Notice how the ruling of Roe v. Wade resulted in a full generation of concerted effort to stack courts to repeal it? This will probably not be as long-lasting. It'll only take one full polio...
Notice how the ruling of Roe v. Wade resulted in a full generation of concerted effort to stack courts to repeal it?
This will probably not be as long-lasting. It'll only take one full polio outbreak and a good majority of the antivaxxers will learn a valuable lesson about why we listen to scientists and not propaganda. Or die in denial.
I propose a "you must pay for your own polio care if you refuse vaccination" law. Usual caveats for herd protection neccesity, obviously. But not religious exemption. You want to skip vaccinnes because of something spiritual, your god can help you gather the funding to pay for your treatment.
People's spouses and other family members were literally dying of COVID and they still stood by their misguided beliefs (to say the least about it). There are countless stories of people...
People's spouses and other family members were literally dying of COVID and they still stood by their misguided beliefs (to say the least about it). There are countless stories of people themselves, who were dying of COVID, still saying COVID was a hoax. And/or it was "the 5G" killing them.
In some ways, I wouldn't mind if they were keeping their beliefs for themselves. You don't want to get vaccinated and you contract a rather deadly disease? Fine. I mean, it's not fine since immunocompromised individuals can still get sick from them. They can still spread disease to even healthy people. But people have the "freedom" to choose stupidity for themselves. I guess.
But it wasn't just them not wanting to wear a mask. Or wash their hands. Or get vaccinated. No, that wasn't good enough. They wanted EVERYONE to do as they did (or didn't). And they were willing to use force of law to do so.
So I'm not as confident as you are that people will change. Even if they're personally affected. Some will; we admittedly saw that some of that during this pandemic. But I suspect many will just die. And they'll keep spouting off their BS to the end. And we, as a society, will be less prepared to deal with it all.
Can't fix these types of problems without first fixing education (funding, quality and availability). Unfortunately these people often hate education too.
Can't fix these types of problems without first fixing education (funding, quality and availability). Unfortunately these people often hate education too.
Let me be more clear: I expect most to die. I'm saying it's not going to be as easily multigenerational. In the same way that being anti-procreation makes it hard to sustain the Shakers(good...
Let me be more clear: I expect most to die.
I'm saying it's not going to be as easily multigenerational. In the same way that being anti-procreation makes it hard to sustain the Shakers(good riddance).
We all die eventually. It's usually long after having kids, though, and communities did mostly sustain themselves before vaccines existed. It takes more than a few plagues to kill everyone off....
We all die eventually. It's usually long after having kids, though, and communities did mostly sustain themselves before vaccines existed. It takes more than a few plagues to kill everyone off.
The Shakers were celibate, so it's not a good comparison. Celibate communities (such as monasteries) need to recruit new initiates from the outside community.
That's literally what happened? I'm not sure why you think things will play out differently in the future? This already has more or less been playing out among insurance. The reason so many...
Or die in denial.
That's literally what happened? I'm not sure why you think things will play out differently in the future?
I propose a "you must pay for your own polio care if you deny vaccination" law.
This already has more or less been playing out among insurance. The reason so many employers eventually mandated vaccines was that insurance companies decided that it would cost more to insure unvaccinated individuals in order to offset the increased healthcare costs of their decision.
Because the antivaxxers didn't die from COVID. Not most if them anyway. The vast majority of antivaxxers are younger. So they largely didn't die, and it fueled survivorship bias in a big way. Some...
That's literally what happened? I'm not sure why you think things will play out differently in the future?
Because the antivaxxers didn't die from COVID. Not most if them anyway. The vast majority of antivaxxers are younger. So they largely didn't die, and it fueled survivorship bias in a big way.
Some measles and polio outbreaks will be a lot more tangible beyond 'worse cold/flu of my life.' In part because theres a lot more nasty, uncurable-symptom grey area between asymptomatic and death than COVID was.
In the end, I don't see a sizeable antivaxx movement persisting for 50+ years and dictating the political discourse for 100+. It's one of those self-correcting problems where people will learn, or they will die.
When the next pandemic sweeps the United States, health officials in Ohio won’t be able to shutter businesses or schools, even if they become epicenters of outbreaks. Nor will they be empowered to force Ohioans who have been exposed to go into quarantine. State officials in North Dakota are barred from directing people to wear masks to slow the spread. Not even the president can force federal agencies to issue vaccination or testing mandates to thwart its march.
[...]
At least 30 states, nearly all led by Republican legislatures, have passed laws since 2020 that limit public health authority, according to a Washington Post analysis of laws collected by Kaiser Health News and the Associated Press as well as the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials and the Center for Public Health Law Research at Temple University.
Health officials and governors in more than half the country are now restricted from issuing mask mandates, ordering school closures and imposing other protective measures or must seek permission from their state legislatures before renewing emergency orders, the analysis showed.
[...]
The Alabama legislature barred businesses from requiring proof of coronavirus vaccination. In Tennessee, officials cannot close churches during a state of emergency. Florida made it illegal for schools to require coronavirus vaccinations.
[...]
The consequences are already playing out in Columbus, Ohio, where a child with measles was able to wander around a mall before showing symptoms in November, potentially spreading the highly contagious disease. The state legislature in 2021 had stripped the city health commissioner’s ability to order someone suspected of having an infectious disease to quarantine.
Columbus Health Commissioner Mysheika Roberts bemoans the basic public health functions she has lost control of — such as the ability to shut down a restaurant with a hepatitis A outbreak as she had done before covid. “All the other workers exposed preparing food for others to eat — they could continue to go to work and shed hepatitis A” under the new legislation, she said.
In Wisconsin, the constant threat of lawsuits by the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty has made officials wary of acting quickly to address any public health threat, said Kirsten Johnson, the former health commissioner of Milwaukee who is now the state’s health secretary.
Before the pandemic, Johnson said, she had threatened to shut down a prominent local golf tournament after E. coli was found in the well water, which forced the organizers to bring in bottled water. Now, she said, she’s afraid to issue such a threat, for fear of legal retribution.
Notice how the ruling of Roe v. Wade resulted in a full generation of concerted effort to stack courts to repeal it?
This will probably not be as long-lasting. It'll only take one full polio outbreak and a good majority of the antivaxxers will learn a valuable lesson about why we listen to scientists and not propaganda. Or die in denial.
I propose a "you must pay for your own polio care if you refuse vaccination" law. Usual caveats for herd protection neccesity, obviously. But not religious exemption. You want to skip vaccinnes because of something spiritual, your god can help you gather the funding to pay for your treatment.
People's spouses and other family members were literally dying of COVID and they still stood by their misguided beliefs (to say the least about it). There are countless stories of people themselves, who were dying of COVID, still saying COVID was a hoax. And/or it was "the 5G" killing them.
In some ways, I wouldn't mind if they were keeping their beliefs for themselves. You don't want to get vaccinated and you contract a rather deadly disease? Fine. I mean, it's not fine since immunocompromised individuals can still get sick from them. They can still spread disease to even healthy people. But people have the "freedom" to choose stupidity for themselves. I guess.
But it wasn't just them not wanting to wear a mask. Or wash their hands. Or get vaccinated. No, that wasn't good enough. They wanted EVERYONE to do as they did (or didn't). And they were willing to use force of law to do so.
So I'm not as confident as you are that people will change. Even if they're personally affected. Some will; we admittedly saw that some of that during this pandemic. But I suspect many will just die. And they'll keep spouting off their BS to the end. And we, as a society, will be less prepared to deal with it all.
Can't fix these types of problems without first fixing education (funding, quality and availability). Unfortunately these people often hate education too.
Let me be more clear: I expect most to die.
I'm saying it's not going to be as easily multigenerational. In the same way that being anti-procreation makes it hard to sustain the Shakers(good riddance).
We all die eventually. It's usually long after having kids, though, and communities did mostly sustain themselves before vaccines existed. It takes more than a few plagues to kill everyone off.
The Shakers were celibate, so it's not a good comparison. Celibate communities (such as monasteries) need to recruit new initiates from the outside community.
That's literally what happened? I'm not sure why you think things will play out differently in the future?
This already has more or less been playing out among insurance. The reason so many employers eventually mandated vaccines was that insurance companies decided that it would cost more to insure unvaccinated individuals in order to offset the increased healthcare costs of their decision.
Because the antivaxxers didn't die from COVID. Not most if them anyway. The vast majority of antivaxxers are younger. So they largely didn't die, and it fueled survivorship bias in a big way.
Some measles and polio outbreaks will be a lot more tangible beyond 'worse cold/flu of my life.' In part because theres a lot more nasty, uncurable-symptom grey area between asymptomatic and death than COVID was.
In the end, I don't see a sizeable antivaxx movement persisting for 50+ years and dictating the political discourse for 100+. It's one of those self-correcting problems where people will learn, or they will die.
From the article:
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