Obligatory SummoningSalt upload reaction video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZGXWkqAPg Anyway, it's really great that salt finally got to make a video about himself. Man deserves it for all...
Anyway, it's really great that salt finally got to make a video about himself. Man deserves it for all his contributions to the speedrunning community.
I enjoyed the video, as per usual it was great quality and Salt did a great job covering his own records which is a difficult task. What I find interesting is the attitudes these runners have when...
I enjoyed the video, as per usual it was great quality and Salt did a great job covering his own records which is a difficult task.
What I find interesting is the attitudes these runners have when it comes to holding the record. We've seen a lot of people take it and declare a break, or take it then not be happy until the grind it down to something they are personally happy with then take a break. They often come back when new strats are discovered or someone breaks their record.
Salt and AndrewG (from memory, I'm sure there are others) seem to be hungry for the title. When they get it, they keep going. When they get the "God run" they keep going. When someone starts running against them, they double down, increase the gap. It's aggressive competition. I'm sure it's welcomed competition but I got the feeling even from the tone of the video Salt doesn't want someone taking that world record, it's his record and he's proud of it.
Personally, it gives me a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, it's not giving the rest of the leader board any breathing space to even try and catch up. It's preemptively stamping out competition by extinguishing their hopes of chasing the record.
It feels a bit unsportsmanlike to me, but I suppose I understand that's the kind of mindset that you've got to have sometimes to chase a record like that in the first place.
Be curious to know if others share the same thoughts.
Haven't finished the full video, so I don't know if he's being rude about it, but I think it's entirely reasonable to keep trying to improve the record even while he already holds it. Speed...
Haven't finished the full video, so I don't know if he's being rude about it, but I think it's entirely reasonable to keep trying to improve the record even while he already holds it. Speed running is clearly something he loves, and I don't think there should be any expectation that someone stop doing something just to let people catch up.
Sure, the world record holders tend to push themselves even further even after they break a record, or someone threatens to break their old ones, but when they've already invested thousands or...
Sure, the world record holders tend to push themselves even further even after they break a record, or someone threatens to break their old ones, but when they've already invested thousands or tens of thousands of hours into mastering a game, what's a few more runs to them?
But that's not unsportmanslike behavior at all though, IMO. That's just the nature of high-level competition at the very tippy-top end of the scale, where even a tiny mistake, and fractions of a second, makes all the difference. And the only way you get to the top like that is by being incredibly driven and desperately wanting to hold the record, so them doing exactly that, and then wanting to continue holding onto it, feels like an odd complaint.
The same thing happens at the top end of every sport, even physical ones. And yet do you consider Usain Bolt as being "unsportsmanlike" for continuing to compete in track events even after he achieved those records, or for repeatedly attempting to break his own records, and making them as unassailable as he could? I should think not. So I don't see why the top speedrunners should be considered unsportsmanlike for doing the same. Especially since no record is ever truly unassailable.
And I think one thing you may not be aware of is just how much cooperation there is between speedrunners in the community too, since most runners (esp tool-assisted speedrunners) also typically share any new technique or routing tips they discover with the rest of the community too. So while it's true that there is very intense competition at the top, it's typically still friendly competition. Which is why the speedrunning community is generally regarded as one of the friendliest out there, since even the top runners are usually willing to help newer runners learn the ropes. So calling them unsportmanslike is not a fair characterization at all, IMO.
That's a very reasonable argument against my point, thanks. I think speed running for me still sits in a very different headspace from "traditional sports". But that helps join some dots.
That's a very reasonable argument against my point, thanks.
I think speed running for me still sits in a very different headspace from "traditional sports".
But that helps join some dots.
It may be a different headspace for you, but I don't think it's actually a different headspace for the speedrunners. IMO the underlying psychology behind what drives them to work towards attaining...
It may be a different headspace for you, but I don't think it's actually a different headspace for the speedrunners. IMO the underlying psychology behind what drives them to work towards attaining and holding onto world records is the same as what drives athletes to do the same. The only real difference between them is speedrunners can usually still compete well into old age, whereas athletes have a much more difficult time with that. Which also explains why you often see so many old speedrunning record holders suddenly reappear and start competing again when their records finally get broken or nearly broken, but the same doesn't happen in traditional sports. ;)
Related topic:
The quest to beat Matt Turk's World Records in Punch-Out!! (NES)
Obligatory SummoningSalt upload reaction video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZGXWkqAPg
Anyway, it's really great that salt finally got to make a video about himself. Man deserves it for all his contributions to the speedrunning community.
Timestamp for those who want to skip to that part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR1r_9yiKG4#t=1h5m55s
I enjoyed the video, as per usual it was great quality and Salt did a great job covering his own records which is a difficult task.
What I find interesting is the attitudes these runners have when it comes to holding the record. We've seen a lot of people take it and declare a break, or take it then not be happy until the grind it down to something they are personally happy with then take a break. They often come back when new strats are discovered or someone breaks their record.
Salt and AndrewG (from memory, I'm sure there are others) seem to be hungry for the title. When they get it, they keep going. When they get the "God run" they keep going. When someone starts running against them, they double down, increase the gap. It's aggressive competition. I'm sure it's welcomed competition but I got the feeling even from the tone of the video Salt doesn't want someone taking that world record, it's his record and he's proud of it.
Personally, it gives me a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, it's not giving the rest of the leader board any breathing space to even try and catch up. It's preemptively stamping out competition by extinguishing their hopes of chasing the record.
It feels a bit unsportsmanlike to me, but I suppose I understand that's the kind of mindset that you've got to have sometimes to chase a record like that in the first place.
Be curious to know if others share the same thoughts.
Haven't finished the full video, so I don't know if he's being rude about it, but I think it's entirely reasonable to keep trying to improve the record even while he already holds it. Speed running is clearly something he loves, and I don't think there should be any expectation that someone stop doing something just to let people catch up.
Sure, the world record holders tend to push themselves even further even after they break a record, or someone threatens to break their old ones, but when they've already invested thousands or tens of thousands of hours into mastering a game, what's a few more runs to them?
But that's not unsportmanslike behavior at all though, IMO. That's just the nature of high-level competition at the very tippy-top end of the scale, where even a tiny mistake, and fractions of a second, makes all the difference. And the only way you get to the top like that is by being incredibly driven and desperately wanting to hold the record, so them doing exactly that, and then wanting to continue holding onto it, feels like an odd complaint.
The same thing happens at the top end of every sport, even physical ones. And yet do you consider Usain Bolt as being "unsportsmanlike" for continuing to compete in track events even after he achieved those records, or for repeatedly attempting to break his own records, and making them as unassailable as he could? I should think not. So I don't see why the top speedrunners should be considered unsportsmanlike for doing the same. Especially since no record is ever truly unassailable.
And I think one thing you may not be aware of is just how much cooperation there is between speedrunners in the community too, since most runners (esp tool-assisted speedrunners) also typically share any new technique or routing tips they discover with the rest of the community too. So while it's true that there is very intense competition at the top, it's typically still friendly competition. Which is why the speedrunning community is generally regarded as one of the friendliest out there, since even the top runners are usually willing to help newer runners learn the ropes. So calling them unsportmanslike is not a fair characterization at all, IMO.
That's a very reasonable argument against my point, thanks.
I think speed running for me still sits in a very different headspace from "traditional sports".
But that helps join some dots.
It may be a different headspace for you, but I don't think it's actually a different headspace for the speedrunners. IMO the underlying psychology behind what drives them to work towards attaining and holding onto world records is the same as what drives athletes to do the same. The only real difference between them is speedrunners can usually still compete well into old age, whereas athletes have a much more difficult time with that. Which also explains why you often see so many old speedrunning record holders suddenly reappear and start competing again when their records finally get broken or nearly broken, but the same doesn't happen in traditional sports. ;)
Spoiler-free post:
If you have been following his videos and going in blind into this one, the plot twist is A-MA-ZING <3