If you'd rather have a PDF This story was recommended to me and I think it is interesting not just for its story of humanity's reliance on machines, but for predictions of future technology. On...
This story was recommended to me and I think it is interesting not just for its story of humanity's reliance on machines, but for predictions of future technology. On the first page alone there's electronic music, an electronic armchair, video calls (along with Do Not Disturb) and the title of the chapter tells you about an airship.
I have not finished it yet but I'm hopeful other folks will read it too (and if we hate it in the end that can be just as interesting.
Just finished it - I found it apt and interesting, but what really shocked me was when I finished it, and saw that it was published in .... 1909??? I guess I scrolled past the header and just...
Just finished it - I found it apt and interesting, but what really shocked me was when I finished it, and saw that it was published in .... 1909??? I guess I scrolled past the header and just jumped into the story, missing that little tidbit.
Thinking about that, I'm reminded of the foreword to Neuromancer by William Gibson- in it, he talks about how when he tried to predict around technologies he understood (payphones, for example), his fiction aged horribly, and when he tried to predict around technologies for which he had little to no basis in reality (virtual reality I guess?) they ended up being a lot more timeless. I guess human nature is a lot more consistent than any technology. The fact that someone could write about being coddled into infant-like complacency more than 100 years ago and feel plausible now makes me wonder if it's something innate to human nature, to seek comfort to the point of self destruction?
In short, I enjoyed the story but it was bleak and makes me worried for humanity :(
My hope is that it's more that these fears are fairly innate to humanity, and thus come out in our art, whether in this story or in Wall-E and that it says more about our fears than our actual...
My hope is that it's more that these fears are fairly innate to humanity, and thus come out in our art, whether in this story or in Wall-E and that it says more about our fears than our actual trajectory as a species.
It's remarkable how clearly it predicts things like the internet nearly a century before it became mainstream. And some of the imagery wouldn't be out of place in WALL-E. Another good story in...
It's remarkable how clearly it predicts things like the internet nearly a century before it became mainstream. And some of the imagery wouldn't be out of place in WALL-E.
Another good story in this vein is "Pump Six" by Paolo Bacigalupi, from his anthology of the same name. It's more contemporary (2008) and less fantastical, but deals with the same core idea of society descending into hedonism and decadence as it collectively forgets how to maintain the infrastructure that makes it sustainable.
And on that note I'd like to recommend Metropolis (1927). It's ultimately about relations between the poor working class in inhumane industrial conditions and the aristocratic factory owners,...
the same core idea of society descending into hedonism and decadence as it collectively forgets how to maintain the infrastructure that makes it sustainable.
And on that note I'd like to recommend Metropolis (1927). It's ultimately about relations between the poor working class in inhumane industrial conditions and the aristocratic factory owners, which eventually reach a boiling point as the former become radicalised and the latter become corrupt and hedonistic, both from a plot to destroy the city. Despite the silent monochrome format, it's surprisingly accessible and easy to understand.
I'll have to look up that story too, but it looks like it's only in the collection it was written for alas. Maybe I can snag it from the library. I'm always impressed at the imagination of writers...
I'll have to look up that story too, but it looks like it's only in the collection it was written for alas. Maybe I can snag it from the library.
I'm always impressed at the imagination of writers when I have barely a thought to put to a page myself. Creating worlds is wonderful
That's one of my favorite classics. It's very spot on about technology's effect on society. Another prescient aspect was how people were endlessly commenting on other people's comments about an...
That's one of my favorite classics. It's very spot on about technology's effect on society. Another prescient aspect was how people were endlessly commenting on other people's comments about an event rather than the event itself.
Thank you for posting this, I ended up reading this yesterday via the .PDF form. I've only read one of E M Forster's works before (Where Angels Fear to Tread) and have been intending to read more....
Thank you for posting this, I ended up reading this yesterday via the .PDF form. I've only read one of E M Forster's works before (Where Angels Fear to Tread) and have been intending to read more.
What an incredibly salient piece of literature, and incredibly prescient as already mentioned in this thread. One wonders whether Aldous Huxley and George Orwell had engaged with this, as not-yet-fleshed-out elements of their seminal works are perceptible in Forster's work — the Central Committee, the modification of language in respect to the names of countries and continents, the omni-present dulled opiate sensation the machine gives, the religious nature the machine adopts.
I'm impressed with how many topics the work managers to cover, as it reaches beyond simply critiquing an over-reliance on technology to criticising elements of academia, as well as emphasising the role of communication amongst our species. Two moments which particularly stood out to me
And that white stuff in the cracks — what is it?
I have forgotten its name.
and:
Let your ideas be second-hand, and if possible tenth-hand ... seraphically free, from taint of personality.
For the former, you can easily transpose 'snow' with a bird, fish, tree, or flower for a more modern take, as many younger people no longer know the names of these artefacts of nature which their (grand)parents would likely know by heart. The latter is a beautifully critical view of academia and second-hand reporting in general, when we learn about a topic through X who is reporting on Y's work who is interpreting Z's work based on an event experienced by Q it's undeniable that something is certainly lost in terms of passion and emotion. Is it necessarily a bad thing? I am not so sure, as each of these people can contribute collectively, even if indirectly, to the topic at hand.
For a more critical point, I would also remark that many of these texts which lament the idea that 'people have forgotten to do X, so we are doomed if X breaks' hasn't yet played out in society. I am certain that people in 1909 and before that were lamenting that fewer and fewer people knew how to do <insert specific technical skill here>, and, yet, this hasn't caused any catastrophic event in our world. Year by year, I imagine that those in the sciences and technology move farther away from the fully concrete and to the abstract — how many people with degrees in Computer Science could really physically create the components of a PC and write in Assembly? Not many, and yet we aren't seeing a catastrophe rise out of this.
Overall, fantastic piece of literature, thank you genuinely for sharing it!
Ooh I'm very curious about the impact of this story on other writers. I bet someone has done this thesis! Thanks for your thanks, you've left me thinking even more! I went and looked up Forster,...
Ooh I'm very curious about the impact of this story on other writers. I bet someone has done this thesis! Thanks for your thanks, you've left me thinking even more!
I went and looked up Forster, he was a conscientious objector in WWI, and his last novel wasn't published before his death because it was about a same sex relationship and he didn't want to out himself. He was a humanist and testified in the defense of Lady Chatterley's Lover during the obscenity trial.
For his time he seems like a cool guy! And Orwell knew of him and hired him (in Orwell's role at the BBC.) and I found a few theses, like this one (PDF warning), but haven't read them.
I feel there's something ironic about the idea of reading a thesis like that after my previous admiration for the quote: Haha! I did give it a quick peruse and this short story in question doesn't...
I feel there's something ironic about the idea of reading a thesis like that after my previous admiration for the quote:
Let your ideas be second-hand, and if possible tenth-hand ... seraphically free, from taint of personality.
Haha!
I did give it a quick peruse and this short story in question doesn't appear there often, but I will try and read it in some more depth later, looks interesting - thanks!
If you'd rather have a PDF
This story was recommended to me and I think it is interesting not just for its story of humanity's reliance on machines, but for predictions of future technology. On the first page alone there's electronic music, an electronic armchair, video calls (along with Do Not Disturb) and the title of the chapter tells you about an airship.
I have not finished it yet but I'm hopeful other folks will read it too (and if we hate it in the end that can be just as interesting.
Just finished it - I found it apt and interesting, but what really shocked me was when I finished it, and saw that it was published in .... 1909??? I guess I scrolled past the header and just jumped into the story, missing that little tidbit.
Thinking about that, I'm reminded of the foreword to Neuromancer by William Gibson- in it, he talks about how when he tried to predict around technologies he understood (payphones, for example), his fiction aged horribly, and when he tried to predict around technologies for which he had little to no basis in reality (virtual reality I guess?) they ended up being a lot more timeless. I guess human nature is a lot more consistent than any technology. The fact that someone could write about being coddled into infant-like complacency more than 100 years ago and feel plausible now makes me wonder if it's something innate to human nature, to seek comfort to the point of self destruction?
In short, I enjoyed the story but it was bleak and makes me worried for humanity :(
My hope is that it's more that these fears are fairly innate to humanity, and thus come out in our art, whether in this story or in Wall-E and that it says more about our fears than our actual trajectory as a species.
It's remarkable how clearly it predicts things like the internet nearly a century before it became mainstream. And some of the imagery wouldn't be out of place in WALL-E.
Another good story in this vein is "Pump Six" by Paolo Bacigalupi, from his anthology of the same name. It's more contemporary (2008) and less fantastical, but deals with the same core idea of society descending into hedonism and decadence as it collectively forgets how to maintain the infrastructure that makes it sustainable.
And on that note I'd like to recommend Metropolis (1927). It's ultimately about relations between the poor working class in inhumane industrial conditions and the aristocratic factory owners, which eventually reach a boiling point as the former become radicalised and the latter become corrupt and hedonistic, both from a plot to destroy the city. Despite the silent monochrome format, it's surprisingly accessible and easy to understand.
I'll have to look up that story too, but it looks like it's only in the collection it was written for alas. Maybe I can snag it from the library.
I'm always impressed at the imagination of writers when I have barely a thought to put to a page myself. Creating worlds is wonderful
That's one of my favorite classics. It's very spot on about technology's effect on society. Another prescient aspect was how people were endlessly commenting on other people's comments about an event rather than the event itself.
Thank you for posting this, I ended up reading this yesterday via the .PDF form. I've only read one of E M Forster's works before (Where Angels Fear to Tread) and have been intending to read more.
What an incredibly salient piece of literature, and incredibly prescient as already mentioned in this thread. One wonders whether Aldous Huxley and George Orwell had engaged with this, as not-yet-fleshed-out elements of their seminal works are perceptible in Forster's work — the Central Committee, the modification of language in respect to the names of countries and continents, the omni-present dulled opiate sensation the machine gives, the religious nature the machine adopts.
I'm impressed with how many topics the work managers to cover, as it reaches beyond simply critiquing an over-reliance on technology to criticising elements of academia, as well as emphasising the role of communication amongst our species. Two moments which particularly stood out to me
and:
For the former, you can easily transpose 'snow' with a bird, fish, tree, or flower for a more modern take, as many younger people no longer know the names of these artefacts of nature which their (grand)parents would likely know by heart. The latter is a beautifully critical view of academia and second-hand reporting in general, when we learn about a topic through X who is reporting on Y's work who is interpreting Z's work based on an event experienced by Q it's undeniable that something is certainly lost in terms of passion and emotion. Is it necessarily a bad thing? I am not so sure, as each of these people can contribute collectively, even if indirectly, to the topic at hand.
For a more critical point, I would also remark that many of these texts which lament the idea that 'people have forgotten to do X, so we are doomed if X breaks' hasn't yet played out in society. I am certain that people in 1909 and before that were lamenting that fewer and fewer people knew how to do <insert specific technical skill here>, and, yet, this hasn't caused any catastrophic event in our world. Year by year, I imagine that those in the sciences and technology move farther away from the fully concrete and to the abstract — how many people with degrees in Computer Science could really physically create the components of a PC and write in Assembly? Not many, and yet we aren't seeing a catastrophe rise out of this.
Overall, fantastic piece of literature, thank you genuinely for sharing it!
Ooh I'm very curious about the impact of this story on other writers. I bet someone has done this thesis! Thanks for your thanks, you've left me thinking even more!
I went and looked up Forster, he was a conscientious objector in WWI, and his last novel wasn't published before his death because it was about a same sex relationship and he didn't want to out himself. He was a humanist and testified in the defense of Lady Chatterley's Lover during the obscenity trial.
For his time he seems like a cool guy! And Orwell knew of him and hired him (in Orwell's role at the BBC.) and I found a few theses, like this one (PDF warning), but haven't read them.
I feel there's something ironic about the idea of reading a thesis like that after my previous admiration for the quote:
Haha!
I did give it a quick peruse and this short story in question doesn't appear there often, but I will try and read it in some more depth later, looks interesting - thanks!
I mean I like learning from other people too! You still get to form your own opinions after learning :D