The combination of non-determinism and strategic play mentioned here is why Bridge is my favorite card game. (Granted it's deterministic after the initial shuffle, but that shuffle does inject...
The combination of non-determinism and strategic play mentioned here is why Bridge is my favorite card game. (Granted it's deterministic after the initial shuffle, but that shuffle does inject some non-determinism that manifests through imperfect information.)
It's got that flavor though, where a strategical stronger player will win out more in the long run, with the odd upsets here and there due to good vs. bad hands. And also where a calculated gamble can get torpedoed if the cards broke the wrong way.
In a similar vein, I've very much enjoyed pinochle online. It's got the bidding element, but simply earning the most points in play can only get you a fixed number of points - the bidding and...
In a similar vein, I've very much enjoyed pinochle online. It's got the bidding element, but simply earning the most points in play can only get you a fixed number of points - the bidding and melding process (both of which are blind to your partner) are able to play for many more points. The strategy therefore has to be a balance - how many tricks and points can you win in play, and what is the value of the trade off that gets you more points in the meld?
I think pinochle is pretty close to the perfect card game...and I'm a total newby.
Backgammon has too much RNG... I'm seriousness though, this is at play in video games as well, with the above "insightful" comments often left on Steam reviews. That said, I appreciate this...
Backgammon has too much RNG...
I'm seriousness though, this is at play in video games as well, with the above "insightful" comments often left on Steam reviews.
That said, I appreciate this article, because I never had the words to describe the style of games as Deterministic vs Probabilistic and it makes perfect sense. I'm definitely in the Probabilistic camp myself and that's probably because I'm similar to the author in that I'm "good" at games, but I wouldn't describe myself as amazing or anything. I can regularly beat friends and family at pretty much any game, but at tournaments, I'm generally in the middle of the pack.
I know this wasn't really the point of the article, but one of the fun things about Probability style games is trying to mitigate that risk and what goes into it. I play a lot of Tabletop Wargames and often, you might find yourself going for an overkill on an opponent, because you're not sure if the dice are going to be on your side or not for that particular roll. But that overkilling can itself leave you open to reprisal. It's all about trying to make the best decision out of many with the information you have available at the time.
My dad taught me to play backgammon years ago and we'll always get in a match or two on family trips. One interesting corollary to the observation about nondeterministic games and playing for...
My dad taught me to play backgammon years ago and we'll always get in a match or two on family trips.
One interesting corollary to the observation about nondeterministic games and playing for money - I've played a decent amount of competitive Magic The Gathering, as well as organized tournaments and leagues. Despite being an inherently random game, WotC has gone through significant efforts to avoid associating the game with gambling of any kind. I was talking to a player who was relatively new to Magic but had a decent amount of experience in esports (this was an online Magic event), and they asked about money matches, which are reasonably common as ad-hoc side events at fighting game tournaments in particular. Not only is there essentially zero culture of money-matching at Magic events, but putting money down on a match in a competitive setting will automatically make you lose the match - or even get disqualified, if you knew it was disallowed and did it anyway.
The combination of non-determinism and strategic play mentioned here is why Bridge is my favorite card game. (Granted it's deterministic after the initial shuffle, but that shuffle does inject some non-determinism that manifests through imperfect information.)
It's got that flavor though, where a strategical stronger player will win out more in the long run, with the odd upsets here and there due to good vs. bad hands. And also where a calculated gamble can get torpedoed if the cards broke the wrong way.
In a similar vein, I've very much enjoyed pinochle online. It's got the bidding element, but simply earning the most points in play can only get you a fixed number of points - the bidding and melding process (both of which are blind to your partner) are able to play for many more points. The strategy therefore has to be a balance - how many tricks and points can you win in play, and what is the value of the trade off that gets you more points in the meld?
I think pinochle is pretty close to the perfect card game...and I'm a total newby.
Backgammon has too much RNG...
I'm seriousness though, this is at play in video games as well, with the above "insightful" comments often left on Steam reviews.
That said, I appreciate this article, because I never had the words to describe the style of games as Deterministic vs Probabilistic and it makes perfect sense. I'm definitely in the Probabilistic camp myself and that's probably because I'm similar to the author in that I'm "good" at games, but I wouldn't describe myself as amazing or anything. I can regularly beat friends and family at pretty much any game, but at tournaments, I'm generally in the middle of the pack.
I know this wasn't really the point of the article, but one of the fun things about Probability style games is trying to mitigate that risk and what goes into it. I play a lot of Tabletop Wargames and often, you might find yourself going for an overkill on an opponent, because you're not sure if the dice are going to be on your side or not for that particular roll. But that overkilling can itself leave you open to reprisal. It's all about trying to make the best decision out of many with the information you have available at the time.
My dad taught me to play backgammon years ago and we'll always get in a match or two on family trips.
One interesting corollary to the observation about nondeterministic games and playing for money - I've played a decent amount of competitive Magic The Gathering, as well as organized tournaments and leagues. Despite being an inherently random game, WotC has gone through significant efforts to avoid associating the game with gambling of any kind. I was talking to a player who was relatively new to Magic but had a decent amount of experience in esports (this was an online Magic event), and they asked about money matches, which are reasonably common as ad-hoc side events at fighting game tournaments in particular. Not only is there essentially zero culture of money-matching at Magic events, but putting money down on a match in a competitive setting will automatically make you lose the match - or even get disqualified, if you knew it was disallowed and did it anyway.