Yeah that's a problem, but what I see as the real long-term adoption challenge is vendor lock-in. GM is building all their stuff on one-platform and I assume the power cubes are sort of designed...
One of the biggest challenges, though, is the dearth of hydrogen charging and refueling infrastructure.
Yeah that's a problem, but what I see as the real long-term adoption challenge is vendor lock-in. GM is building all their stuff on one-platform and I assume the energon power cubes are sort of designed to work in GM's platform. But what makes gasoline handy is it's just a liquid you pour into a tank and anything that needs it can use it. I don't think this market can ever really get established and grow unless they create a universal standard for any company, or even any goofball tinkerer in a garage, to be able to tap into it and not have to think about it.
The light at the end of the tunnel for standards is going to be, oddly enough, the military. It will probably happen way too late, and be a fucking mess, but if any of this tech has legs, the...
The light at the end of the tunnel for standards is going to be, oddly enough, the military.
It will probably happen way too late, and be a fucking mess, but if any of this tech has legs, the government is not going to be ok having 18 different proprietary chargers on all it's bases so it's logistics trucks can move things around, and will want a standard.
How that standard is determined, met, and if the public gets access to it is all stuff up in the air (that really shouldn't be), but there are pressing reasons I don't think this will stay as a disaster.
Further it's not really "gas just being a liquid" that makes it easy. Electric cars just run on electricity, but we've still got all sorts of charger differences (some of that due to actual issues with amp's and what not, a lot due to vendor lock in). It's just more companies realizing that lock in and vertical monopolies are the thing. If the car was invented today you'd have Apple gas stations that only work with Apple cars even though it's mostly the same gas, but theirs takes or has some additive or some octane that others done, and has some high or low pressure environment and on and on.
For the car yeah, but the use of fuel predates that. People were already using it for everything from running little tractors or generators to keeping lamps lit. So the car was invented in a...
If the car was invented today you'd have Apple gas stations that only work with Apple cars even though it's mostly the same gas, but theirs takes or has some additive or some octane that others done, and has some high or low pressure environment and on and on.
For the car yeah, but the use of fuel predates that. People were already using it for everything from running little tractors or generators to keeping lamps lit. So the car was invented in a context where everyone from users to engineers understood that you make a mechanical thing go by feeding it fuel that you have poured into a container.
We also understand a similar thing with how batteries work, and it’s similar enough that we even use “fuel in the tank” as our preferred metaphor for how charged something is (even though it’s a fairly imperfect analogy). You’d think it’d be similar with fuel cells, but something about swapping the tank itself rather than fueling it up seems to make people think they can get cheeky. Ironically that’s a much more direct metaphor to how removable batteries work, but maybe there’s been enough of a generational shift to everything being USB powered that people don’t remember.
I think it'd be more like if Apple required you to hookup Apple power lines to your house to charge your iPhone or run your MAC. That's just not going to happen as it requires costly...
Apple cars even though it's mostly the same gas, but theirs takes or has some additive or some octane that others done, and has some high or low pressure environment and on and on.
I think it'd be more like if Apple required you to hookup Apple power lines to your house to charge your iPhone or run your MAC. That's just not going to happen as it requires costly infrastructure, not a simple adapter.
Any company that wants to succeed at selling products to everyone will have to keep in mind there WILL be a standard and proprietary doesn't become standard. We've seen this with the Apple Lightning connector which is being replaced with a standard, USB-C.
I mean...yeah. Until we see tech hit the streets it's all just speculation in my eyes. I think people get a little conspiracy minded sometimes. Yes, large entities like oil companies have a shit...
I mean...yeah. Until we see tech hit the streets it's all just speculation in my eyes.
I think people get a little conspiracy minded sometimes. Yes, large entities like oil companies have a shit ton of terrible incentives here, but that doesn't automatically extend to all vehicle companies as they need to stay relevant. ESPECIALLY in the industry markets where there's a lot more competition driven by function, vs the casual consumer market which can be driven by less....concrete goals.
In short, I think there are some real pushes to get away from gas, but I also think there's not enough incentive right now to really push it hard. Part of the problem is that we've all but killed competition in markets since it takes an INSANE amount of startup to even compete, so there's not a lot of worry so long as everyone else is going at the same pace.
Normal incompetence and bad incentives and corporate politics and bureaucracy are of course just multipliers on top of that, but on the positive side, while i've never liked Tesla, it has been one of the kicks in the ass the car industry needed to get a move on. I think that reaction to the market is real, and we'll hopefully have something in the next 10 years.
Yeah that's a problem, but what I see as the real long-term adoption challenge is vendor lock-in. GM is building all their stuff on one-platform and I assume the
energonpower cubes are sort of designed to work in GM's platform. But what makes gasoline handy is it's just a liquid you pour into a tank and anything that needs it can use it. I don't think this market can ever really get established and grow unless they create a universal standard for any company, or even any goofball tinkerer in a garage, to be able to tap into it and not have to think about it.The light at the end of the tunnel for standards is going to be, oddly enough, the military.
It will probably happen way too late, and be a fucking mess, but if any of this tech has legs, the government is not going to be ok having 18 different proprietary chargers on all it's bases so it's logistics trucks can move things around, and will want a standard.
How that standard is determined, met, and if the public gets access to it is all stuff up in the air (that really shouldn't be), but there are pressing reasons I don't think this will stay as a disaster.
Further it's not really "gas just being a liquid" that makes it easy. Electric cars just run on electricity, but we've still got all sorts of charger differences (some of that due to actual issues with amp's and what not, a lot due to vendor lock in). It's just more companies realizing that lock in and vertical monopolies are the thing. If the car was invented today you'd have Apple gas stations that only work with Apple cars even though it's mostly the same gas, but theirs takes or has some additive or some octane that others done, and has some high or low pressure environment and on and on.
For the car yeah, but the use of fuel predates that. People were already using it for everything from running little tractors or generators to keeping lamps lit. So the car was invented in a context where everyone from users to engineers understood that you make a mechanical thing go by feeding it fuel that you have poured into a container.
We also understand a similar thing with how batteries work, and it’s similar enough that we even use “fuel in the tank” as our preferred metaphor for how charged something is (even though it’s a fairly imperfect analogy). You’d think it’d be similar with fuel cells, but something about swapping the tank itself rather than fueling it up seems to make people think they can get cheeky. Ironically that’s a much more direct metaphor to how removable batteries work, but maybe there’s been enough of a generational shift to everything being USB powered that people don’t remember.
I think it'd be more like if Apple required you to hookup Apple power lines to your house to charge your iPhone or run your MAC. That's just not going to happen as it requires costly infrastructure, not a simple adapter.
Any company that wants to succeed at selling products to everyone will have to keep in mind there WILL be a standard and proprietary doesn't become standard. We've seen this with the Apple Lightning connector which is being replaced with a standard, USB-C.
I mean...yeah. Until we see tech hit the streets it's all just speculation in my eyes.
I think people get a little conspiracy minded sometimes. Yes, large entities like oil companies have a shit ton of terrible incentives here, but that doesn't automatically extend to all vehicle companies as they need to stay relevant. ESPECIALLY in the industry markets where there's a lot more competition driven by function, vs the casual consumer market which can be driven by less....concrete goals.
In short, I think there are some real pushes to get away from gas, but I also think there's not enough incentive right now to really push it hard. Part of the problem is that we've all but killed competition in markets since it takes an INSANE amount of startup to even compete, so there's not a lot of worry so long as everyone else is going at the same pace.
Normal incompetence and bad incentives and corporate politics and bureaucracy are of course just multipliers on top of that, but on the positive side, while i've never liked Tesla, it has been one of the kicks in the ass the car industry needed to get a move on. I think that reaction to the market is real, and we'll hopefully have something in the next 10 years.
Isn't seawater particularly difficult to use cause of the salt and other contaminants?