This extract from the report provides a quick TLDR: Some other highlights: ... ... It should also be noted that the Chinese community is just as affected and angry as the Western community. From...
This extract from the report provides a quick TLDR:
Emails and files released by one of the administrators of the 2023 Hugo Awards indicate that authors and works deemed “not eligible” for the awards were removed due to political considerations. In particular, administrators of the awards from the United States and Canada researched political concerns related to Hugo-eligible authors and works and discussed removing certain ones from the ballot for those reasons, revealing they were active participants in the censorship that took place.
Some other highlights:
On June 5, Kat Jones asked McCarty for a “list or a resource you can point us to that elaborates on ‘other topics that may be an issue in China’?”
McCarty responded on June 5 at 7:18 pm saying “At the moment, the best guidance I have is ‘mentions of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, negatives of China’. I will try to get better guidance when I have a chance to dig into this deeper with the Chinese folks on the committee.”
On June 6, Kat Jones wrote an email to the administration group titled “Best Novel potential issues.” In the email, Jones raised concerns about the novels Babel, or the Necessity of Violence by R. F. Kuang and The Daughter of Doctor Moreau by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. Jones wrote that Babel “has a lot about China. I haven't read it, and am not up on Chinese politics, so cannot say whether it would be viewed as ‘negatives of China’” while adding that The Daughter of Doctor Moreau talked “about importing hacienda workers from China. I have not read the book, and do not know whether this would be considered ‘negative.’”
...
In an interview conducted on February 4 in Chicago, Dave McCarty said that the Chinese government was not indirectly involved in the Hugo Awards “except insofar as the government says what the laws are in the country. […] So the government of China says what's cool in China and the people just operate inside of the bounds of what's cool, which is exactly the same way that you and I work here.”
What McCarty appears to be referring to is self-censorship [...]
...
As Lacey explained in more detail in her apology letter, “We were told to vet nominees for work focusing on China, Taiwan, Tibet, or other topics that may be an issue in China and, to my shame, I did so. Understand that I signed up fully aware that there were going to be issues. I am not that naïve regarding the Chinese political system, but I wanted the Hugos to happen, and not have them completely crash and burn.”
It should also be noted that the Chinese community is just as affected and angry as the Western community. From the report:
When Vazquez was asked if he could help connect the authors with any fans in China who might comment for this report, he said “I’m sorry. They do not want to speak to the media even anonymously.”
As Vasquez stated in a follow-up comment, “I have a lot of love for Chinese fandom and my friendships and connections there run deep. That's a real and vibrant fandom there that is, like us, wanting very little to do with their government being involved in their fandom. They definitely don't think it's their government and instead think it's corporate interests or, even worse, a fan/pro organization. Honestly, they seem more scared by that than anything else which saddens me to see and despite multiple attempts to get them to share their story they seem really hesitant.”
...
It’s my sincere hope that in the years to come we all remember that the regular SF/F fans in China didn’t want this to happen. They are as horrified as Western fans are by all of this. Instead of blaming China’s genre fans, we should work to ensure this issue with the Hugo Awards never happens again.
A statement from the Glasgow 2024 Hugo Awards Chair has since been released, with Kat Jones resigning from the committee. This Esquire article from early Feb also provides information on other related controversies surrounding the 2023 Hugo Awards and Chengdu WorldCon.
Edit: After posting this, I saw this topic has been previously discussed here. Welp, just gonna leave this up anyway.
I mean at the risk of contributing basically nothing to this conversation. Is anyone really surprised? Seems like most events in China always have to pass through filters and other censorship...
I mean at the risk of contributing basically nothing to this conversation. Is anyone really surprised?
Seems like most events in China always have to pass through filters and other censorship mediums. Yet, people and orgs keep being surprised when it occurs - even though there is already a lot of evidence of this exact thing happening again and again!
I think the rest of the world needs to understand that if you want to conduct any kind of activity in China. You need to play by their rules. Don't like it? Then don't participate. Not saying I agree with it, but anyone who is surprised by this is just naive at this point.
As an avid SF fan I'm a little surprised that the Hugo awards allowed this event to happen with all of the censorship. If they care that much about SF and allowing authors freedom to write about whatever concerns them - just don't go to countries that have extreme levels of censorship.
This is missing the major part of this fiasco, I think - the censorship was not applied by the Chinese government or any representatives from China. It was applied by a group of Western admins on...
This is missing the major part of this fiasco, I think - the censorship was not applied by the Chinese government or any representatives from China. It was applied by a group of Western admins on the Hugos team who were preemptively censoring what they thought might be problematic.
It also ignores how much censorship in China is self-censorship. The Western admins did the thing and brought the "concerns" through Dave McCarty and almost certainly the actual government didn't...
It also ignores how much censorship in China is self-censorship. The Western admins did the thing and brought the "concerns" through Dave McCarty and almost certainly the actual government didn't directly step in. But culturally, for safety, you don't get close to crossing the line, you're not necessarily sure exactly where the line is, so you self-censor somewhere a good ten feet behind the line.
It's also interesting how bad they were at it. T Kingfisher/Ursula Vernon went to Tibet but won, Paul, the fan writer that didn't win partially due to allegedly going to Tibet... didn't.
This excerpt from the Esquire article I mentioned above will provide some context on why the convention was hosted in China: I don't think anybody was surprised that hosting the event in China...
This excerpt from the Esquire article I mentioned above will provide some context on why the convention was hosted in China:
In 2021, the voting process to select the host city for the 2023 convention became a lightning rod for conspiracy theories. Each year, anyone who purchases a membership in the World Science Fiction Society can vote on where WorldCon will be held two years later. In 2021, voters could choose between Chengdu and Winnipeg, Canada for the 2023 convention. “There were concerns that a couple thousand people from China purchased memberships [in the World Science Fiction Society] that year to vote for Chengdu,” says Jason Sanford, a three-time Hugo finalist. “It was unusual, but it was done under the rules.”
While Sanford welcomed the participation of new Chinese fans, other people were alarmed that many of the Chinese votes for Chengdu were written in the same handwriting and posted from the same mailing address. The chair of the convention that year, Mary Robinette Kowal, says some members of the awards committee wanted to mark those votes as invalid. “But if you’re filling out a ballot in English and you don’t speak English, you hand it to a friend who does,” she says. “And the translation we’d put in could be read as ‘where are you from,’ not ‘what is your address.’”
Eventually, a few votes were invalidated by the committee, but most were allowed to stand. “China has the largest science fiction reading audience on the planet by several magnitudes, and they are extremely passionate,” Kowal says.
Later, when Chengdu was announced as the winning site for the 2023 convention, more than 100 authors—including N. K. Jemisin, G. Willow Wilson, S. A. Chakraborty, and Tochi Onyebuchi—signed an open letter “in protest of serious and ongoing human rights violations taking place in the Uyghur region of China.” Other authors were concerned about the Chinese Communist Party’s history of censoring LGBTQ content, as well as material that criticizes the party’s government.
I don't think anybody was surprised that hosting the event in China resulted in censorship. It is, however surprising that the censorship was performed preemptively by the Western committee of the event.
Also, its obvious that we are all against the CCP, but there are close to a billion people living in China and some of those people would like to participate in and be part of the international SFF community, so its not very fair to exclude them due to the actions of their government.
You know the way how, many contests in Canada state they explicitly exclude Quebec, and in US exclude Virgin Islands Hawaii et？ We might have to adopt a new thing that's "everyone in the world...
You know the way how, many contests in Canada state they explicitly exclude Quebec, and in US exclude Virgin Islands Hawaii et？ We might have to adopt a new thing that's "everyone in the world except North Korea, China and [--]".
Is that unfair? No more unfair than not allowing atheletes who use performance enhancing substances to compete is unfair: a fair Hugo cannot even happen in China, so it shouldn't even have been on the list in 2021 as a potential.
It super sucks for the readers in China, just one of many horrible things about living in China. But including them and losing the fairness of the Hugo's entirely doesn't make them happier, included and freer world citizens. Setting yourself on fire is a poor way to keep another warm for one night. It's not about including them or excluding them: it's that including them implodes the thing they're trying to participate in.
Keep translating to Chinese: literature is one of the best ways for us to connect and inspire their next generation ; maybe help them set up their own Hugo.China ; let them vote for their own favorite and give the fans a shout ou every year -- we see you reading behind the great firewall, keep it up, we're reading with you (asynchronously) on the other side.
We didn't build the great firewall but we don't all have to live behind it. Keep good things out of the reach of the CCP so Chinese citizens have something left to rejoice over when the CCP dies.
I really disagree. If something's problematic, and it's not penalized (however lightly, or indirectly), it doesn't just basically condone the problem. It removes pressure that could act to reduce...
so its not very fair to exclude them due to the actions of their government.
I really disagree.
If something's problematic, and it's not penalized (however lightly, or indirectly), it doesn't just basically condone the problem. It removes pressure that could act to reduce the problem.
By allowing the "innocent citizens" of various problematic countries, such as China and Russia, a free pass since they're not their governments, it removes a source of pressure for those citizens to put pressure on their governments to change.
After all, that's the West's goal. Correct? To encourage, or even force (however politely) various autocratic and/or oppressive regimes to become not so. To encourage democracy, to promote freedom.
Are there Chinese scifi fans? Of course. Should they be excluded? Not individually, if they want to travel out of their oppressive country, away from their oppressive government's control.
But to move events like WorldCon (or the Olympics, major conferences, anything of the sort) into China (or Russia, Iran, etc) acts to legitimize the behavior of those governments. Especially when those events then (either due to direct Government action, or indirectly in a preemptive fashion for fear of Government action) continue the problematic behavior and actions.
WorldCon allowing itself to be hosted in China was a direct admission that they don't object to the Chinese government. That they collected money they probably really wanted for the votes just makes it worse IMO.
Maybe if the Chinese scifi community didn't have an outlet in the West, they'd be one more source of internal pressure on their government. Could that be the difference? I don't know, but I do know if everyone bends over backwards to allow the Chinese government to continue being oppressive dicks, there will be remarkably less pressure on them to not be thus.
If more of the factions and groupings within those countries were placed closer to a position where they feel compelled to change their governments, perhaps change would come about. And it would come about from within, which as I understand it is pretty much what is supposed to be the civilized thing.
Yup, I mean China and censorship go hand in hand, like China and IP theft or China and poor working conditions or China and cheating on exams. I don't really follow the awards, though I do use it...
Yup, I mean China and censorship go hand in hand, like China and IP theft or China and poor working conditions or China and cheating on exams.
I don't really follow the awards, though I do use it to find interesting new books to read. The moment I heard it was being held in China I fully expected that only books conforming to China's views would be allowed to be nominated.
I was talking about this with a friend and she sent me this, from Chuck Tingle’s tumblr. The whole thing is horrible but unsurprising, and yet I was still surprised and horrified by someone asking...
I was talking about this with a friend and she sent me this, from Chuck Tingle’s tumblr. The whole thing is horrible but unsurprising, and yet I was still surprised and horrified by someone asking someone else, “Are you slow?”
This extract from the report provides a quick TLDR:
Some other highlights:
...
...
It should also be noted that the Chinese community is just as affected and angry as the Western community. From the report:
...
A statement from the Glasgow 2024 Hugo Awards Chair has since been released, with Kat Jones resigning from the committee. This Esquire article from early Feb also provides information on other related controversies surrounding the 2023 Hugo Awards and Chengdu WorldCon.
Edit: After posting this, I saw this topic has been previously discussed here. Welp, just gonna leave this up anyway.
No you're good this is the outcome of everything and I'd debated a new post vs update. Both are good!
I mean at the risk of contributing basically nothing to this conversation. Is anyone really surprised?
Seems like most events in China always have to pass through filters and other censorship mediums. Yet, people and orgs keep being surprised when it occurs - even though there is already a lot of evidence of this exact thing happening again and again!
I think the rest of the world needs to understand that if you want to conduct any kind of activity in China. You need to play by their rules. Don't like it? Then don't participate. Not saying I agree with it, but anyone who is surprised by this is just naive at this point.
As an avid SF fan I'm a little surprised that the Hugo awards allowed this event to happen with all of the censorship. If they care that much about SF and allowing authors freedom to write about whatever concerns them - just don't go to countries that have extreme levels of censorship.
This is missing the major part of this fiasco, I think - the censorship was not applied by the Chinese government or any representatives from China. It was applied by a group of Western admins on the Hugos team who were preemptively censoring what they thought might be problematic.
It also ignores how much censorship in China is self-censorship. The Western admins did the thing and brought the "concerns" through Dave McCarty and almost certainly the actual government didn't directly step in. But culturally, for safety, you don't get close to crossing the line, you're not necessarily sure exactly where the line is, so you self-censor somewhere a good ten feet behind the line.
It's also interesting how bad they were at it. T Kingfisher/Ursula Vernon went to Tibet but won, Paul, the fan writer that didn't win partially due to allegedly going to Tibet... didn't.
This excerpt from the Esquire article I mentioned above will provide some context on why the convention was hosted in China:
I don't think anybody was surprised that hosting the event in China resulted in censorship. It is, however surprising that the censorship was performed preemptively by the Western committee of the event.
Also, its obvious that we are all against the CCP, but there are close to a billion people living in China and some of those people would like to participate in and be part of the international SFF community, so its not very fair to exclude them due to the actions of their government.
You know the way how, many contests in Canada state they explicitly exclude Quebec, and in US exclude Virgin Islands Hawaii et？ We might have to adopt a new thing that's "everyone in the world except North Korea, China and [--]".
Is that unfair? No more unfair than not allowing atheletes who use performance enhancing substances to compete is unfair: a fair Hugo cannot even happen in China, so it shouldn't even have been on the list in 2021 as a potential.
It super sucks for the readers in China, just one of many horrible things about living in China. But including them and losing the fairness of the Hugo's entirely doesn't make them happier, included and freer world citizens. Setting yourself on fire is a poor way to keep another warm for one night. It's not about including them or excluding them: it's that including them implodes the thing they're trying to participate in.
Keep translating to Chinese: literature is one of the best ways for us to connect and inspire their next generation ; maybe help them set up their own Hugo.China ; let them vote for their own favorite and give the fans a shout ou every year -- we see you reading behind the great firewall, keep it up, we're reading with you (asynchronously) on the other side.
We didn't build the great firewall but we don't all have to live behind it. Keep good things out of the reach of the CCP so Chinese citizens have something left to rejoice over when the CCP dies.
I really disagree.
If something's problematic, and it's not penalized (however lightly, or indirectly), it doesn't just basically condone the problem. It removes pressure that could act to reduce the problem.
By allowing the "innocent citizens" of various problematic countries, such as China and Russia, a free pass since they're not their governments, it removes a source of pressure for those citizens to put pressure on their governments to change.
After all, that's the West's goal. Correct? To encourage, or even force (however politely) various autocratic and/or oppressive regimes to become not so. To encourage democracy, to promote freedom.
Are there Chinese scifi fans? Of course. Should they be excluded? Not individually, if they want to travel out of their oppressive country, away from their oppressive government's control.
But to move events like WorldCon (or the Olympics, major conferences, anything of the sort) into China (or Russia, Iran, etc) acts to legitimize the behavior of those governments. Especially when those events then (either due to direct Government action, or indirectly in a preemptive fashion for fear of Government action) continue the problematic behavior and actions.
WorldCon allowing itself to be hosted in China was a direct admission that they don't object to the Chinese government. That they collected money they probably really wanted for the votes just makes it worse IMO.
Maybe if the Chinese scifi community didn't have an outlet in the West, they'd be one more source of internal pressure on their government. Could that be the difference? I don't know, but I do know if everyone bends over backwards to allow the Chinese government to continue being oppressive dicks, there will be remarkably less pressure on them to not be thus.
If more of the factions and groupings within those countries were placed closer to a position where they feel compelled to change their governments, perhaps change would come about. And it would come about from within, which as I understand it is pretty much what is supposed to be the civilized thing.
Yup, I mean China and censorship go hand in hand, like China and IP theft or China and poor working conditions or China and cheating on exams.
I don't really follow the awards, though I do use it to find interesting new books to read. The moment I heard it was being held in China I fully expected that only books conforming to China's views would be allowed to be nominated.
I was talking about this with a friend and she sent me this, from Chuck Tingle’s tumblr. The whole thing is horrible but unsurprising, and yet I was still surprised and horrified by someone asking someone else, “Are you slow?”