I think loot boxes should be allowed but instantly give a game an R rating for gambling. Loot boxes almost alway operate on an game currency rather than money directly. Such as crate keys in csgo....
I think loot boxes should be allowed but instantly give a game an R rating for gambling.
Loot boxes almost alway operate on an game currency rather than money directly. Such as crate keys in csgo.
That's one of the most predatory parts in my opinion since people forget its real money. But usually if the developer would put in money directly to open crates, it would count as gambling under the laws of many countries.
I don't think it should be prohibited completely, people are allowed to go to casino's and gamble too. However for casino's it is much easier to ban children from partaking.
Casinos are also highly regulated. A slot machine can be examined to determine if it's a fair game, and if it isn't then it's not allowed on the floor. Games have no equivalent guidelines and also...
I don't think it should be prohibited completely, people are allowed to go to casino's and gamble too. However for casino's it is much easier to ban children from partaking.
Casinos are also highly regulated. A slot machine can be examined to determine if it's a fair game, and if it isn't then it's not allowed on the floor. Games have no equivalent guidelines and also make it easier to exploit human psychology. For example, on a slot machine even if you don't win you know what symbols came up. A game can be programmed to make it look like you 'almost won' even when that isn't the case. The feeling of almost winning spurs people on to continue playing, making the game even more addictive than its analogue counterpart.
I'm generally of the rate and regulate mindset too. "Gambling" is a natural part of a lot of games, it's just so exploitative now that it's become more predatory than fun.
I'm generally of the rate and regulate mindset too.
"Gambling" is a natural part of a lot of games, it's just so exploitative now that it's become more predatory than fun.
In the case of CS:GO for instance, where items can be sold for nothing less than insane amounts of money, I personally don't think there's even a question if it's gambling. In Overwatch, I think...
In the case of CS:GO for instance, where items can be sold for nothing less than insane amounts of money, I personally don't think there's even a question if it's gambling.
In Overwatch, I think it's different in the way that all you can win is a cool look and if you wanted to make money from it, you'd have to actually sell the account (which is not allowed according to Blizzards ToC), but I don't think there's really a market for anything other than boosted accounts.
Hearthstone is a little different yet, you practically have to pay an increasing amount to be able to compete every time a new expansion comes out and the meta changes, and I think, personally, that I would prefer to pay for the expansion/DLC and get all the new cards instead of spending repeated small amounts and usually turn up short. I feel like it's still gambling.
Even in the case of OW, I think there's at least some aspect of gambling,but I feel different about it for two reasons:
It's just cosmetic and won't actually make you more likely to win.
You can't reasonably easily sell them for whatever profit.
I think it should be regulated. Gambling is for adults, not children and there should be clear numbers to portray winning chances.
Agree with your examples. When I think of drops and such, it's just part of the game, as long as you can't use real money to buy anything. Hearthstone is a weird one for me. I use to play Magic...
Agree with your examples. When I think of drops and such, it's just part of the game, as long as you can't use real money to buy anything.
Hearthstone is a weird one for me. I use to play Magic and basically got priced out because they keep introducing in my opinion OP cards/combos that really needed to be bought. So games like Hearthstone and Magic feel more like a cost to the game than a loot box. Though I can't really express why, so maybe I'm just desensitized from my years playing MTG.
I agree that situations where the prizes can’t be sold are different, but I think that they’re still fairly clearly predatory. The question then is whether the level of gambling is acceptable, and...
I agree that situations where the prizes can’t be sold are different, but I think that they’re still fairly clearly predatory. The question then is whether the level of gambling is acceptable, and unfortunately based on real-life examples like claw machines which are similarly marketed to children I suspect that they’re perfectly legal. I’m far from a lawyer, though.
As for the other issue of when prizes can be sold, I’m coming to the opinion that any real-money secondary markets in video games should cause the game to be age-restricted. Even in cases with no obvious gambling aspect there are almost always random events leading to the purchases, and from what I remember it seems like these markets almost never have a positive effect on gameplay. Again, though, I doubt they could be argued to be illegal except in the cases where outright gambling and a secondary market are combined.
it is 100% gambling. you pay money for a chance to win something worth more money. I see the argument that in games like csgo, your not winning money, you win items. However, those items can be...
it is 100% gambling. you pay money for a chance to win something worth more money. I see the argument that in games like csgo, your not winning money, you win items. However, those items can be exchanged for money. To me, that's like saying poker isnt gambling because you get poker chips, not money. everyone knows that those chips in poker and skins in games can be exchanged for money. In csgo, it says the $$$ amount right on the item in your inventory
What about card or sticker collection packets. Like the football stickers or Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Those are definitely solid to kids, so what's your stance on them in terms of being gambling and what's...
What about card or sticker collection packets. Like the football stickers or Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Those are definitely solid to kids, so what's your stance on them in terms of being gambling and what's different when compared to a loot crate.
I think there's a difference between an element of chance being in a game and outright gambling. I use to play MTG and a bit of Yugioh, and personally the difference is that we all knew the chance...
I think there's a difference between an element of chance being in a game and outright gambling. I use to play MTG and a bit of Yugioh, and personally the difference is that we all knew the chance of getting certain cards werent crazy and in general you can play with pretty much anything you get in a pack or starter set.
Of course I eventually gave up on MTG because it was too expensive. So, my opinion is a but biased.
The loot boxes nowadays aren't design for gameplay, but to basically be slot machines, which I believe require ratings, rules and regulations.
But that applies to loot boxes as well, right? We know the chance of getting that rare knife skin we want is tiny, and the game is perfectly playable even with the intentionally bland starting...
I use to play MTG and a bit of Yugioh, and personally the difference is that we all knew the chance of getting certain cards werent crazy and in general you can play with pretty much anything you get in a pack or starter set.
But that applies to loot boxes as well, right? We know the chance of getting that rare knife skin we want is tiny, and the game is perfectly playable even with the intentionally bland starting gear.
I'm not even sure why I'm so indifferent to collectible card games yet fiercely opposed to loot boxes in video games. CCGs feel a lot less predatory to me, even though many of the gambling mechanics are the same. I think the big difference is that I'm simply less exposed to CCGs.
Loot boxes are much harder to avoid. Play any popular video game, and you'll get constant reminders that they exist, with the publishers shoving them in your face every chance they get.
I'm definitely in favour of loot box regulation, maybe even complete bans. Such regulation might end up vague enough to also impact CCGs.
It's definitely complicated. I think it really depends how fair the odds are and how much you need it to reasonably play the game. Personally, MTG really started feeling like loot boxes, though I...
But that applies to loot boxes as well, right? We know the chance of getting that rare knife skin we want is tiny, and the game is perfectly playable even with the intentionally bland starting gear.
It's definitely complicated. I think it really depends how fair the odds are and how much you need it to reasonably play the game. Personally, MTG really started feeling like loot boxes, though I do know people who win competitions with $15-20 decks. And I mostly played with real cards, so it's much less instantaneous. I know casinos (at some point at least, I notice they have lots of buttons now), had to change their slot machines a while back when they went from levers to buttons, since it became too easy for a person to just press buttons and they tired less than having to use there whole arm. This ease sort of goes with your:
Loot boxes are much harder to avoid.
They're right there in the game and the game itself points you constantly to the loot box. At least with physical card games, you have to make a trip to the store (or I guess order it online).
I think loot boxes should be allowed but instantly give a game an R rating for gambling.
Loot boxes almost alway operate on an game currency rather than money directly. Such as crate keys in csgo.
That's one of the most predatory parts in my opinion since people forget its real money. But usually if the developer would put in money directly to open crates, it would count as gambling under the laws of many countries.
I don't think it should be prohibited completely, people are allowed to go to casino's and gamble too. However for casino's it is much easier to ban children from partaking.
Casinos are also highly regulated. A slot machine can be examined to determine if it's a fair game, and if it isn't then it's not allowed on the floor. Games have no equivalent guidelines and also make it easier to exploit human psychology. For example, on a slot machine even if you don't win you know what symbols came up. A game can be programmed to make it look like you 'almost won' even when that isn't the case. The feeling of almost winning spurs people on to continue playing, making the game even more addictive than its analogue counterpart.
I'm generally of the rate and regulate mindset too.
"Gambling" is a natural part of a lot of games, it's just so exploitative now that it's become more predatory than fun.
In the case of CS:GO for instance, where items can be sold for nothing less than insane amounts of money, I personally don't think there's even a question if it's gambling.
In Overwatch, I think it's different in the way that all you can win is a cool look and if you wanted to make money from it, you'd have to actually sell the account (which is not allowed according to Blizzards ToC), but I don't think there's really a market for anything other than boosted accounts.
Hearthstone is a little different yet, you practically have to pay an increasing amount to be able to compete every time a new expansion comes out and the meta changes, and I think, personally, that I would prefer to pay for the expansion/DLC and get all the new cards instead of spending repeated small amounts and usually turn up short. I feel like it's still gambling.
Even in the case of OW, I think there's at least some aspect of gambling,but I feel different about it for two reasons:
I think it should be regulated. Gambling is for adults, not children and there should be clear numbers to portray winning chances.
Agree with your examples. When I think of drops and such, it's just part of the game, as long as you can't use real money to buy anything.
Hearthstone is a weird one for me. I use to play Magic and basically got priced out because they keep introducing in my opinion OP cards/combos that really needed to be bought. So games like Hearthstone and Magic feel more like a cost to the game than a loot box. Though I can't really express why, so maybe I'm just desensitized from my years playing MTG.
I agree that situations where the prizes can’t be sold are different, but I think that they’re still fairly clearly predatory. The question then is whether the level of gambling is acceptable, and unfortunately based on real-life examples like claw machines which are similarly marketed to children I suspect that they’re perfectly legal. I’m far from a lawyer, though.
As for the other issue of when prizes can be sold, I’m coming to the opinion that any real-money secondary markets in video games should cause the game to be age-restricted. Even in cases with no obvious gambling aspect there are almost always random events leading to the purchases, and from what I remember it seems like these markets almost never have a positive effect on gameplay. Again, though, I doubt they could be argued to be illegal except in the cases where outright gambling and a secondary market are combined.
it is 100% gambling. you pay money for a chance to win something worth more money. I see the argument that in games like csgo, your not winning money, you win items. However, those items can be exchanged for money. To me, that's like saying poker isnt gambling because you get poker chips, not money. everyone knows that those chips in poker and skins in games can be exchanged for money. In csgo, it says the $$$ amount right on the item in your inventory
What about card or sticker collection packets. Like the football stickers or Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Those are definitely solid to kids, so what's your stance on them in terms of being gambling and what's different when compared to a loot crate.
I think there's a difference between an element of chance being in a game and outright gambling. I use to play MTG and a bit of Yugioh, and personally the difference is that we all knew the chance of getting certain cards werent crazy and in general you can play with pretty much anything you get in a pack or starter set.
Of course I eventually gave up on MTG because it was too expensive. So, my opinion is a but biased.
The loot boxes nowadays aren't design for gameplay, but to basically be slot machines, which I believe require ratings, rules and regulations.
But that applies to loot boxes as well, right? We know the chance of getting that rare knife skin we want is tiny, and the game is perfectly playable even with the intentionally bland starting gear.
I'm not even sure why I'm so indifferent to collectible card games yet fiercely opposed to loot boxes in video games. CCGs feel a lot less predatory to me, even though many of the gambling mechanics are the same. I think the big difference is that I'm simply less exposed to CCGs.
Loot boxes are much harder to avoid. Play any popular video game, and you'll get constant reminders that they exist, with the publishers shoving them in your face every chance they get.
I'm definitely in favour of loot box regulation, maybe even complete bans. Such regulation might end up vague enough to also impact CCGs.
It's definitely complicated. I think it really depends how fair the odds are and how much you need it to reasonably play the game. Personally, MTG really started feeling like loot boxes, though I do know people who win competitions with $15-20 decks. And I mostly played with real cards, so it's much less instantaneous. I know casinos (at some point at least, I notice they have lots of buttons now), had to change their slot machines a while back when they went from levers to buttons, since it became too easy for a person to just press buttons and they tired less than having to use there whole arm. This ease sort of goes with your:
They're right there in the game and the game itself points you constantly to the loot box. At least with physical card games, you have to make a trip to the store (or I guess order it online).
I'd rather see people grinding for high quality items rather than paying real money for it and/or gambling.