This was an interesting read, and resonates well with my observations of writers online over the years. This attitude towards rejection hasn't changed even 21 years later. I see people take any...
This was an interesting read, and resonates well with my observations of writers online over the years. This attitude towards rejection hasn't changed even 21 years later. I see people take any critique very personally, to the point that some groups have a soft-ban on any form of constructive criticism unless explicitly requested. Like, I've felt wary even pointing out a plot hole because the author forgot a detail because of the potential backlash, and once got lambasted for wanting to tell one fanfic writer that a certain mental illness didn't work the way a nurse character described (which particularly bothers me because that adds to general mental health stigma).
For all we harp on people for saying "kids are too darn soft and sensitive these days", we also don't really teach people how to handle rejection, genuinely impartial criticism, or failure in general. At most I remember brief aesops in cartoons and books to that effect, but this is something that isn't internalized so easily from a single episode of Arthur. It's an important lesson that not enough people really understand or discuss in the depth it needs.
This is especially important for creative fields, because once you get past the technical limitations like those mentioned in points 1-7 of the breakdown of manuscript rejections, the reader's takeaway is subjective. And everyone has different opinions and tastes. There is no work that has 100% universal acclaim with zero criticism, there will always be people who don't like it or disagree with the handling of certain parts. Reading some of those writers' responses to rejections by singular editors, I wonder if they could even handle the court of public opinion.
Side-note: I submitted a story to one magazine back in college and got rejected. I was disappointed and pretty sure my rejection was a form letter, but my conclusion wasn't anything like these. I reflected over it and concluded that while it fit the genre and general guidelines, my story just got a bit too dark and bleak for the magazine's intended tone and demographic. That was going through my mind when reading through the list of reasons for rejections: sometimes a story just doesn't match well with the publisher's existing library and target audience, and that's totally okay.
My view is that quality, honest, unforgiving feedback is one of the most valuable things for a writer. A lot of people will read my stuff and even writers will only tell me it's "great", or remain...
My view is that quality, honest, unforgiving feedback is one of the most valuable things for a writer. A lot of people will read my stuff and even writers will only tell me it's "great", or remain silent from which I'll assume "not great". If an editor who does not owe me anything provided with any pointers at all, I would be forever grateful. Such expertise which greatly exceeds my own is simply not something I could ever afford in other circumstances.
We really don't. I had a few experiences early in life that I feel became highly important for my mental health and resilience thereafter: charity donation begging. I did it for cadets / school /...
we also don't really teach people how to handle rejection
We really don't. I had a few experiences early in life that I feel became highly important for my mental health and resilience thereafter: charity donation begging. I did it for cadets / school / band / church, where I had to stand at a mall entrance for hours, usually with an older teen, and we just open doors for people desperate to ignore us, and we ask for donations, and wish them a Merry Christmas regardless. So, so, so many rejections. Dozens and dozens per hour of people pretending they don't see or hear you, so much so a straight "no" is welcomed, and the rare "yes" became unexpexted. It was like an vaccine to main character syndrome, a skin thickener: it wasn't personal, people just don't want to donate, or they already did, or they donate larger sums at home with tax return receipt. It's not about them and it's definitely not about me.
I do a similiar thing with the kid now, selling scout/guide cookies. It gets easier every time.
I never had many experiences outside, but I was trained to deal with criticism regarding my writing from an early age. My parents are journalists and, when they realized I had a knack for writing,...
I never had many experiences outside, but I was trained to deal with criticism regarding my writing from an early age. My parents are journalists and, when they realized I had a knack for writing, they familiarized me with both criticism and praise. When I was 12, I was on mailing lists full of excellent adult writers who did not take it easy on me! The achievement I am most proud of from that time was not being praised for my writing (which I'll just assume here was complete shit -- I was 12 for God's sake!), but rather being praised for my ability to take criticism like an adult and improve from it. I mean, even many adults have trouble dealing with criticism, and I already got the hang of it as a kid. That helped me a lot!
I'm not a writer but my kid might become one.....they're reading constantly, and has so many writing ideas and little short pieces of writing. How do I encourage them to finish pieces? How do I...
I'm not a writer but my kid might become one.....they're reading constantly, and has so many writing ideas and little short pieces of writing. How do I encourage them to finish pieces? How do I put her in touch with other writers for encouragement?
I am in a few online groups with young writers in my language. By far, the biggest differentiator between a good and a bad writer is their dedication to short stories. Those who devote themselves...
I am in a few online groups with young writers in my language. By far, the biggest differentiator between a good and a bad writer is their dedication to short stories. Those who devote themselves to writing novels are always worse than those who write short fiction. Writing novels is incredibly hard and complex, and not a step someone should take lightly. Short stories allow beginners to learn the basics of writing good sentences. I would suggest that you gift your kid awesome short story collections of authors and genres they like, and discuss each story with them.
Regarding encouraging them to finish their pieces, I think it wouldn't hurt to say something like "I like that, I am really curious to know how it ends!". But I wouldn't worry too much about that. It is normal to have lots of notes, and good practice. I would only stress to them to never lose these notes, as each piece of writing could eventually lead to something bigger.
I don't know which resources I would recommend for your kid to get in touch with writers online. I know there are multiple internet messaging groups, most certainly on Discord, but I would be wary of suggesting anything specific, given the toxic and harmful nature many groups can have. Even I was at risk back then on the mailing lists. Ideally, she should have access to a source of honest and unforgiving criticism, but I can't say right now where to find it while remaining safe. A local creative writing group might be helpful. Or perhaps she could simply have a blog to show her writing to the world?
In publishing, a slush pile is a set of unsolicited query letters or manuscripts that have either been directly sent to a publisher by an author, or which have been delivered via a literary agent representing the author who may or may not be familiar to the publisher (Wikipedia).
Ah, I actually assumed it already was in ~books and didn't even notice it was in ~creative. :P I really need to pay more attention to stuff like that. I have moved it there now though, since...
Ah, I actually assumed it already was in ~books and didn't even notice it was in ~creative. :P I really need to pay more attention to stuff like that. I have moved it there now though, since ~books probably is a far more appropriate group for this submission.
This was an interesting read, and resonates well with my observations of writers online over the years. This attitude towards rejection hasn't changed even 21 years later. I see people take any critique very personally, to the point that some groups have a soft-ban on any form of constructive criticism unless explicitly requested. Like, I've felt wary even pointing out a plot hole because the author forgot a detail because of the potential backlash, and once got lambasted for wanting to tell one fanfic writer that a certain mental illness didn't work the way a nurse character described (which particularly bothers me because that adds to general mental health stigma).
For all we harp on people for saying "kids are too darn soft and sensitive these days", we also don't really teach people how to handle rejection, genuinely impartial criticism, or failure in general. At most I remember brief aesops in cartoons and books to that effect, but this is something that isn't internalized so easily from a single episode of Arthur. It's an important lesson that not enough people really understand or discuss in the depth it needs.
This is especially important for creative fields, because once you get past the technical limitations like those mentioned in points 1-7 of the breakdown of manuscript rejections, the reader's takeaway is subjective. And everyone has different opinions and tastes. There is no work that has 100% universal acclaim with zero criticism, there will always be people who don't like it or disagree with the handling of certain parts. Reading some of those writers' responses to rejections by singular editors, I wonder if they could even handle the court of public opinion.
Side-note: I submitted a story to one magazine back in college and got rejected. I was disappointed and pretty sure my rejection was a form letter, but my conclusion wasn't anything like these. I reflected over it and concluded that while it fit the genre and general guidelines, my story just got a bit too dark and bleak for the magazine's intended tone and demographic. That was going through my mind when reading through the list of reasons for rejections: sometimes a story just doesn't match well with the publisher's existing library and target audience, and that's totally okay.
My view is that quality, honest, unforgiving feedback is one of the most valuable things for a writer. A lot of people will read my stuff and even writers will only tell me it's "great", or remain silent from which I'll assume "not great". If an editor who does not owe me anything provided with any pointers at all, I would be forever grateful. Such expertise which greatly exceeds my own is simply not something I could ever afford in other circumstances.
We really don't. I had a few experiences early in life that I feel became highly important for my mental health and resilience thereafter: charity donation begging. I did it for cadets / school / band / church, where I had to stand at a mall entrance for hours, usually with an older teen, and we just open doors for people desperate to ignore us, and we ask for donations, and wish them a Merry Christmas regardless. So, so, so many rejections. Dozens and dozens per hour of people pretending they don't see or hear you, so much so a straight "no" is welcomed, and the rare "yes" became unexpexted. It was like an vaccine to main character syndrome, a skin thickener: it wasn't personal, people just don't want to donate, or they already did, or they donate larger sums at home with tax return receipt. It's not about them and it's definitely not about me.
I do a similiar thing with the kid now, selling scout/guide cookies. It gets easier every time.
I never had many experiences outside, but I was trained to deal with criticism regarding my writing from an early age. My parents are journalists and, when they realized I had a knack for writing, they familiarized me with both criticism and praise. When I was 12, I was on mailing lists full of excellent adult writers who did not take it easy on me! The achievement I am most proud of from that time was not being praised for my writing (which I'll just assume here was complete shit -- I was 12 for God's sake!), but rather being praised for my ability to take criticism like an adult and improve from it. I mean, even many adults have trouble dealing with criticism, and I already got the hang of it as a kid. That helped me a lot!
I'm not a writer but my kid might become one.....they're reading constantly, and has so many writing ideas and little short pieces of writing. How do I encourage them to finish pieces? How do I put her in touch with other writers for encouragement?
I am in a few online groups with young writers in my language. By far, the biggest differentiator between a good and a bad writer is their dedication to short stories. Those who devote themselves to writing novels are always worse than those who write short fiction. Writing novels is incredibly hard and complex, and not a step someone should take lightly. Short stories allow beginners to learn the basics of writing good sentences. I would suggest that you gift your kid awesome short story collections of authors and genres they like, and discuss each story with them.
Regarding encouraging them to finish their pieces, I think it wouldn't hurt to say something like "I like that, I am really curious to know how it ends!". But I wouldn't worry too much about that. It is normal to have lots of notes, and good practice. I would only stress to them to never lose these notes, as each piece of writing could eventually lead to something bigger.
I don't know which resources I would recommend for your kid to get in touch with writers online. I know there are multiple internet messaging groups, most certainly on Discord, but I would be wary of suggesting anything specific, given the toxic and harmful nature many groups can have. Even I was at risk back then on the mailing lists. Ideally, she should have access to a source of honest and unforgiving criticism, but I can't say right now where to find it while remaining safe. A local creative writing group might be helpful. Or perhaps she could simply have a blog to show her writing to the world?
I mean, on the subject, Tildes itself might be an avenue for her writing! https://tildes.net/~creative/1nrv/announcing_the_tildes_short_story_exchange
Thanks lou :) I've bookmarked your response for reference, and would you kindly add me to the ping list?
Absolutely, my friend ;)
It now occurs me that this might be in ~books. I'll let my friend @cfabbro decide.
Ah, I actually assumed it already was in ~books and didn't even notice it was in ~creative. :P I really need to pay more attention to stuff like that. I have moved it there now though, since ~books probably is a far more appropriate group for this submission.