FDA regulating vape juice is something that's been needed and if they're going to do that while cracking down on the sketchy crap that's making people sick, that's great. One thing I'm not crazy...
FDA regulating vape juice is something that's been needed and if they're going to do that while cracking down on the sketchy crap that's making people sick, that's great. One thing I'm not crazy about is the abrupt ban on flavored vape juices. Yes, companies can get FDA-approval down the road, but do we really need to ban ALL flavored juices all at once like that? The stuff you buy at the local vape shop isn't what's making people sick. I'd rather see the FDA set a deadline a year out for companies to get approval, and then ban all non-approved juices after that point.
Edit: yet again Tildestinos come through with better information than I had. Both Deimos and Patience_Limited have superb comments down-thread. Please read them! AFAIK, it was vitamin E used in...
Edit: yet again Tildestinos come through with better information than I had. Both Deimos and Patience_Limited have superb comments down-thread. Please read them!
AFAIK, it was vitamin E used in “bootleg” THC carts that’s the problem currently. The vitamin E boosted the test results for THC content up to >90%.
Flavored E-Cig carts are absolutely in need of regs, as popcorn lung is a thing. But it has nothing to do with the 6 deaths that have just occurred.
I can dig for sources on all that if anyone wants.
There's no proof, as yet, that tocopherol acetate (the oily vitamin E ester found in some sampled THC cartridges) is the cause of the pneumonitis in affected cases. It's been in use practically...
Exemplary
There's no proof, as yet, that tocopherol acetate (the oily vitamin E ester found in some sampled THC cartridges) is the cause of the pneumonitis in affected cases. It's been in use practically from the beginning of THC cartridge manufacture, though there are now multiple branded THC cutting agent products for vaping use.
Also, there are reported cases in people who verifiably never used THC products, who bought THC cartridges at licensed dispensaries, or commercially packaged nicotine liquids.
In some cases, they're finding lipid droplets in immune cells present in the lungs. That can occur in severe inflammation, even without oil exposure. But overall, there's no consistent pattern of diagnosed injury in the current epidemic.
The described conditions and x-ray reports reflect a mix of eosinophilic pneumonia (usually an allergic-type response), chemical pneumonitis (usually a direct toxic injury from strong irritants), lipoid pneumonia (a combination of physical irritation and immune foreign-body response to inhaled oils), and diffuse alveolar hemorrhage (a poorly understood, but often life-threatening disorder that involves immune responses in lung capillaries - sometimes triggered by chemical exposure or infections).
It's kind of a mess for epidemiological tracing.
As the public health authorities are saying, loudly and frequently, lungs are meant for clean air. There are plenty of accepted nicotine and THC vaping additives, heating byproducts, and known trace metal or other contaminants which could cause these responses. Isolated case reports of severe disease have been coming in for years (usually in people with a history of extended, heavy vaping, and sometimes concurrent infections), but no reported direct fatalities.
But the consensus is, as you indicated, that the recent dramatic increase in reported cases and cluster of deaths, are suggestive of unknown contaminants, not a generic issue with vaping. Despite the known toxic components and exposures in nicotine and THC vaping products, there's no obvious culprit for severe pneumonitis from a single exposure in typical use.
[There are certainly potential contaminants that could be responsible. I can think of a scare when cannabis contaminated with the herbicide paraquat hit the streets in the 1970's and 80's. Paraquat is known to produce a similar variety of severe pneumonia symptoms with accidental or intentional poisoning. We had a major review on this episode in my tox class - the literature [PDF warning] said dangerous levels of paraquat were present in street marijuana sampling, but there were no cases of confirmed injury from routine pot smoking, likely because combustion temperatures break it down. Paraquat is still used for agriculture and drug interdiction, though it's banned in the EU. There's increasing demand due to glyphosate-resistant weeds, and paraquat or something like it might be present in resin extracts.]
In any case, vaping, even unflavored liquids, isn't great for long-term health - PG and glycerin form some nasty byproducts when heated, tobacco-derived nicotine can contain cancer-causing nitrosamines. I can't even find good data on all the THC extracts, wax, and shatter products, which are consumed at much higher temperatures than nicotine liquids.
Our laboratory is working closely with our federal and state partners to identify the products or substances that may be causing the illnesses and have received more than 120 samples from the states so far. The FDA is analyzing these for a broad range of chemicals but no one substance, including Vitamin E acetate, has been identified in all of the samples tested.
This is targeted at the high level of youth usage of nicotine products, not the separate lung disease concerns (which seem to be related to THC cartridges, not nicotine/tobacco ones):
This is targeted at the high level of youth usage of nicotine products, not the separate lung disease concerns (which seem to be related to THC cartridges, not nicotine/tobacco ones):
In particular, the preliminary data show that more than a quarter of high school students were current (past 30 day) e-cigarette users in 2019 and the overwhelming majority of youth e-cigarette users cited the use of popular fruit and menthol or mint flavors.
Yeah, no doubt that's a major issue and I'm glad to see that addressed. Article does also mention they're going after "unauthorized" products, which I took to be in reference to the questionable...
Yeah, no doubt that's a major issue and I'm glad to see that addressed. Article does also mention they're going after "unauthorized" products, which I took to be in reference to the questionable and illegally sold THC juices that are related to the stories about people getting ill. Although its also worth noting that the CDC recommended people stop vaping entirely as non-THC products couldn't be completely confirmed to be the cause.
Also think this could be a case where the FDA is "quick" to take action in part because vaping concerns are a hot topic right now in the media.
I think you're misinterpreting it. They're not completely banning all flavored products, but they're requiring that you get approval from the FDA ("premarket authorization requirements") to be...
I think you're misinterpreting it. They're not completely banning all flavored products, but they're requiring that you get approval from the FDA ("premarket authorization requirements") to be able to sell a flavored one. So the "unauthorized products" will be flavored ones without FDA approval, not the THC cartridges. That's a completely separate subject.
I honestly think this whole thing really sums up the Trump administration. Either it's going to get done !!!RIGHT NOW!!! without any prior heads-up or planning or phasing out, because of a...
I honestly think this whole thing really sums up the Trump administration.
Either it's going to get done !!!RIGHT NOW!!! without any prior heads-up or planning or phasing out, because of a kneejerk reaction to a headline, or it doesn't get done at all because ol' Donny's already forgot about it. I think that's why every action this front office has taken has been so chaotic and unorganized, because they don't know if it's still on Trump's mind or if he's already moved on.
With that said, I think this is a great move, and I'm surprised that e-cigs aren't regulated at this level already. I used to drive for uber in a college town and it was shocking and depressing how many college kids didn't understand that vapes and juuls had nicotine in them. I had way too many conversations along the lines of, "This doesn't have nicotine, that's the stuff that goes in cigarettes," "Yeah, and what do you think goes in a juul pod?" "I dunno, tastes good though." >.>
Hate to say it, but the CDC is just following in the footsteps of my state's Democratic Party governor's order. I don't think the p*Resident has anything to do with the decision, and if he does...
Hate to say it, but the CDC is just following in the footsteps of my state's Democratic Party governor's order. I don't think the p*Resident has anything to do with the decision, and if he does intervene, it will be to Roll Back Regulations That Hurt Our Businesses, or something like that. On the other hand, most e-smoking devices come from China, so there's that potential for trade Winning...
FDA regulating vape juice is something that's been needed and if they're going to do that while cracking down on the sketchy crap that's making people sick, that's great. One thing I'm not crazy about is the abrupt ban on flavored vape juices. Yes, companies can get FDA-approval down the road, but do we really need to ban ALL flavored juices all at once like that? The stuff you buy at the local vape shop isn't what's making people sick. I'd rather see the FDA set a deadline a year out for companies to get approval, and then ban all non-approved juices after that point.
Edit: yet again Tildestinos come through with better information than I had. Both Deimos and Patience_Limited have superb comments down-thread. Please read them!
AFAIK, it was vitamin E used in “bootleg” THC carts that’s the problem currently. The vitamin E boosted the test results for THC content up to >90%.
Flavored E-Cig carts are absolutely in need of regs, as popcorn lung is a thing. But it has nothing to do with the 6 deaths that have just occurred.
I can dig for sources on all that if anyone wants.
There's no proof, as yet, that tocopherol acetate (the oily vitamin E ester found in some sampled THC cartridges) is the cause of the pneumonitis in affected cases. It's been in use practically from the beginning of THC cartridge manufacture, though there are now multiple branded THC cutting agent products for vaping use.
Also, there are reported cases in people who verifiably never used THC products, who bought THC cartridges at licensed dispensaries, or commercially packaged nicotine liquids.
In some cases, they're finding lipid droplets in immune cells present in the lungs. That can occur in severe inflammation, even without oil exposure. But overall, there's no consistent pattern of diagnosed injury in the current epidemic.
The described conditions and x-ray reports reflect a mix of eosinophilic pneumonia (usually an allergic-type response), chemical pneumonitis (usually a direct toxic injury from strong irritants), lipoid pneumonia (a combination of physical irritation and immune foreign-body response to inhaled oils), and diffuse alveolar hemorrhage (a poorly understood, but often life-threatening disorder that involves immune responses in lung capillaries - sometimes triggered by chemical exposure or infections).
It's kind of a mess for epidemiological tracing.
As the public health authorities are saying, loudly and frequently, lungs are meant for clean air. There are plenty of accepted nicotine and THC vaping additives, heating byproducts, and known trace metal or other contaminants which could cause these responses. Isolated case reports of severe disease have been coming in for years (usually in people with a history of extended, heavy vaping, and sometimes concurrent infections), but no reported direct fatalities.
But the consensus is, as you indicated, that the recent dramatic increase in reported cases and cluster of deaths, are suggestive of unknown contaminants, not a generic issue with vaping. Despite the known toxic components and exposures in nicotine and THC vaping products, there's no obvious culprit for severe pneumonitis from a single exposure in typical use.
[There are certainly potential contaminants that could be responsible. I can think of a scare when cannabis contaminated with the herbicide paraquat hit the streets in the 1970's and 80's. Paraquat is known to produce a similar variety of severe pneumonia symptoms with accidental or intentional poisoning. We had a major review on this episode in my tox class - the literature [PDF warning] said dangerous levels of paraquat were present in street marijuana sampling, but there were no cases of confirmed injury from routine pot smoking, likely because combustion temperatures break it down. Paraquat is still used for agriculture and drug interdiction, though it's banned in the EU. There's increasing demand due to glyphosate-resistant weeds, and paraquat or something like it might be present in resin extracts.]
In any case, vaping, even unflavored liquids, isn't great for long-term health - PG and glycerin form some nasty byproducts when heated, tobacco-derived nicotine can contain cancer-causing nitrosamines. I can't even find good data on all the THC extracts, wax, and shatter products, which are consumed at much higher temperatures than nicotine liquids.
Fixed paraquat PDF link
I linked to it in another thread recently, but the CDC says that there's no single substance that seems to be linked to all the illnesses:
This is targeted at the high level of youth usage of nicotine products, not the separate lung disease concerns (which seem to be related to THC cartridges, not nicotine/tobacco ones):
Yeah, no doubt that's a major issue and I'm glad to see that addressed. Article does also mention they're going after "unauthorized" products, which I took to be in reference to the questionable and illegally sold THC juices that are related to the stories about people getting ill. Although its also worth noting that the CDC recommended people stop vaping entirely as non-THC products couldn't be completely confirmed to be the cause.
Also think this could be a case where the FDA is "quick" to take action in part because vaping concerns are a hot topic right now in the media.
I think you're misinterpreting it. They're not completely banning all flavored products, but they're requiring that you get approval from the FDA ("premarket authorization requirements") to be able to sell a flavored one. So the "unauthorized products" will be flavored ones without FDA approval, not the THC cartridges. That's a completely separate subject.
I honestly think this whole thing really sums up the Trump administration.
Either it's going to get done !!!RIGHT NOW!!! without any prior heads-up or planning or phasing out, because of a kneejerk reaction to a headline, or it doesn't get done at all because ol' Donny's already forgot about it. I think that's why every action this front office has taken has been so chaotic and unorganized, because they don't know if it's still on Trump's mind or if he's already moved on.
With that said, I think this is a great move, and I'm surprised that e-cigs aren't regulated at this level already. I used to drive for uber in a college town and it was shocking and depressing how many college kids didn't understand that vapes and juuls had nicotine in them. I had way too many conversations along the lines of, "This doesn't have nicotine, that's the stuff that goes in cigarettes," "Yeah, and what do you think goes in a juul pod?" "I dunno, tastes good though." >.>
Hate to say it, but the CDC is just following in the footsteps of my state's Democratic Party governor's order. I don't think the p*Resident has anything to do with the decision, and if he does intervene, it will be to Roll Back Regulations That Hurt Our Businesses, or something like that. On the other hand, most e-smoking devices come from China, so there's that potential for trade Winning...