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Is it me, or does spicy + sweet = bitter?
Specifically if I drink a soda with spicy food, my tongue interprets the taste as bitter. Is it just me?
Specifically if I drink a soda with spicy food, my tongue interprets the taste as bitter. Is it just me?
That has happened to me before but I think it's more due to carbonation than sweetness. I've had sweet and spicy food and it didn't taste bitter. Therefore, I think carbonation is the key to the bitter taste you experienced.
That’s a valid point, I believe the carbonation may be the culprit here, not the sweetness! Next time I order wings I’ll have a beer vs a soda (not being facetious, I barely drink)
Almost. It's that acidic + alkaline = bitter.
The most familiar example of this is the unpleasant combination of orange juice (quite acidic) and toothpaste (alkaline, as minty things generally are). Each tastes fine separately, but when combined you get that bitterness that we all know and hate.
Spicy is alkaline, and soda is acidic, so the results are similar. You'd get the same effect even if it were just plain carbonated water without any sweetness.
I think you're mistaken about a few things here.
To begin with, minty things are not "generally alkaline" - mint itself (as an herb or as the flavor extracted therefrom) is not especially acidic or alkaline, and in any case, it is added in a low enough quantity to most products that its effect on pH is negligible. Whether we're talking about foods or personal care products, the pH will be determined by the other ingredients.
Likewise, spicy things are not generally alkaline. Capsaicin itself, the compound which usually results in spicy flavors, is slightly alkaline, but the concentration of capsaicin that most people find enjoyable or tolerable is so low that its effect on pH is negligible. Peppers, the usual source of capsaicin, are usually close to neutral in pH.
Toothpaste is also not always alkaline. I actually used to work as a formulation chemist for oral care products (including toothpaste), and from my experience of looking at a variety of competitor products, toothpaste may range in pH from 6 (very slightly acidic) to 9.5 (moderately alkaline).
In any case, the bitterness evoked by drinking something like orange juice after brushing one's teeth is not due to the pH of these two substances, but rather due to the presence of sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) or other such similar surfactants in the toothpaste. Orange juice actually contains quite a few bitter compounds, including citric acid, and terpenoids like limonin. But it also has a ton of sugar, and a sufficient level of sweetness in a food will actually neurologically suppress other flavors such as bitterness. However, SLS blocks sweetness receptors, and so allows the orange juice's latent bitter flavor to become much more apparent.
As for OP's question, it's a complicated topic. The general wisdom is that sweetness suppresses bitterness as well as the sensation of spiciness. But OP specifically mentions soda enhancing the bitterness - soda, while sweet, is usually also very sour. It is also carbonated, and dissolved CO2 often produces a bitter flavor. Maybe it's the combination with carbonic bitterness that enhances the latent bitter taste present in a lot of spicy foods? Capsaicin is in fact detectably bitter at concentrations present in spicy foods.
It would be interesting to see if OP has the same effect with other sweet foods that do not have significant sour or bitter properties.
Huh. Your expertise here clearly dwarfs my own knowledge, so I'll have to rework my understanding of things.
Thank you for the correction and the additional information!
What a mature and pleasant interaction, I really like that about Tildes
Waaaaait a sec, sparkling flavored water is not bitter for most people!?
Apparently not!
But you can't prove it by me, as I also experience sparkling water as bitter, unpleasantly so.
However I am also a so-called super-taster, and they are more sensitive to bitter flavours in general.
Coffee is intolerable for me, and so is beer.
I suspect that a few of the other posters - possibly including yourself - are also potentially super-tasters.
What's really strange is how quickly this changed for me. I used to think sparkling water (flavored or non-flavored) were incredibly, and unbearably bitter. I had tried it a few times and couldn't get into it.
Months/years later, I tried it again. This time, not as bitter, but the lack of sweetness was jarring so I wasn't sure I liked it. However, it was so much less bitter than I had remembered, that I tried a couple of more that same week.
After that week- I now thoroughly enjoy sparkling water, both flavored and unflavored, and no longer find them bitter or offputting. I don't know if my tastebuds changed. I don't know if only 2-3 drinks in a week was enough to "acquire" a taste... whatever happened feels magical though! Now I love the stuff. I still love sweetened stuff too like soda, but an ice cold Topo Chico, La Croix, Bubly, etc? Super refreshing and enjoyable now
I still drink unsweetened sparkling water, either mixed with soda (reg soda is too sweet) or without.
The bitter taste was always there, but not overwhelmingly so for me.
Interesting, thanks!
I know I said this in another comment, but folks eating spicy wings and beer would have the same sensation?
It looks as if the pH of soda is generally around 2.5-3, and beer ranges from 3-5.5. So soda is substantially more acidic than beer, and the acid/base reaction would be significantly stronger.
Also, I'm not a beer person myself, but my understanding is that bitterness is often a substantial note of its flavor profile all on its own. That might mean that the bitterness from the acid/base reaction doesn't stand out quite so starkly as it does against the background of sweet soda.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I definitely do not experience the same sensation.
I am curious though, as we all interpret things differently, is the "bitter" that you experience unpleasant?
For example, I love some flavors that could be considered "bitter," but I thoroughly enjoy them.
What is your experience like?
Same I enjoy hot sauces a lot and have many hot and sweet ones. Never really feel they taste bitter. I also sometimes mix hot and sweet like peanut butter and hot sauce. It's never bitter.
It’s not an overwhelming bitterness but it is there enough for me to notice.