Another article: Distracted Boyfriend meme is sexist, rules Swedish ad watchdog (The Guardian) via reddit Well, shit... The alt-right, anti-sjw crew is going to have a field day with this. I fear...
Well, shit... The alt-right, anti-sjw crew is going to have a field day with this. I fear its going to feed directly into their insecurities and they'll feel like their paranoid delusions were right all along.
That reddit thread already has people making shit up and arguing using the totally disingenuous "what if the roles were reversed" shtick, despite the ruling explicitly saying that it's sexist...
That reddit thread already has people making shit up and arguing using the totally disingenuous "what if the roles were reversed" shtick, despite the ruling explicitly saying that it's sexist against men, too.
I'm sure we'll see people talking about the ad being taken down, or the company being fined.
Right, the fact that they aren't getting fined (or being forced to take the ad down) is basic information that should be present in any article about this, but I'm betting we'll see people...
Right, the fact that they aren't getting fined (or being forced to take the ad down) is basic information that should be present in any article about this, but I'm betting we'll see people spinning it that way if this stays in the news cycle for long. "Sweden sued a company for using a meme, called them sexist"
You could call it a "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organization", or just as easily a "toothless group of authoritarian SJWs who don't understand meme culture". Reactionaries aren't really consistent when it comes to small government or regulation, but they're pretty consistently against anyone promoting sensitivity.
To be fair, here: "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organizations" are not always toothless. That description would apply, after all, to the MPAA. If anything, such organizations can, in...
You could call it a "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organization", or just as easily a "toothless group of authoritarian SJWs who don't understand meme culture".
To be fair, here: "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organizations" are not always toothless. That description would apply, after all, to the MPAA. If anything, such organizations can, in practice, have much of the power of government organizations while lacking the constraints and oversight.
I wasn't endorsing either as an adequate description, since I really don't know much about the organization outside of what's available in the article.
I wasn't endorsing either as an adequate description, since I really don't know much about the organization outside of what's available in the article.
It wouldn't really help much to have the information in the article, since most commenter don't read further than the headline. All important information needs to be in the headline itself. And...
It wouldn't really help much to have the information in the article, since most commenter don't read further than the headline. All important information needs to be in the headline itself. And then lets hope the reactionary subreddits have strict rules against editorialising headlines.
The meme builds off of gender stereotypes. If you reversed the genders, it would still work, but it wouldn't be using the same stereotypes. We don't have stereotypes of girlfriends checking out...
The meme builds off of gender stereotypes. If you reversed the genders, it would still work, but it wouldn't be using the same stereotypes. We don't have stereotypes of girlfriends checking out hotter men on the street while out with their boyfriends.
Right. My point was that the ruling was not unfairly biased towards or against one gender, which is the "hypocrisy" the role reversal cliche attempts to address. But this ruling wasn't biased one...
Right. My point was that the ruling was not unfairly biased towards or against one gender, which is the "hypocrisy" the role reversal cliche attempts to address. But this ruling wasn't biased one way or another, so reversing roles reveals nothing.
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but it seemed like the ad agency ruled that this particular instance of the meme was harmful, rather than the meme format. Let me explain how I...
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but it seemed like the ad agency ruled that this particular instance of the meme was harmful, rather than the meme format. Let me explain how I feel that this use of the format is different and antithetical to the format itself.
The way I've seen the format used, and the way I would use it myself, is intended to make fun of stereotypes rather than encourage them. Specifically, it's meant to make fun of the shallow boyfriend for being distracted by someone or something just passing through his life over the steady, reliable partner that his girlfriend presumably is. The woman he's gawking at is intended to represent an unreasonable thing to focus on; the girlfriend represents the more reasonable, reliable, better choice that he should be focusing on and paying attention to; the boyfriend embodies the stereotype or group being poked fun at; and the gawking is ridiculed and discouraged. The whole point of the meme is to make fun of people being distracted by fads.
This particular use of the meme format, on the other hand, encourages the stereotype. It presents Bahnof as the more reasonable and desirable choice and makes fun of the developer's current workplace for being less desirable. This is the exact opposite of what the format is intended to do, and it reinforces harmful stereotypes, as the ad agency noted themselves.
Both the format and this specific play off the same gender stereotypes, and so I suppose you could consider both to be sexist, but they use them in opposing ways. From my point of view, recognizing and ridiculing bad stereotypical behavior in the way this meme format encourages users to do helps to break them down and discourage the bad behavior, which is ultimately a positive thing for society.
I'm open to criticism on that point, though, because I recognize that there are ways of ridiculing stereotypes that actually reinforce them. It may be that this format really does reinforce the stereotype rather than discourage it. Maybe, while it discourages people from engaging in shallow behavior, it reinforces people's prejudice against men and other groups of people. How do y'all feel?
I really agree with this. There is a time and place and purpose for memes like this one.
From my point of view, recognizing and ridiculing bad stereotypical behavior in the way this meme format encourages users to do helps to break them down and discourage the bad behavior, which is ultimately a positive thing for society.
I really agree with this. There is a time and place and purpose for memes like this one.
I actually thought this was kinda funny when I read it. I mean, it's just a lame meme. Sure it builds off gender stereotypes, but is pretty harmless right? Especially when the regulator points out...
I actually thought this was kinda funny when I read it. I mean, it's just a lame meme. Sure it builds off gender stereotypes, but is pretty harmless right? Especially when the regulator points out the following:
But the regulator said the image was discriminatory to both men and women.
Still I can see how this could add to certain work cultures if there's already underlying issues. Guess this made me think about the semi-recent Riot Games issues.
I would argue that gender stereotypes are harmful in general, even if they are positive. Take the stereotype that men are strong - that means that a man who is weak is "less of a man". The fact...
I would argue that gender stereotypes are harmful in general, even if they are positive. Take the stereotype that men are strong - that means that a man who is weak is "less of a man".
The fact that the image is a meme doesn't make it any less harmful.
I guess the image could be construed to say that guys in general gawk unabashidly at attractive women and that women get jealous easily? It reinforces the stereotype that men are cheaters and that...
I guess the image could be construed to say that guys in general gawk unabashidly at attractive women and that women get jealous easily?
It reinforces the stereotype that men are cheaters and that women are jealous/dramatic. I guess.
I don't really think the image is sexist but that was probably their argument.
I don't mind. One of them is actually mentioned in the article, which says that men view women as being interchangable. But it also implies that men are promiscuous and have their judgement...
I don't mind. One of them is actually mentioned in the article, which says that men view women as being interchangable. But it also implies that men are promiscuous and have their judgement clouded by libido (since the 'girlfriend' is right there with him). The 'girlfriend' character reinforces the stereotype of a woman as scornful, emotional, and over-reactive.
To be fair, this is a stock photo; it's supposed to have an obvious story and uses stereotypes to achieve that. I don't think the photo or even the meme (in a very general sense) is excessively problematic. I can't say the same for the advertisement, mainly because it isn't displaying for me anymore for some reason. That being said, to refer to a stereotype in art is to reinforce it in society. So it's not exactly blameless, either.
I definitely agree that can be harm, and meme's like this one can feed quite directly into toxic masculinity issues. The use of this one specifically is problematic to me because it is an advert...
I definitely agree that can be harm, and meme's like this one can feed quite directly into toxic masculinity issues.
The use of this one specifically is problematic to me because it is an advert for working for a company. This is a field where discrimination has historically been an issue, so definitely inappropriate.
However, being able to laugh and joke about issues, including stereotypes is something I value too. I know I can make some pretty inappropriate jokes with awareness on time and place. So meme itself, I think is fine. The context in which it was used in this case, not fine.
Another article: Distracted Boyfriend meme is sexist, rules Swedish ad watchdog (The Guardian) via reddit
Well, shit... The alt-right, anti-sjw crew is going to have a field day with this. I fear its going to feed directly into their insecurities and they'll feel like their paranoid delusions were right all along.
That reddit thread already has people making shit up and arguing using the totally disingenuous "what if the roles were reversed" shtick, despite the ruling explicitly saying that it's sexist against men, too.
I'm sure we'll see people talking about the ad being taken down, or the company being fined.
Right, the fact that they aren't getting fined (or being forced to take the ad down) is basic information that should be present in any article about this, but I'm betting we'll see people spinning it that way if this stays in the news cycle for long. "Sweden sued a company for using a meme, called them sexist"
You could call it a "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organization", or just as easily a "toothless group of authoritarian SJWs who don't understand meme culture". Reactionaries aren't really consistent when it comes to small government or regulation, but they're pretty consistently against anyone promoting sensitivity.
To be fair, here: "private non-tax-funded self-regulatory organizations" are not always toothless. That description would apply, after all, to the MPAA. If anything, such organizations can, in practice, have much of the power of government organizations while lacking the constraints and oversight.
I wasn't endorsing either as an adequate description, since I really don't know much about the organization outside of what's available in the article.
It wouldn't really help much to have the information in the article, since most commenter don't read further than the headline. All important information needs to be in the headline itself. And then lets hope the reactionary subreddits have strict rules against editorialising headlines.
The meme builds off of gender stereotypes. If you reversed the genders, it would still work, but it wouldn't be using the same stereotypes. We don't have stereotypes of girlfriends checking out hotter men on the street while out with their boyfriends.
Right. My point was that the ruling was not unfairly biased towards or against one gender, which is the "hypocrisy" the role reversal cliche attempts to address. But this ruling wasn't biased one way or another, so reversing roles reveals nothing.
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but it seemed like the ad agency ruled that this particular instance of the meme was harmful, rather than the meme format. Let me explain how I feel that this use of the format is different and antithetical to the format itself.
The way I've seen the format used, and the way I would use it myself, is intended to make fun of stereotypes rather than encourage them. Specifically, it's meant to make fun of the shallow boyfriend for being distracted by someone or something just passing through his life over the steady, reliable partner that his girlfriend presumably is. The woman he's gawking at is intended to represent an unreasonable thing to focus on; the girlfriend represents the more reasonable, reliable, better choice that he should be focusing on and paying attention to; the boyfriend embodies the stereotype or group being poked fun at; and the gawking is ridiculed and discouraged. The whole point of the meme is to make fun of people being distracted by fads.
This particular use of the meme format, on the other hand, encourages the stereotype. It presents Bahnof as the more reasonable and desirable choice and makes fun of the developer's current workplace for being less desirable. This is the exact opposite of what the format is intended to do, and it reinforces harmful stereotypes, as the ad agency noted themselves.
Both the format and this specific play off the same gender stereotypes, and so I suppose you could consider both to be sexist, but they use them in opposing ways. From my point of view, recognizing and ridiculing bad stereotypical behavior in the way this meme format encourages users to do helps to break them down and discourage the bad behavior, which is ultimately a positive thing for society.
I'm open to criticism on that point, though, because I recognize that there are ways of ridiculing stereotypes that actually reinforce them. It may be that this format really does reinforce the stereotype rather than discourage it. Maybe, while it discourages people from engaging in shallow behavior, it reinforces people's prejudice against men and other groups of people. How do y'all feel?
I really agree with this. There is a time and place and purpose for memes like this one.
I actually thought this was kinda funny when I read it. I mean, it's just a lame meme. Sure it builds off gender stereotypes, but is pretty harmless right? Especially when the regulator points out the following:
Still I can see how this could add to certain work cultures if there's already underlying issues. Guess this made me think about the semi-recent Riot Games issues.
I would argue that gender stereotypes are harmful in general, even if they are positive. Take the stereotype that men are strong - that means that a man who is weak is "less of a man".
The fact that the image is a meme doesn't make it any less harmful.
If you don't mind me asking, What harmful stereotypes do you think this image is reinforcing?
I guess the image could be construed to say that guys in general gawk unabashidly at attractive women and that women get jealous easily?
It reinforces the stereotype that men are cheaters and that women are jealous/dramatic. I guess.
I don't really think the image is sexist but that was probably their argument.
I don't mind. One of them is actually mentioned in the article, which says that men view women as being interchangable. But it also implies that men are promiscuous and have their judgement clouded by libido (since the 'girlfriend' is right there with him). The 'girlfriend' character reinforces the stereotype of a woman as scornful, emotional, and over-reactive.
To be fair, this is a stock photo; it's supposed to have an obvious story and uses stereotypes to achieve that. I don't think the photo or even the meme (in a very general sense) is excessively problematic. I can't say the same for the advertisement, mainly because it isn't displaying for me anymore for some reason. That being said, to refer to a stereotype in art is to reinforce it in society. So it's not exactly blameless, either.
I definitely agree that can be harm, and meme's like this one can feed quite directly into toxic masculinity issues.
The use of this one specifically is problematic to me because it is an advert for working for a company. This is a field where discrimination has historically been an issue, so definitely inappropriate.
However, being able to laugh and joke about issues, including stereotypes is something I value too. I know I can make some pretty inappropriate jokes with awareness on time and place. So meme itself, I think is fine. The context in which it was used in this case, not fine.