Not entirely related to the topic at hand, but I’m so desperately hopeful that US schools follow suit before our toddler reaches “cell phone age” (whatever age that may be by the mid-late 2030s)....
Not entirely related to the topic at hand, but
The Swedish government also plans to make schools cellphone-free throughout the country.
I’m so desperately hopeful that US schools follow suit before our toddler reaches “cell phone age” (whatever age that may be by the mid-late 2030s). I know some are beginning to go that way, but it’s not enough IMO. My wife and I would love to keep the phone out of the kiddo’s hands during the school day but we also don’t want him to be socially ostracized because he has “those parents.” Schools making the call on our behalf would be such a weight lifted off our shoulders.
I can empathize a lot with your position - having a kid about to start kindergarten myself shortly - but my piece of advice is just be "those parents." Its better to have well adjusted kids than...
I can empathize a lot with your position - having a kid about to start kindergarten myself shortly - but my piece of advice is just be "those parents." Its better to have well adjusted kids than for them to fit in because of what they own.
Anecdote - a colleague of my recently got a house phone installed. Two cordless phones in the house and its just for the kids. The other kids have the number and that's how they contact each other. I honestly think we will do the same when the time is right.
I agree. There's a critical mass that, once reached in your neighborhood, not having a phone means not participating in the dominant form of socialization among your peers. I experienced a lesser...
I agree. There's a critical mass that, once reached in your neighborhood, not having a phone means not participating in the dominant form of socialization among your peers. I experienced a lesser version of this in my my twenties when I passed on the Facebook bandwagon. It wasn't long before I wasn't invited to things, didn't get pictures. When I did it was extra effort just to share things with me after sharing them with everyone else, which only lasts for a while before people get tired of it. I wasn't cut out, but I effectively cut myself out by not subscribing to feed-based socialization.
I'd like opt out to be a strategy, and it is, but depending on your kid's social circle, the sacrifice may be very real. I definitely think kids are better off without phones, social media, infinite scrolling, and "algorithm"-fed content. But in the same way that I think humans are. As long as people flock to these platforms/behaviors in adulthood, I don't see them seriously protecting their children from them.
I don’t have anything to add, other than the fact that this thread very accurately outlined the dissonance in my brain over all of this, so thank you all for saving me the time to respond properly 😅
I don’t have anything to add, other than the fact that this thread very accurately outlined the dissonance in my brain over all of this, so thank you all for saving me the time to respond properly 😅
I'm honestly kinda surprised this isn't already standard policy in schools? It certainly was when I was in school 15 years ago, cell phones weren't allowed to be out or on during school hours....
I'm honestly kinda surprised this isn't already standard policy in schools? It certainly was when I was in school 15 years ago, cell phones weren't allowed to be out or on during school hours. You'd get in trouble if it went off during class because you were supposed to keep it off in your locker during the school day. Of course it was impossible to avoid kids sneakily breaking that rule but phones were a lot smaller back then. I don't think total phone bans are good (they can be useful to contact parents after school or when you need to go home sick) but not having phones in class seems like an obvious policy.
Kind of a weird boomerang effect. I agree that it was the norm ~15-20 years ago, but as phones became more ubiquitous, it quickly became a losing battle. Schools became the weird ones for cracking...
Kind of a weird boomerang effect. I agree that it was the norm ~15-20 years ago, but as phones became more ubiquitous, it quickly became a losing battle. Schools became the weird ones for cracking down so hard on what was seen as an integral part of one’s life. As a former teacher, I actually had parents confront me for removing phones in the classroom because they felt that they wouldn’t be able to reach their child in the case of an emergency. Which, yeah, also being in the U.S., that’s a whole other can of worms I won’t open for now. Suffices to say that the current state sucks IMO, as both a former educator and a future schoolchild’s parent.
I mean, it seems like "phones are allowed to be physically present in the classroom but only off/silent in a bag or pocket. If it's out, it gets taken until the end of class and you get written...
I mean, it seems like "phones are allowed to be physically present in the classroom but only off/silent in a bag or pocket. If it's out, it gets taken until the end of class and you get written up" would still be a totally workable policy in a modern school, imo, that balances the kid's ability to use the phone in an emergency with them not disrupting class. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of pushback from Millennial parents on something like that, though.
On paper, what you’re describing makes perfect sense! In practice, the whole thing is insidious. It’s a constant struggle to keep things consistent, even with those policies in place. The real...
On paper, what you’re describing makes perfect sense! In practice, the whole thing is insidious. It’s a constant struggle to keep things consistent, even with those policies in place. The real issue is the moment class ends. It doesn’t matter how “under wraps” things are in the classrooms when every single kid uses their phones in the halls between class to catch up. It’s like a second school day within the school day, just kids catching up on phones. And that’s where a ton of bullying and ostracizing goes on, those quick little five minute spurts. Parents don’t help a bit - they are usually okay with kids giving up phones for a single period of the day, but the idea of losing contact with their kids all day is unfathomable to many of them. It’s just a mess.
I don't necessarily think the between-classes social element is unique to phones, and I can understand where parents are coming from more on that front, especially at US schools.
I don't necessarily think the between-classes social element is unique to phones, and I can understand where parents are coming from more on that front, especially at US schools.
I get what you’re saying - it’s a grey area. Those things will happen regardless, agreed, but I can say from experience that they are just so much worse when you’re dealing with (virtually) 100%...
I get what you’re saying - it’s a grey area. Those things will happen regardless, agreed, but I can say from experience that they are just so much worse when you’re dealing with (virtually) 100% of the student body being connected to every rumor, every diss, every whatever in a social situation between classes, vs. whomever you happen to walk by in the hallway during those five minutes.
(Edit: acknowledging that I agree with your comment on US schools & communication specifically but I don’t have the emotional energy to acknowledge it any further; no idea how to tackle that one given the current climate here, everything sucks)
Same thing happening in Finland down to the cellphone thing, as well. I can't imagine having gone through school with a laptop in front of me - I would've been absolutely cooked.
Same thing happening in Finland down to the cellphone thing, as well. I can't imagine having gone through school with a laptop in front of me - I would've been absolutely cooked.
Not entirely related to the topic at hand, but
I’m so desperately hopeful that US schools follow suit before our toddler reaches “cell phone age” (whatever age that may be by the mid-late 2030s). I know some are beginning to go that way, but it’s not enough IMO. My wife and I would love to keep the phone out of the kiddo’s hands during the school day but we also don’t want him to be socially ostracized because he has “those parents.” Schools making the call on our behalf would be such a weight lifted off our shoulders.
I can empathize a lot with your position - having a kid about to start kindergarten myself shortly - but my piece of advice is just be "those parents." Its better to have well adjusted kids than for them to fit in because of what they own.
Anecdote - a colleague of my recently got a house phone installed. Two cordless phones in the house and its just for the kids. The other kids have the number and that's how they contact each other. I honestly think we will do the same when the time is right.
Part of being well-adjusted is feeling like you fit in with those around you.
I agree. There's a critical mass that, once reached in your neighborhood, not having a phone means not participating in the dominant form of socialization among your peers. I experienced a lesser version of this in my my twenties when I passed on the Facebook bandwagon. It wasn't long before I wasn't invited to things, didn't get pictures. When I did it was extra effort just to share things with me after sharing them with everyone else, which only lasts for a while before people get tired of it. I wasn't cut out, but I effectively cut myself out by not subscribing to feed-based socialization.
I'd like opt out to be a strategy, and it is, but depending on your kid's social circle, the sacrifice may be very real. I definitely think kids are better off without phones, social media, infinite scrolling, and "algorithm"-fed content. But in the same way that I think humans are. As long as people flock to these platforms/behaviors in adulthood, I don't see them seriously protecting their children from them.
I don’t have anything to add, other than the fact that this thread very accurately outlined the dissonance in my brain over all of this, so thank you all for saving me the time to respond properly 😅
I'm honestly kinda surprised this isn't already standard policy in schools? It certainly was when I was in school 15 years ago, cell phones weren't allowed to be out or on during school hours. You'd get in trouble if it went off during class because you were supposed to keep it off in your locker during the school day. Of course it was impossible to avoid kids sneakily breaking that rule but phones were a lot smaller back then. I don't think total phone bans are good (they can be useful to contact parents after school or when you need to go home sick) but not having phones in class seems like an obvious policy.
Kind of a weird boomerang effect. I agree that it was the norm ~15-20 years ago, but as phones became more ubiquitous, it quickly became a losing battle. Schools became the weird ones for cracking down so hard on what was seen as an integral part of one’s life. As a former teacher, I actually had parents confront me for removing phones in the classroom because they felt that they wouldn’t be able to reach their child in the case of an emergency. Which, yeah, also being in the U.S., that’s a whole other can of worms I won’t open for now. Suffices to say that the current state sucks IMO, as both a former educator and a future schoolchild’s parent.
I mean, it seems like "phones are allowed to be physically present in the classroom but only off/silent in a bag or pocket. If it's out, it gets taken until the end of class and you get written up" would still be a totally workable policy in a modern school, imo, that balances the kid's ability to use the phone in an emergency with them not disrupting class. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of pushback from Millennial parents on something like that, though.
On paper, what you’re describing makes perfect sense! In practice, the whole thing is insidious. It’s a constant struggle to keep things consistent, even with those policies in place. The real issue is the moment class ends. It doesn’t matter how “under wraps” things are in the classrooms when every single kid uses their phones in the halls between class to catch up. It’s like a second school day within the school day, just kids catching up on phones. And that’s where a ton of bullying and ostracizing goes on, those quick little five minute spurts. Parents don’t help a bit - they are usually okay with kids giving up phones for a single period of the day, but the idea of losing contact with their kids all day is unfathomable to many of them. It’s just a mess.
I don't necessarily think the between-classes social element is unique to phones, and I can understand where parents are coming from more on that front, especially at US schools.
I get what you’re saying - it’s a grey area. Those things will happen regardless, agreed, but I can say from experience that they are just so much worse when you’re dealing with (virtually) 100% of the student body being connected to every rumor, every diss, every whatever in a social situation between classes, vs. whomever you happen to walk by in the hallway during those five minutes.
(Edit: acknowledging that I agree with your comment on US schools & communication specifically but I don’t have the emotional energy to acknowledge it any further; no idea how to tackle that one given the current climate here, everything sucks)
Same thing happening in Finland down to the cellphone thing, as well. I can't imagine having gone through school with a laptop in front of me - I would've been absolutely cooked.