26
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Denmark set to withdraw the 1,000 kroner note, its largest denomination, from circulation by May 2025 – just 10% of payments in stores are made in cash
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- Title
- Denmark withdraws 1,000-crown note from circulation
- Published
- Nov 30 2023
- Word count
- 233 words
Dane here. I find this geniuely scary. I always pay in cash, or I try to—it has become increasingly hard, since ATM machines are now rather hard to come by, and they typically won't give more than 2000,-. It is also illegal to pay more than 19.999,- in cash.
I don't think people realize just how powerful cash is; you can pay someone, and nobody else can spy on you doing it, much less hinder it. With the surveliance society we're currently have, I want to do my bit to keep this around.
There's this case case from 2013 about a woman who paid a defence lawyer 200.000,-, but then SKAT simply decide to take that money. This is fringe case. Mostly, we can trust the powers to play fair, at least where money are concerned. But with cash, we don't have to trust anyone, because nobody have any power over the cash which we have in our possession.
Curiously, that old Mary Poppins bank run scene seens pretty radical today.
I don't quite understand your comment. Unless I am misunderstanding something, they're not taking all cash notes out of circulation, they're just taking the 1,000 kroner note out of circulation. So why are you acting like this is the end of all cash in Denmark?
The way I read this article, I imagine it's similar to as if the Canadian government decided to take our $100 note out of circulation. And while I understand the power and freedom of cash (esp as a former drug addict), and almost always carry some myself, I genuinely can't even remember the last time I paid with a $100 note. Especially since most ATMs here generally won't even dispense $100 notes, so you usually have to go into the bank itself to get them if you really want them. And the few times I've received $100 notes in my life (usually as gifts from relatives) they've been a PITA to use, since they're so difficult to make change for. Which is why many small mom & pop stores will often simply refuse to accept them, even though they're technically not allowed to refuse them.
And we have limits on cash withdrawal amounts from ATMs here in Canada too, but that's not because of some nefarious government surveillance conspiracy, it's in order to prevent criminals from being able to extract someone's entire bank account while holding them at knife/gunpoint. I admit that the 19,999 kroner cash payment limit is pretty strange though. AFAIK there is no such maximum cash payment limit here in Canada. Although there is one somewhat funny legal restriction here on coin usage, in order to allow vendors to refuse people trying to pay for things using a buttload of coins instead of notes:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-52/page-1.html
And that cash seizure article you linked to is also really vague on details, BTW. It doesn't actually explain the situation at all, or even name the people involved, other than the supposed experts who only gave vague quotes about the situation. So I can't even look up more details on the particular case to try to understand it.
Who was the Danish expat woman living in Monaco, who is her lawyer, why was the government attempting to seize the money paid to the lawyer? Does she owe unpaid taxes, and "paid" a shady lawyer to essentially hold on to her undeclared earnings in Monaco as a way of getting around paying her taxes? Because TBH, that's what I would assume is going on, in which case my sympathy for her situation would be rather diminished. So do you know of any other more detailed articles where I can read about it?
Because there are plans to remove cash in Denmark, the so-called "kontantløse samfund" ("cashless society")
Bank director wants to abolish cash to fight crime: https://borsen.dk/nyheder/virksomheder/bankchef-vil-afskaffe-kontanter-for-at-bekaempe-kriminalitet-6hf5q
Nationalbanken (Denmarks Nationalbank) have send out a questionary asking question like "Would it be a problem, for you, if denmark became cash free, for instance in 10 years?" (A curious detail is that they say "cash free" rather than the the established term "cashless", to give it a more positive spin) https://ekstrabladet.dk/nationen/kontantfrit-om-ti-aar-nationalbanken-chokerer/9761784
But as a general rule, it is a sort of under-the-table debate. Mostly, the powers that want a cashless society doesn't speak too openly about it. Like, the government saying that they don't "currently" have any plans to abolish cash. The debate is most visible in those arguing against it.
So I think that, rather than raising the debate, there is a hope that associating cash with criminal behavior and making using cash increasingly cumbersome will pave the way for the cashless society.
As an example of associating cash with criminal behavior, the argument for removing the 1.000 is to fight money laundering:
https://politi.dk/national-enhed-for-saerlig-kriminalitet/nyhedsliste/udfasning-af-1000-kroneseddel-goer-det-svaerere-at-hvidvaske/2023/11/30
Likewise, the law making it illegal to pay more than 19.999,- is named "hvidvaskloven" ("The Money Laundering Law")
And it's not that I think money laundering is a good thing, but money laundering is a natural result of the inherient lack of surveliance in cash.
As an example of making using cash increasingly cumbersome, we have Nationalbanken argue that stores shouldn't have to accept cash:
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/nationalbanken-kan-give-mening-goere-det-frivilligt-butikker-tage-imod-kontanter
Here, Dansk Erhverv makes the same argument:
https://www.danskerhverv.dk/politik-og-analyser/afskaffelse-af-kontantpligten/
The government suggested doing just that, but some political parties didn't like it.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/v-og-df-ikke-klar-til-afskaffe-kontanter-hvad-med-aeldre-uden-dankort
Anyway, another nice thing about cash is that there's no "negative interest rate". With physical money, there is no practical way anyone can make you pay for having it. Since we have negative interest rate in Denmark, I pay 0,75% of my money each year for, well, having them.
Yeah, most likely she's a rich asshole who got around paying taxes. But the way the the rule of law goes about, one has right to a defence. So SKAT trying to win the case by stop her from paying her lawyer is very much begyond shady.
But I don't have any other sources, sorry. It was a miracle that I managed to find it in my bookmarks. I just noticed it back then, and felt that this was something I should save.
Add to that, the slow but persistent aim to remove the Dankort as well and get everyone onto Visa where there are more fees. If we remove cash, we are locked into digital solutions and we can be basically held hostage with fees to be able to use our own money. I know it probably won't happen tomorrow, but the future prospect is worrisome.
Ah, that certainly does sound like they're actually trying to eventually go fully cashless in Denmark, and this is potentially just the first step, so I can totally understand your fears now. Thanks for the detailed response, and providing some additional context. Much appreciated!
There is a push towards this in Norway too, and I cannot begin to describe how much of a bad idea I find it.
Considering Norway has dismantled its FM/AM network (a few local radiostations have kept their senders up is all) in favour of DAB that either works perfectly or not at all, has dismantled their phone lines so everything is VoIP/online, is in the middle of dismantling fiber internet in favour of wireless 5G, you don't even need to take out our electricity to bring us to a non-communicating standstill. You just need to target the internet base stations.
We won't be able to process credit card payments even, since physical credit card handling hasn't been a thing for many years. Everything is online, and payments are mostly debit to begin with.
While I don't think getting rid of cash is the end of the world, it's more the general tendency towards being wholly dependant on a single piece of tech not going down for pretty much all our societal needs that disturbs me.
Currently equal to $147 (US) or 134€.
I can attest to this, I’m in Denmark for half a year at the moment, and in addition to self-checkout (card only) in the supermarket, there are lanes taking only card payment (3-4), and around 1-2 that also accept cash, which are the ones active by default if the store doesn’t see much traffic. But I don’t think I’ve seen anyone pay in cash, like ever.
And this is a – regionally large, but still rather – rural city with 50,000 inhabitants.
Interesting point. But no, as far as I’ve been able to tell, both during peak hour (Saturday afternoon) as well as something like Wednesday morning, it’s all card. Maybe I didn’t pay attention well enough and my brain chose to forget the cash payers, haha.
This seems like a pretty standard and sensible move. Large denomination banknotes tend to end up being used predominantly for crime, so it makes sense to remove them. The ECB also did this a few years ago, when it removed the 500 euro note.
In terms of the privacy thing, I agree that people should have privacy when it comes to certain transactions (e.g. if you go and buy a drag outfit or sth) but when it comes to more serious things I don't think you have a right to privacy, because those transactions aren't about self-expression – they are about exerting control over resources in society, and the state should keep track of this (among other reasons to prevent tax evasion).
Citation needed
There are lots of studies on this – e.g. UK serious organized crime police estimated that fewer that 90% of 500 Euro notes were owned by criminals. Other economists think that roughly 75-80% of $100 bills in the US are held by criminals or for tax evasion.
Interesting, thanks!
I think it’s quite unfortunate that crime by a few will be the reason why the privacy-respecting payments option for all gets removed…