11 votes

Senator Warren's Climate Change Plan: 100% Clean Energy for America

17 comments

  1. NaraVara
    Link
    As important to me as Elizabeth Warren's proposals and policies is the narrative around how her campaign has developed. I love the idea that she went from a low-tier candidate that nobody was...

    As important to me as Elizabeth Warren's proposals and policies is the narrative around how her campaign has developed. I love the idea that she went from a low-tier candidate that nobody was talking about in light of Harris, Gillibrand, Booker, and Beto to slowly and steadily building up momentum solely on the force of releasing one thorough and actionable policy proposal after another.

    She's not just campaigning to be President, but she's outlining a whole "New Deal" level of comprehensive, systemic reform of the government. It's not enough to talk about what we need to say "no" to (e.g. Trump, billionaires, etc.) but she's focusing her campaign on what we need to say "yes" to. I'm glad people seem to be hear for it.

    12 votes
  2. [16]
    mike10010100
    Link
    Good lord it frustrates me when people focus on the "Former Republican" bit and claim she's somehow centrist compared to Bernie. No, there's no indication that she's right of Bernie in any of her...

    Good lord it frustrates me when people focus on the "Former Republican" bit and claim she's somehow centrist compared to Bernie.

    No, there's no indication that she's right of Bernie in any of her policies. Stop causing divisions.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      determinism
      Link Parent
      To a very moderate degree, I share in your frustration with this. They are two different candidates. Unless they were identical people, projected onto some kind of one-dimensional Left-Right...

      Good lord it frustrates me when people focus on the "Former Republican" bit

      To a very moderate degree, I share in your frustration with this.

      No, there's no indication that she's right of Bernie in any of her policies. Stop causing divisions.

      They are two different candidates. Unless they were identical people, projected onto some kind of one-dimensional Left-Right spectrum, one of them is very likely to be "to the right" of the other. Frankly, I find it pretty bizarre to claim that Warren would be to the left of Sanders.

      5 votes
      1. mike10010100
        Link Parent
        I'm not claiming she's to the left of Sanders. I'm stating that they're so similar that calling her "centrist", as some Bernie supporters do, is disingenuous.

        I'm not claiming she's to the left of Sanders. I'm stating that they're so similar that calling her "centrist", as some Bernie supporters do, is disingenuous.

    2. [9]
      Leonidas
      Link Parent
      I definitely agree that people make too big a deal of her former political affiliations (how are people supposed to be able to grow and change with that attitude?), but her policies are measurably...

      I definitely agree that people make too big a deal of her former political affiliations (how are people supposed to be able to grow and change with that attitude?), but her policies are measurably less leftist than Sanders' (some college debt relief as opposed to all, less comprehensive climate plan, talking about "access to healthcare" instead of Medicare for All, etc.) Does that mean she's actually on the right? Far from it.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        It's a bit depressing that the Bernie Brigade online has turned "leftism" into a matter of saying the right shibboleths rather than anything that's actually tied to actions or policies. It's most...

        It's a bit depressing that the Bernie Brigade online has turned "leftism" into a matter of saying the right shibboleths rather than anything that's actually tied to actions or policies. It's most egregious with the "But they won't say Medicare for All!" but they say it for everything. Like what a person actually intends to do doesn't seem to matter, they just want to hear the right buzzword or phrase or promise.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Leonidas
          Link Parent
          Not really. "Medicare for All" refers to a specific plan (not the corporate-approved nonsense Kamala tried putting out), and the fact that Warren is backing off from it is indicative of what she'd...

          Not really. "Medicare for All" refers to a specific plan (not the corporate-approved nonsense Kamala tried putting out), and the fact that Warren is backing off from it is indicative of what she'd try to do (or wouldn't do) in office. Saying you specifically support M4A is tied to actions and policies.

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            NaraVara
            Link Parent
            Can you explain in concrete terms what is it about this plan that you think will work better than alternative methods and what you specifically don't think will work in Warren's proposals? Because...

            Can you explain in concrete terms what is it about this plan that you think will work better than alternative methods and what you specifically don't think will work in Warren's proposals? Because relying so heavily on bromides like "corporate-approve nonsense" doesn't really get beyond my point regarding shibboleths in lieu of actions.

            1 vote
            1. Leonidas
              Link Parent
              The reason I used the phrase "corporate-approved" with regards to Kamala's healthcare policy is that it was endorsed by Kathleen Sebelius, a former HHS secretary who is currently a board member of...

              The reason I used the phrase "corporate-approved" with regards to Kamala's healthcare policy is that it was endorsed by Kathleen Sebelius, a former HHS secretary who is currently a board member of Devoted Health, which sells plans for the private insurer Medicare Advantage. Harris has also claimed to support M4A in the past and later backed down, so I don't think it's inaccurate to criticize her current position for its roots in private insurers. It may be a buzzword, but it's not wrong in this case.

              1 vote
      2. [2]
        Autoxidation
        Link Parent
        Can you explain why you think Warren's climate plan is less comprehensive than Bernie's? From what I've seen she's working from Inslee's plan, which is the most detailed and comprehensive of any...

        Can you explain why you think Warren's climate plan is less comprehensive than Bernie's? From what I've seen she's working from Inslee's plan, which is the most detailed and comprehensive of any put forth so far.

        1 vote
        1. Leonidas
          Link Parent
          One place to start is the amount they're proposing to spend--Bernie's $16.3T vs. Warren's $3T. But simply looking at the price tags isn't a good way to dig into the details, of course. This...

          One place to start is the amount they're proposing to spend--Bernie's $16.3T vs. Warren's $3T. But simply looking at the price tags isn't a good way to dig into the details, of course. This masterpost lists and compares their various policy points.
          They do share the same general goals. Both plans are good, there's no denying that.

          1 vote
      3. [2]
        mike10010100
        Link Parent
        Yes, because, like it or not, Medicare for All and abolishing private health insurance polls terribly across the US. Is that bullshit? Yup. But I don't blame a politician for trying to get...

        talking about "access to healthcare" instead of Medicare for All, etc.)

        Yes, because, like it or not, Medicare for All and abolishing private health insurance polls terribly across the US.

        Is that bullshit? Yup. But I don't blame a politician for trying to get elected. If Bernie continues to alienate the people who could potentially vote for him by not waging an all-out PR war on why abolishing private healthcare entirely is preferable to giving everyone the option of accessing a public run health system, then he's going to lose.

        1. Leonidas
          Link Parent
          I never made any comment that it invalidates her as a candidate (though it is disappointing), just that it puts her further right than Bernie. But he's been making plenty of inroads with people...

          I never made any comment that it invalidates her as a candidate (though it is disappointing), just that it puts her further right than Bernie. But he's been making plenty of inroads with people who don't typically get involved with politics--just look at his support with figures like Cardi B, for example. Although polls are far from perfect, he does win in a head-to-head matchup against Trump.

          1 vote
    3. [4]
      Spel
      Link Parent
      There’s no need to look further than foreign policy to see one area where Warren is far to the right of Sanders.

      There’s no need to look further than foreign policy to see one area where Warren is far to the right of Sanders.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        mike10010100
        Link Parent
        In what way, precisely? Why talk in such general terms when we're discussing specifics?

        In what way, precisely? Why talk in such general terms when we're discussing specifics?

        1. [2]
          Spel
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          In every way. Look at how she's supporting and talks about Israel North Korea It's goes on and on. She's supported sanctions against Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and North Korea. It's not hard to see...

          In every way. Look at how she's supporting and talks about Israel

          "America has a very special relationship with Israel. Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world where there aren’t any liberal democracies and democracies that are controlled by a rule of law."

          “We very much need an ally in that part of the world,” she continued. “I think about this from our perspective.”

          “Israel has a right to defend itself,” she added. “We have an interest in Israel defending itself and surviving.”

          North Korea

          “Yesterday’s photo op doesn’t change the fact that a nuclear-armed North Korea is a threat to the security of the United States, our allies, and the world. Generations of North Korean leaders have made and broken promises before — this Administration’s success will be judged on whether it can eliminate Kim’s nuclear weapons and verify they are gone.”

          It's goes on and on. She's supported sanctions against Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and North Korea. It's not hard to see that she's closely aligned to mainstream American imperalism.

          2 votes
          1. mike10010100
            Link Parent
            And yet: https://theintercept.com/2018/04/12/israel-palestine-conflict-elizabeth-warren/ https://theintercept.com/2019/08/15/israel-omar-tlaib-trump-netanyahu/...

            And yet:

            https://theintercept.com/2018/04/12/israel-palestine-conflict-elizabeth-warren/

            https://theintercept.com/2019/08/15/israel-omar-tlaib-trump-netanyahu/

            https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-does-elizabeth-warren-have-a-plan-for-israel-1.7409088

            https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/07/elizabeth-warren-palestine-israel-occupation-ifnotnow-bds-aipac

            It seems like you're just cherry picking and ignoring the broader context.

            She's supported sanctions against Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and North Korea

            Good? They're all kinda shitty governments? Should we start doing business with Kim Jong Un? What exactly are you arguing here?

            1 vote