussing it.
He didn't claim that this was the best possible way he could practically improve animal rights (although I actually do think he's probably had a meaningful but unquantifiable positive effect, just by causing discomfort in people through conversations like this one), just that his art is exploring the issue.
I agree! But isn't that the double standard? His art project is intolerable because of how it abuses animals, so why isn't meat production? Why isn't anybody stealing piglets from slaughterhouses or farms? We should not normalise art projects like this, I agree, but the abuse of animals in the process of farming meat is deeply normalised. Maybe it's whataboutism, but that makes the outcry about the art project ring a little bit hollow to me...
It's really quite simple. I'll get arrested for trespassing in a slaughterhouse.
Much like you don't show the world slaves are humans too by lynching them for an art project, neither does abusing animals show the world you're an animal friend.
It's like people saying "you know that's bad for you right" to a smoker. Yes, they know animals are being abused. By starving animals yourself you're convincing nobody, you're just adding to the suffering.
I agree with this. Those three pigs are individuals and will feel individual suffering. Turning them into numbers and saying it's okay because way more die in factory farms doesn't reduce the suffering those three are going to go through. Especially when it's unnecessary suffering.
The art installation is not okay. The suffering going on in factory farming is also not okay. Fighting suffering with more suffering leads to nowhere.
Sure it's in the news and people are talking about it. But I can't see this changing the minds of anyone who is adamant about eating meat.
People already know suffering is going on. There is a lot of suffering going on in the world among humans and animals. And many people pick and choose what they care about and ignore the rest.
Is picking and choosing what to care about and what to ignore okay? I don't know. That's a whole other conversation.
There are much better ways to attempt change and awareness without having to cause extra suffering.