10 votes

Banned Twitch streamers defend slurs, but say language has evolved

13 comments

  1. [6]
    dubteedub
    Link
    I find it really disturbing how slurs like "f**" are now considered normal by such a large portion of the internet / gaming communities I really blame South Park for normalizing this behavior so much.

    I find it really disturbing how slurs like "f**" are now considered normal by such a large portion of the internet / gaming communities

    I really blame South Park for normalizing this behavior so much.

    14 votes
    1. [5]
      Douglas
      Link Parent
      Didn't you hear? Homophobic slurs don't have anything to do with homosexuality anymore, they're just meant to say something isn't approved! ...even though we all know where the slurs came from,...

      Didn't you hear? Homophobic slurs don't have anything to do with homosexuality anymore, they're just meant to say something isn't approved! ...even though we all know where the slurs came from, and even though LGBTQs are still fighting an uphill battle and the people who hate them still use those slurs against them, it's all OK to use these slurs because we-- in our immediate environment-- say so!

      ...so goddamn stupid. Those guys are great sometimes, but incredibly naive in others, and the audience they have access to is just going to gobble it all up without giving it a second thought.

      18 votes
      1. rodya
        Link Parent
        It's like they're unable to comprehend that a world exists outside their immediate perception. Like, it's possible both that homophobic slurs are a tool of continued oppression AND that certain...

        It's like they're unable to comprehend that a world exists outside their immediate perception. Like, it's possible both that homophobic slurs are a tool of continued oppression AND that certain slurs have become so ubiquitous online that they've lost much of their original homophobic intent.

        13 votes
      2. [3]
        anti
        Link Parent
        I mean I'm gay and I don't care if people use it unless it's directed at me or someone specifically because I or they are gay. Stop word policing. Police intent instead.

        I mean I'm gay and I don't care if people use it unless it's directed at me or someone specifically because I or they are gay.

        Stop word policing. Police intent instead.

        7 votes
        1. tvfj
          Link Parent
          Calling someone a fag is saying they are less of a man, a meaning that can only be derived from its use against gay men. Using the word as an insult shows intent to affirm that.

          Calling someone a fag is saying they are less of a man, a meaning that can only be derived from its use against gay men. Using the word as an insult shows intent to affirm that.

          13 votes
        2. NubWizard
          Link Parent
          I think its much harder to police intent than it is to police words. I get so hung up on arguments when it devolves into people accusing each other of arguing in bad faith instead of arguing for...

          I think its much harder to police intent than it is to police words. I get so hung up on arguments when it devolves into people accusing each other of arguing in bad faith instead of arguing for what they know is real, the words they are saying.

  2. [2]
    Catt
    Link
    The lack of self reflection is incredible. They would rather defend a problematic term to just don't use it. If you want to be a jerk online, there are plenty of colourful words that don't fall...

    The lack of self reflection is incredible. They would rather defend a problematic term to just don't use it. If you want to be a jerk online, there are plenty of colourful words that don't fall into possible hate speech.

    8 votes
    1. nothis
      Link Parent
      But did you hear that female streamers wear really revealing clothing? For some reason, that's the real outrage in the corners of the internet where someone would go to great lengths to defend...

      But did you hear that female streamers wear really revealing clothing? For some reason, that's the real outrage in the corners of the internet where someone would go to great lengths to defend homophobic slurs. It's a weird/sad community. A little media-sunlight would be healthy but they fight it so hard!

      2 votes
  3. [2]
    Tiercel
    Link
    Very often, words that mean "good" to one generation get flipped to mean "bad" in another generation, as generations try to distance themselves from their elders. She even mentions the evolution...

    Very often, words that mean "good" to one generation get flipped to mean "bad" in another generation, as generations try to distance themselves from their elders.

    She even mentions the evolution of "dope" in her discussions on this.

    Her "power" comments just come off to me as an excuse to ignore the logic of other examples that we, as a society, are fine with accepting their change in definition.

    Asking someone from the 50's what calling someone "gay" means will give you a different answer than someone in the 80's or someone in the current day. Same with "queer" or "nerd" or "geek" or many other terms. The reply above is right that words should be judged by intent.

    7 votes
    1. Emerald_Knight
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This is an interesting point that you bring up and I want to add something to think about: Directionality of change is important. The term "dope", for instance, was typically used in a negative...

      This is an interesting point that you bring up and I want to add something to think about:

      Directionality of change is important. The term "dope", for instance, was typically used in a negative context, but has now been repurposed for positive contexts. Thus, the term is not used in a way that perpetuates oppression of people who may have once been labeled as dopes. Let's call this a positive directionality.

      A term like "gay" is different, however. When used as slang, it's treated as a way to insult someone or something. It perpetuates the oppression of anyone who is defined by the term because people associate the word "gay" with "bad" or "stupid". It's use in such contexts is inherently harmful. Let's call this a negative directionality.

      In addition, let's call any edge case where a term already has an existing positive context and it's being used in a different positive context as still being positive directionality, and likewise an existing and new negative context results in a still negative directionality.

      With this in mind, we can say that positive directionalities are generally acceptable and negative directionalities are generally unacceptable, even if those directionalities are rejected by the majority in the beginning. This is something that we can generally observe to be true.

      4 votes
  4. [3]
    stromm
    Link
    I'm 48 and have seen slurs turn into acceptable use within related specific groups and normal words become slurs because a specific group decides to take ownership of it with the intent that it is...

    I'm 48 and have seen slurs turn into acceptable use within related specific groups and normal words become slurs because a specific group decides to take ownership of it with the intent that it is offensive to them and only them.

    It's also now common that groups crying foul of slurs, claim they are excluded from being accountable for the use of a slur, simply because of their grouping.

    This all pisses me off.

    If ANYONE is allowed to use a "slur", then it's not a freaking slur.

    But the thing is, that's not how slurs are treated.

    I was raised that "stick and stone will break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Honestly, I don't give a shit what you call me as long as it's not libel or slander. Call me a cr@cker or wh!tey or h0nkey or four-eyes or whatever. I couldn't care at all.

    And I'll never accept "you can't use the n-word, but I can because I'm black" BS. Yet that happens ALL the time. I also am friends with many homosexuals. Many of them and their group throw slurs specific to their group around with the expectation that they can because they are. All BS.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      OptimalBasis
      Link Parent
      Slurs against minorities carry the weight of years of hate and violence. Black people were enslaved, beaten, and lynched simply for their skin color. Calling someone the n-word evokes that...

      Slurs against minorities carry the weight of years of hate and violence. Black people were enslaved, beaten, and lynched simply for their skin color. Calling someone the n-word evokes that history.

      It doesn't mean much to use a slur against a white person since there isn't the history of oppression. Unless you're using a more specific epithet against Italians and Irish people, who were targeted in the past.

      9 votes
      1. stromm
        Link Parent
        Sorry, I hate when people pull the "black people were slaves". Yea, so were whites, so were Asians, so were Arabs, so were MezoAmericans. News Flash: EVERY "race" has been enslaved. Heck, many...

        Sorry, I hate when people pull the "black people were slaves". Yea, so were whites, so were Asians, so were Arabs, so were MezoAmericans. News Flash: EVERY "race" has been enslaved. Heck, many still are, right now, this very day.

        "It doesn't mean much to use a slur against a white person"...

        WTF dude! You couldn't be more wrong. And if you truly believe that, well, THAT is being racist.

        Again, there is oppression for whites. Even slavery. Did no one teach you that?

        It's interesting that your last statement actually contradicts your point that there isn't a history of oppression. You just basically said that 2+2 does not equal 4, but 1+1+2 equals 4.

        So back to my point, people who cry that slurs hurt them, lose that right when they use slurs themselves.