There can be countless reasons but I don’t think it is entirely a coincidence that all three writers write fantasy. Fantasy readers have come to expect that anything should at the minimum be a...
There can be countless reasons but I don’t think it is entirely a coincidence that all three writers write fantasy. Fantasy readers have come to expect that anything should at the minimum be a trilogy and preferably a series with each volume a 1000 pages. It just creates stories that has tons of buildup but it becomes really hard to write a good endings for such endless scenarios. Maybe these writers are merely better at creating big worlds and less in crafting a complete story.
Add to that the interaction between the large, online fan bases and the multi-part saga that allows for months or years of intense discussion and speculation - it’s almost impossible to create...
Add to that the interaction between the large, online fan bases and the multi-part saga that allows for months or years of intense discussion and speculation - it’s almost impossible to create something that will be surprising but feel like it flows naturally with adequate foreshadowing. It’s not like a twist in a single novel that was hard to see coming, but if you re-read you can find all the hints.
You almost have to give up on writing a conclusion that hasn’t already been predicted by some nerd or another, and then even if it was planned all along, will it be derided as uninteresting, uninspired, or even worse ripping off of a fan theory?
Not everyone is part of the internet fandom and don't spend their free time reading theories about their favourite book series. The rumor is that D&D, the showrunners of Game of Thrones, made the...
it’s almost impossible to create something that will be surprising
Not everyone is part of the internet fandom and don't spend their free time reading theories about their favourite book series.
The rumor is that D&D, the showrunners of Game of Thrones, made the mistake of reading internet speculation of where the show is going and changed their existing plans just so that they could surprise everyone. Even though it didn't make sense in the larger plot.
Mass Effect 3 also has its story changed because fans had predicted the original ending, to similar fan outrage at what they actually ended up with. No one can know if people would be as upset at...
Mass Effect 3 also has its story changed because fans had predicted the original ending, to similar fan outrage at what they actually ended up with.
No one can know if people would be as upset at the original ending but there does seem to be a repeated failure path of trying to write something surprising rather than delivering on “promises“.
I've just finished reading A Day of Fallen Night, which is the prequel to The Priory of the Orange Tree, and what I've enjoyed about both books is that they're completely standalone. They're both...
I've just finished reading A Day of Fallen Night, which is the prequel to The Priory of the Orange Tree, and what I've enjoyed about both books is that they're completely standalone. They're both big, chunky books, but they also tell the full story. The prequel obviously has links to the first book, but it has its own story and doesn't leave you on a cliffhanger.
I'd really like to read more books in that style - just a fun romp in an interesting world, that doesn't constantly leave things open for the future. But I can also imagine that the economics of book publishing discourages that style of writing.
I know someone who writes fantasy novels. Their publishing deal is basically if the first novel sells enough, then write at least two more in the same storyline. Even if you wanted to, I imagine...
I know someone who writes fantasy novels. Their publishing deal is basically if the first novel sells enough, then write at least two more in the same storyline. Even if you wanted to, I imagine it is difficult to even be allowed to publish standalone unless you are already well established with a track record of good sales.
I agree with your last comment, so many fantasy novels seem to focus only on the world building and they become bloated messes that need volume upon volume. Pratchett did it well. His novels were...
I agree with your last comment, so many fantasy novels seem to focus only on the world building and they become bloated messes that need volume upon volume.
Pratchett did it well. His novels were amazing, he built a complex world but that wasn't focus. Every novel has an actual meaning and objective, and the world gets polished as a result. They are all standalone and fairly short, but still manage to say more that Name of the Wind.
The readers mirror the split in the author's priorities: those who want to read history textbooks on a fictional world and those who want a cohesive narrative.
The readers mirror the split in the author's priorities: those who want to read history textbooks on a fictional world and those who want a cohesive narrative.
I stopped reading fantasy for almost a decade just because I got burned by the Three Horsemen of Procrastination in a row. Found ASOIAF, read everything - waited, nothing came. Started The...
I stopped reading fantasy for almost a decade just because I got burned by the Three Horsemen of Procrastination in a row. Found ASOIAF, read everything - waited, nothing came. Started The Kingkiller Chronicle because the author explicitly promised that the trilogy was done, he just had to write it. Didn't. Then Scott Lynch did the same.
I didn't have the same issue with Sci-fi authors. There were good one-shots and longer series that actually ended.
What eventually brought me back to fantasy was The Stormlight Archive when I finally took the leap and read the 1000 page first book in a weekend.
I think the difference is that there are craftsmen and there are Artists.
The Three Horsemen of Procrastination are Artists and need inspiration to write, because they haven't had to develop their craft. In GRRM's case he's already a multimillionaire so he doesn't NEED to write anything, he might WANT to. Rothfuss seems like a perfectionist with an ego and has a bad case of writer's block because of it.
On the other hand people like Sanderson, Tchaikovsky and King are craftsmen. They sit down every day and just write. It doesn't matter what you write, as long as it's something. It's easier to edit something you've already written.
Is there more for Scott Lynch? I'm reading book 3 now. But I don't think there was any point going past the first one. The pirate book was just weird and the ending felt rushed. It wasn't bad,...
Is there more for Scott Lynch? I'm reading book 3 now. But I don't think there was any point going past the first one. The pirate book was just weird and the ending felt rushed. It wasn't bad, just odd.
Book 4 has no firm release date, but Lynch commented in 2022 that he sent new work on the series to his agent and editors. Personally, I'm content to wait for all three of these authors to release...
Book 4 has no firm release date, but Lynch commented in 2022 that he sent new work on the series to his agent and editors.
Personally, I'm content to wait for all three of these authors to release their next book at their own pace. If it never happens, that's fine too. I still had fun reading what was already released, and there's certainly no shortage of other great books to read instead!
I have a vague recollection of him posting a picture of a finished draft for the next book. On the other hand that was most likely pre-covid and I haven't heard anything since, so...
I have a vague recollection of him posting a picture of a finished draft for the next book.
On the other hand that was most likely pre-covid and I haven't heard anything since, so...
I don't know about Lynch, but I can understand why Martin and Rothfuss are stuck. It has less to do with artistry and more to do with writing yourself into a corner. Martin needs Dany to get to...
I don't know about Lynch, but I can understand why Martin and Rothfuss are stuck. It has less to do with artistry and more to do with writing yourself into a corner.
Martin needs Dany to get to Westeros. She doesn't have any reason to go. On top of that, if she leaves, all the people she freed will become slaves again. Her entire arc for the first five books will have been for nothing.
Rothfuss wrote a Mary Sue. He realizes it. How do you create conflict in a story when your main character is smarter and more talented than everyone while also possessing the powers of a god?
I think the story becomes less about the protagonist fighting the world and more about the protagonist fighting himself. It becomes something like a Greek Tragedy, I think - there's no doubt that...
How do you create conflict in a story when your main character is smarter and more talented than everyone while also possessing the powers of a god?
I think the story becomes less about the protagonist fighting the world and more about the protagonist fighting himself. It becomes something like a Greek Tragedy, I think - there's no doubt that Hercules will slay the hydra, but he must fight against that same rage lest he kill everyone he loves.
Kvothe is a flawed hero. He's really good at everything but routinely causes himself problems with his hubris, anger, and ego. When I think of Mary sue characters in popular fiction I think more along the lines of the main character in Ready Player One. (Said to be bad with girls but successfully courts the best girl, starts overweight but gets ripped in a montage halfway through the book for no clear reason, etc.)
If Dany is truly meant to go mad, then I'd say the arc in the first 5 books isn't for nothing. It just shows failure in the end and could help lead her to her Crazy Targaryen ending. But yes he's...
If Dany is truly meant to go mad, then I'd say the arc in the first 5 books isn't for nothing. It just shows failure in the end and could help lead her to her Crazy Targaryen ending. But yes he's written himself into a corner as he needs to bring all the characters back to Westeros but not do so rushed like the shows. I don't think he'll finish honestly and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same at this point.
There can be countless reasons but I don’t think it is entirely a coincidence that all three writers write fantasy. Fantasy readers have come to expect that anything should at the minimum be a trilogy and preferably a series with each volume a 1000 pages. It just creates stories that has tons of buildup but it becomes really hard to write a good endings for such endless scenarios. Maybe these writers are merely better at creating big worlds and less in crafting a complete story.
Add to that the interaction between the large, online fan bases and the multi-part saga that allows for months or years of intense discussion and speculation - it’s almost impossible to create something that will be surprising but feel like it flows naturally with adequate foreshadowing. It’s not like a twist in a single novel that was hard to see coming, but if you re-read you can find all the hints.
You almost have to give up on writing a conclusion that hasn’t already been predicted by some nerd or another, and then even if it was planned all along, will it be derided as uninteresting, uninspired, or even worse ripping off of a fan theory?
Not everyone is part of the internet fandom and don't spend their free time reading theories about their favourite book series.
The rumor is that D&D, the showrunners of Game of Thrones, made the mistake of reading internet speculation of where the show is going and changed their existing plans just so that they could surprise everyone. Even though it didn't make sense in the larger plot.
Mass Effect 3 also has its story changed because fans had predicted the original ending, to similar fan outrage at what they actually ended up with.
No one can know if people would be as upset at the original ending but there does seem to be a repeated failure path of trying to write something surprising rather than delivering on “promises“.
^Children of Time
Isn't that also the first part of a triology?
I've just finished reading A Day of Fallen Night, which is the prequel to The Priory of the Orange Tree, and what I've enjoyed about both books is that they're completely standalone. They're both big, chunky books, but they also tell the full story. The prequel obviously has links to the first book, but it has its own story and doesn't leave you on a cliffhanger.
I'd really like to read more books in that style - just a fun romp in an interesting world, that doesn't constantly leave things open for the future. But I can also imagine that the economics of book publishing discourages that style of writing.
I know someone who writes fantasy novels. Their publishing deal is basically if the first novel sells enough, then write at least two more in the same storyline. Even if you wanted to, I imagine it is difficult to even be allowed to publish standalone unless you are already well established with a track record of good sales.
I agree with your last comment, so many fantasy novels seem to focus only on the world building and they become bloated messes that need volume upon volume.
Pratchett did it well. His novels were amazing, he built a complex world but that wasn't focus. Every novel has an actual meaning and objective, and the world gets polished as a result. They are all standalone and fairly short, but still manage to say more that Name of the Wind.
The readers mirror the split in the author's priorities: those who want to read history textbooks on a fictional world and those who want a cohesive narrative.
I stopped reading fantasy for almost a decade just because I got burned by the Three Horsemen of Procrastination in a row. Found ASOIAF, read everything - waited, nothing came. Started The Kingkiller Chronicle because the author explicitly promised that the trilogy was done, he just had to write it. Didn't. Then Scott Lynch did the same.
I didn't have the same issue with Sci-fi authors. There were good one-shots and longer series that actually ended.
What eventually brought me back to fantasy was The Stormlight Archive when I finally took the leap and read the 1000 page first book in a weekend.
I think the difference is that there are craftsmen and there are Artists.
The Three Horsemen of Procrastination are Artists and need inspiration to write, because they haven't had to develop their craft. In GRRM's case he's already a multimillionaire so he doesn't NEED to write anything, he might WANT to. Rothfuss seems like a perfectionist with an ego and has a bad case of writer's block because of it.
On the other hand people like Sanderson, Tchaikovsky and King are craftsmen. They sit down every day and just write. It doesn't matter what you write, as long as it's something. It's easier to edit something you've already written.
Is there more for Scott Lynch? I'm reading book 3 now. But I don't think there was any point going past the first one. The pirate book was just weird and the ending felt rushed. It wasn't bad, just odd.
Book 4 has no firm release date, but Lynch commented in 2022 that he sent new work on the series to his agent and editors.
Personally, I'm content to wait for all three of these authors to release their next book at their own pace. If it never happens, that's fine too. I still had fun reading what was already released, and there's certainly no shortage of other great books to read instead!
I have a vague recollection of him posting a picture of a finished draft for the next book.
On the other hand that was most likely pre-covid and I haven't heard anything since, so...
I don't know about Lynch, but I can understand why Martin and Rothfuss are stuck. It has less to do with artistry and more to do with writing yourself into a corner.
Martin needs Dany to get to Westeros. She doesn't have any reason to go. On top of that, if she leaves, all the people she freed will become slaves again. Her entire arc for the first five books will have been for nothing.
Rothfuss wrote a Mary Sue. He realizes it. How do you create conflict in a story when your main character is smarter and more talented than everyone while also possessing the powers of a god?
I think the story becomes less about the protagonist fighting the world and more about the protagonist fighting himself. It becomes something like a Greek Tragedy, I think - there's no doubt that Hercules will slay the hydra, but he must fight against that same rage lest he kill everyone he loves.
Kvothe is a flawed hero. He's really good at everything but routinely causes himself problems with his hubris, anger, and ego. When I think of Mary sue characters in popular fiction I think more along the lines of the main character in Ready Player One. (Said to be bad with girls but successfully courts the best girl, starts overweight but gets ripped in a montage halfway through the book for no clear reason, etc.)
If Dany is truly meant to go mad, then I'd say the arc in the first 5 books isn't for nothing. It just shows failure in the end and could help lead her to her Crazy Targaryen ending. But yes he's written himself into a corner as he needs to bring all the characters back to Westeros but not do so rushed like the shows. I don't think he'll finish honestly and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same at this point.