Snippets from the article, written by Cass Marshall: I've always been interested in the disconnect between people who play video games "as they were intended" and those who attempt to "min-max" as...
Snippets from the article, written by Cass Marshall:
Many players have jumped on-board for Palia’s soft, sweet, and comfortable vibe, and they’re largely content with the systems as they stand. Another faction of the fan base craves active endgame content that requires hands-on cooperation and coordination with other players.
Every game as a service will occasionally infuriate or divide its player base, so it’s no surprise to see the same patterns play out in the cozy farming community of Palia. MMOs are often defined by their endgames and group activities. So far, these activities are often organized out of game, by people who are all dedicated to learning the ins and outs of Palia.
So far, I’m optimistic that Singularity Six will be able to keep the game in a healthy spot. But my biggest concern is the inevitable confrontations between these two factions in the playerbase. How do you maintain an endgame that is accessible to both the casual player who puts in an hour here and there and the hardcore MMO fanatic who carefully optimizes their gardening plots using an external website?
I've always been interested in the disconnect between people who play video games "as they were intended" and those who attempt to "min-max" as much as possible. I'm reminded of Animal Crossing: New Leaf back in the day. A friend of mine tricked the system into spawning a very valuable bug constantly, so he was able to acquire an enormous amount of currency early on. Only thing is, that's basically all the game was at the time, so he swiftly got very bored.
Similar to Stardew Valley, I've read that certain people get stressed when they play it, because there's literally not enough time in the day to do everything, so you have to pick and choose. Monday is a fishing day, Tuesday's mining, Wednesday I take the day off, etc. This is easily circumvented with a mod that changes the timescale, but at that point, are you even playing the game as it was intended? Does that even matter if you're enjoying yourself?
I found this article to be another great example of this divide, and the entire concept is just so interesting to me! Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk (I couldn't afford TED).
I don't think it matters what someone does in their single player game as long as they're enjoying themselves. I am concerned though about this modern tendency for, as the article puts it "toxic...
I don't think it matters what someone does in their single player game as long as they're enjoying themselves. I am concerned though about this modern tendency for, as the article puts it "toxic positivity". It just seems like folks are looking for excuses to unload on other people. In this case, why is the community turning on people who didn't know better instead of asking for shared gathering nodes like every modern MMO?
On an offtopic note, your last line made me laugh :P
To better understand, in many cases it's not "min-maxing" so much as "finding more content because you got better". If you play mario level 1 for the very first time it's interesting. The 100th...
I've always been interested in the disconnect between people who play video games "as they were intended" and those who attempt to "min-max" as much as possible.
To better understand, in many cases it's not "min-maxing" so much as "finding more content because you got better".
If you play mario level 1 for the very first time it's interesting. The 100th time you're probably going to start seeing how quickly you can get through the level. You've found a way to add a challenge on top of the one that already exists.
This is basically the crux of all competitive systems (to directly competitive like fighting games/shooters/whateverng or generally competitive like speed running), and it's a problem when designers don't really plan for their players to get better at their own content, because eventually you just run out of things to do.
I've always felt this was a huge issue for the standard MMORPG (hence why I never like them), as there's not much room for skill. It's mostly just "who has put more time into the game", and low and behold, with enough time, you're eventually going to run out of things to do.
So there's some section of the playerbase that will always try to break that cycle or do it faster, because to them, that's getting better at the game. Even if not out of boredom from just getting everything done, when you make time the main barrier, of course people are going to find ways around it.
This is only sort of tangentially related but I feel like it's kind of the idea of instrumental play that they reference and explain in this video alongside a fascinating look at gaming...
I've always been interested in the disconnect between people who play video games "as they were intended" and those who attempt to "min-max" as much as possible.
I've put 50hrs into Palia so far and I'm having a nice time. I'm also a FFXIV endgame raider (and have less of a nice time lol). Palia is not a game intended for this sort of endgame content mill...
I've put 50hrs into Palia so far and I'm having a nice time. I'm also a FFXIV endgame raider (and have less of a nice time lol). Palia is not a game intended for this sort of endgame content mill grinds typical of MMOs and players disappointed in that after having done everything else should just find a new game to play. Even the cake parties were a bit contrived in terms of acting as endgame content -- at that point, gold is pretty much a moot point. It is still open beta, sure, so they might come up with more appropriate endgame content, but that sort of thinking is just counter to the whole design of the game in my opinion.
Nonetheless, the devs are experimenting to see what they can add. Just today they added a new obstacle course activity. No exclusive rewards (or really much of rewards), just another way to vibe. Excited to see what S6 does with the game.
That's my jam, right there, and I think the heart of the conversation in topics such as these: is it worth more to be rewarded at the end of an activity, or is the activity itself the reward? Very...
just another way to vibe
That's my jam, right there, and I think the heart of the conversation in topics such as these: is it worth more to be rewarded at the end of an activity, or is the activity itself the reward? Very much a journey v. destination, "the treasure is the friends we made along the way sort of thing."
I'm an avid player of Palia... just today I finally maxed out all the friendship levels and I'm at level 67 in gardening. And yes, I see the problems the article talks about. I'm hitting "the...
I'm an avid player of Palia... just today I finally maxed out all the friendship levels and I'm at level 67 in gardening. And yes, I see the problems the article talks about. I'm hitting "the wall" of what there is to do, but the game version is 0.170... it's not at release yet.
I desperately hope they don't introduce a combat element. It's a very chill game, and I'd love it to stay that way. The climbing does need work, that much is true. Also, I feel bad for the players that got shafted by the removal of cake parties, but I also am kind of with S6 on this one, in that they found an unintended consequence and squashed it. Which I feel is a game dev top priority.
I'm about 95% positive on the game, so yes, I'm biased, but I honestly hope this didn't come off rah-rah.
I agree! And I don't think you're coming off as rah-rah at all, though I do love that connotation. I use "rabble rabble" myself. From my current understanding, Palia is basically meant to be a...
I desperately hope they don't introduce a combat element. It's a very chill game, and I'd love it to stay that way.
I agree! And I don't think you're coming off as rah-rah at all, though I do love that connotation. I use "rabble rabble" myself.
From my current understanding, Palia is basically meant to be a relaxing, non-combative, "chill" game, ala Animal Crossing, but with more skills to work towards and more community-based gameplay. I feel that to add combat or to acquiesce to the demands of "min-maxers" could negatively impact the core game, if simply for the fact that Palia was never intended to have a combat system beyond hunting. Rather than try and satisfy each and every player, imo it would be more prudent to maintain their current course of direction. You gotta stick to the plan, so to speak.
Snippets from the article, written by Cass Marshall:
I've always been interested in the disconnect between people who play video games "as they were intended" and those who attempt to "min-max" as much as possible. I'm reminded of Animal Crossing: New Leaf back in the day. A friend of mine tricked the system into spawning a very valuable bug constantly, so he was able to acquire an enormous amount of currency early on. Only thing is, that's basically all the game was at the time, so he swiftly got very bored.
Similar to Stardew Valley, I've read that certain people get stressed when they play it, because there's literally not enough time in the day to do everything, so you have to pick and choose. Monday is a fishing day, Tuesday's mining, Wednesday I take the day off, etc. This is easily circumvented with a mod that changes the timescale, but at that point, are you even playing the game as it was intended? Does that even matter if you're enjoying yourself?
I found this article to be another great example of this divide, and the entire concept is just so interesting to me! Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk (I couldn't afford TED).
I don't think it matters what someone does in their single player game as long as they're enjoying themselves. I am concerned though about this modern tendency for, as the article puts it "toxic positivity". It just seems like folks are looking for excuses to unload on other people. In this case, why is the community turning on people who didn't know better instead of asking for shared gathering nodes like every modern MMO?
On an offtopic note, your last line made me laugh :P
To better understand, in many cases it's not "min-maxing" so much as "finding more content because you got better".
If you play mario level 1 for the very first time it's interesting. The 100th time you're probably going to start seeing how quickly you can get through the level. You've found a way to add a challenge on top of the one that already exists.
This is basically the crux of all competitive systems (to directly competitive like fighting games/shooters/whateverng or generally competitive like speed running), and it's a problem when designers don't really plan for their players to get better at their own content, because eventually you just run out of things to do.
I've always felt this was a huge issue for the standard MMORPG (hence why I never like them), as there's not much room for skill. It's mostly just "who has put more time into the game", and low and behold, with enough time, you're eventually going to run out of things to do.
So there's some section of the playerbase that will always try to break that cycle or do it faster, because to them, that's getting better at the game. Even if not out of boredom from just getting everything done, when you make time the main barrier, of course people are going to find ways around it.
This is only sort of tangentially related but I feel like it's kind of the idea of instrumental play that they reference and explain in this video alongside a fascinating look at gaming communities through WoW.
I've put 50hrs into Palia so far and I'm having a nice time. I'm also a FFXIV endgame raider (and have less of a nice time lol). Palia is not a game intended for this sort of endgame content mill grinds typical of MMOs and players disappointed in that after having done everything else should just find a new game to play. Even the cake parties were a bit contrived in terms of acting as endgame content -- at that point, gold is pretty much a moot point. It is still open beta, sure, so they might come up with more appropriate endgame content, but that sort of thinking is just counter to the whole design of the game in my opinion.
Nonetheless, the devs are experimenting to see what they can add. Just today they added a new obstacle course activity. No exclusive rewards (or really much of rewards), just another way to vibe. Excited to see what S6 does with the game.
That's my jam, right there, and I think the heart of the conversation in topics such as these: is it worth more to be rewarded at the end of an activity, or is the activity itself the reward? Very much a journey v. destination, "the treasure is the friends we made along the way sort of thing."
I'm an avid player of Palia... just today I finally maxed out all the friendship levels and I'm at level 67 in gardening. And yes, I see the problems the article talks about. I'm hitting "the wall" of what there is to do, but the game version is 0.170... it's not at release yet.
I desperately hope they don't introduce a combat element. It's a very chill game, and I'd love it to stay that way. The climbing does need work, that much is true. Also, I feel bad for the players that got shafted by the removal of cake parties, but I also am kind of with S6 on this one, in that they found an unintended consequence and squashed it. Which I feel is a game dev top priority.
I'm about 95% positive on the game, so yes, I'm biased, but I honestly hope this didn't come off rah-rah.
I agree! And I don't think you're coming off as rah-rah at all, though I do love that connotation. I use "rabble rabble" myself.
From my current understanding, Palia is basically meant to be a relaxing, non-combative, "chill" game, ala Animal Crossing, but with more skills to work towards and more community-based gameplay. I feel that to add combat or to acquiesce to the demands of "min-maxers" could negatively impact the core game, if simply for the fact that Palia was never intended to have a combat system beyond hunting. Rather than try and satisfy each and every player, imo it would be more prudent to maintain their current course of direction. You gotta stick to the plan, so to speak.