Whoa my mind is kinda blown by this. I first looked at the source, expecting NY Post or BusinessInsider. Nope - Nature - top shelf! Cynical me says by trying to fix this, we will make it worse......
Whoa my mind is kinda blown by this. I first looked at the source, expecting NY Post or BusinessInsider. Nope - Nature - top shelf! Cynical me says by trying to fix this, we will make it worse...
Is it something we should fix? The earth's axis does already change by quite a bit due to other factors. The article doesn't seem to mention any particular negatives, and I'd imagine that'd be...
Is it something we should fix? The earth's axis does already change by quite a bit due to other factors. The article doesn't seem to mention any particular negatives, and I'd imagine that'd be something the authors would want to mention if there were clear links.
In the end, that pumping fueled millions of human lives. Sure, there were also some golf courses watered, but it's dwarfed by the amount of water pumped in order for humans to survive.
Well given the global water shortages, ground water pumping is going to increase. Also, do we know the point where the last straw breaks the back? Some systems degrade linearly, others do not. So...
Well given the global water shortages, ground water pumping is going to increase. Also, do we know the point where the last straw breaks the back? Some systems degrade linearly, others do not.
So many times we've said 'oh the change is so small but the world is so so big...'
and I'd imagine that'd be something the authors would want to mention if there were clear links.
Well scientists tend to be very conservative with speculation. And are the links clear? Do we just do what we want before we fully understand the links and impacts? This is what we have done and woe is us...
What are the cascade effects of ground water depletion? Beyond soil subsidence? Siesmic impacts? Will it affect atmospheric patterns. They have more impact because while less dense than water and soil/rock, they are further away from the earth's core hence greater lever arm. Also higher velocity vs water flow. Will these in turn, increase tilt? Questions questions questions...where are the answers?
Humanity is pulling on so many threads of the ecosystem fabric and already destroyed many. This is another - death by a thousand cuts...
In the end, the burden of proof is on the party making the claim. Doubly so for something as essential as the water infrastracture. Restricting water in settlements can cause anywhere between...
In the end, the burden of proof is on the party making the claim. Doubly so for something as essential as the water infrastracture. Restricting water in settlements can cause anywhere between degradations in living quality to excess deaths from preventable heat and thirst related fatalities. There are things we could do to do less pumping, but they all come with severe tradeoffs - investments into water salinity treatment plants in areas where that is appropriate, but it is significantly less efficient, or externality taxes on water, which would again cause significant pain.
If they think there's some catastrophe that comes from this, then they best say it, or we should absolutely not do anything about it.
I thought this sounded quite alarming but this section seems to suggest that it’s only a small additional change, in the scheme of things: “The largest axis change is seasonal and is triggered by...
I thought this sounded quite alarming but this section seems to suggest that it’s only a small additional change, in the scheme of things:
“The largest axis change is seasonal and is triggered by the motion of atmospheric masses as the weather and seasons change. This effect causes the Earth’s geographic poles to wobble by up to several metres every year.”
Someone correct me if I’m wrong please but an additional 4cm on top of “several metres” isn’t much
It's less about the downstream effects, more about the upstream ones. It's a small wobble, the wobble won't cause any problem at all. But I don't think many would expect that humanity is pumping...
It's less about the downstream effects, more about the upstream ones. It's a small wobble, the wobble won't cause any problem at all. But I don't think many would expect that humanity is pumping so much water that it's causing our entire planet and its unimaginable mass to shift and wobble measurably and noticeably even when not specifically looking for it. This isn't a problem, but it reframes and puts to scale other problems we already knew of.
Some systems degrade linearly, others do not. Do we understand our Earth enough to know how much is too much? Hey, it's only 0.5 % more... Could that 0.5% be the final straw? My longer reply is...
Some systems degrade linearly, others do not. Do we understand our Earth enough to know how much is too much? Hey, it's only 0.5 % more... Could that 0.5% be the final straw? My longer reply is linked below:
That was similar to my reaction. Terrifying and amazing. It's one thing to see unchecked resource consumption change the surface of the planet, but causing it to change the tilt is some sci-fi...
The research “distills the magnitude of groundwater extraction across the globe to a significant, relatable metric,” says Allegra LeGrande, a climate scientist at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City. Seeing yet another global impact of people on the world, she says, gives her a sense of “grief and awe.”
That was similar to my reaction. Terrifying and amazing. It's one thing to see unchecked resource consumption change the surface of the planet, but causing it to change the tilt is some sci-fi level impact to me. The article didn't touch upon what effects this could have but my guess would be that it would affect the climate.
Human depletion of underground reservoirs has shifted the global distribution of water so much that the North Pole has drifted by more than 4 centimetres per year. This is fine. /s
Human depletion of underground reservoirs has shifted the global distribution of water so much that the North Pole has drifted by more than 4 centimetres per year.
Whoa my mind is kinda blown by this. I first looked at the source, expecting NY Post or BusinessInsider. Nope - Nature - top shelf! Cynical me says by trying to fix this, we will make it worse...
<off balance washing machine spin cycle noises...intensifies>Is it something we should fix? The earth's axis does already change by quite a bit due to other factors. The article doesn't seem to mention any particular negatives, and I'd imagine that'd be something the authors would want to mention if there were clear links.
In the end, that pumping fueled millions of human lives. Sure, there were also some golf courses watered, but it's dwarfed by the amount of water pumped in order for humans to survive.
Well given the global water shortages, ground water pumping is going to increase. Also, do we know the point where the last straw breaks the back? Some systems degrade linearly, others do not.
So many times we've said 'oh the change is so small but the world is so so big...'
Well scientists tend to be very conservative with speculation. And are the links clear? Do we just do what we want before we fully understand the links and impacts? This is what we have done and woe is us...
What are the cascade effects of ground water depletion? Beyond soil subsidence? Siesmic impacts? Will it affect atmospheric patterns. They have more impact because while less dense than water and soil/rock, they are further away from the earth's core hence greater lever arm. Also higher velocity vs water flow. Will these in turn, increase tilt? Questions questions questions...where are the answers?
Humanity is pulling on so many threads of the ecosystem fabric and already destroyed many. This is another - death by a thousand cuts...
In the end, the burden of proof is on the party making the claim. Doubly so for something as essential as the water infrastracture. Restricting water in settlements can cause anywhere between degradations in living quality to excess deaths from preventable heat and thirst related fatalities. There are things we could do to do less pumping, but they all come with severe tradeoffs - investments into water salinity treatment plants in areas where that is appropriate, but it is significantly less efficient, or externality taxes on water, which would again cause significant pain.
If they think there's some catastrophe that comes from this, then they best say it, or we should absolutely not do anything about it.
I thought this sounded quite alarming but this section seems to suggest that it’s only a small additional change, in the scheme of things:
“The largest axis change is seasonal and is triggered by the motion of atmospheric masses as the weather and seasons change. This effect causes the Earth’s geographic poles to wobble by up to several metres every year.”
Someone correct me if I’m wrong please but an additional 4cm on top of “several metres” isn’t much
It's less about the downstream effects, more about the upstream ones. It's a small wobble, the wobble won't cause any problem at all. But I don't think many would expect that humanity is pumping so much water that it's causing our entire planet and its unimaginable mass to shift and wobble measurably and noticeably even when not specifically looking for it. This isn't a problem, but it reframes and puts to scale other problems we already knew of.
Some systems degrade linearly, others do not. Do we understand our Earth enough to know how much is too much? Hey, it's only 0.5 % more... Could that 0.5% be the final straw? My longer reply is linked below:
https://tildes.net/~enviro/16n6/rampant_groundwater_pumping_has_changed_the_tilt_of_earths_axis#comment-8n28
That was similar to my reaction. Terrifying and amazing. It's one thing to see unchecked resource consumption change the surface of the planet, but causing it to change the tilt is some sci-fi level impact to me. The article didn't touch upon what effects this could have but my guess would be that it would affect the climate.
I read this article the other day and I was speechless. I was trying to compute the science behind this. It's mind boggling.
Human depletion of underground reservoirs has shifted the global distribution of water so much that the North Pole has drifted by more than 4 centimetres per year.
This is fine. /s