Interesting to see a Knowing Better video here. He made a horribly inaccurate video about Christopher Columbus, which prompted one of my favorite youtubers BadEmpanada to make a well researched...
Interesting to see a Knowing Better video here. He made a horribly inaccurate video about Christopher Columbus, which prompted one of my favorite youtubers BadEmpanada to make a well researched (and long but fascinating) rebuttal video: https://youtu.be/OaJDc85h3ME
After being completely called on his shit by the video above, Knowing Better made a new video that failed to properly explain or apologize for the egregious errors in his original video. This prompted BadEmpanada to make a follow on much shorter video criticizing Knowing Better for basically being intellectually bankrupt.
That’s all I know about Knowing Better but it didn’t seem like it was taken out of context. Knowing Better made a video claiming that a racist genocidal murderer who kidnapped men women and children and started the international slave trade wasn’t such a bad guy after all. After being fully called on his shit in a well researched video that is over an hour long, Knowing Better pretended to respond to the criticisms without really acknowledging how wrong he was.
So yeah. Pretty surprised to see his video here. If BadEmpanada is wrong about Knowing Better and Christopher Columbus I’m interested in hearing those arguments but I was pretty convinced by what BadEmpanada had to say.
For another one of my favorite well researched BadEmpanada videos check out this one on Argentina’s dictatorship.
[note: I am as a Swede basically on the sidelines of the whole Columbus thing - from my memory he was presented in school as a "dude who got money and started the European colonization of the...
[note: I am as a Swede basically on the sidelines of the whole Columbus thing - from my memory he was presented in school as a "dude who got money and started the European colonization of the Americas" and I know the subject is WAY more complex, and currently relevant, elsewhere]
Well I mean.... being wrong once isn't the same as being wrong ALL the time
Also, to be fair, it seems that BadEmpanada's videos also tend to be be slightly oversimplified due to his political standpoint. To be even "fairer"(?) that, to me, is ok since his political bias is clearly displayed on the tin allowing anyone to apply proper source criticism - and the other one seems to be less clear about his political opinions.
Now I am kinda weary of Youtube drama, especially with volatile subjects, since there seems to be no point in which the persons involved can ever back out unless one totally abandons their earlier statements and even the smallest misstep can be constantly re-hashed with no end in sight. No one seems to be able to step down from them easily.
It's tricky too because it is a social media, it thrives on drama and objective reporting is hard no matter what - and adding the Youtube view algorithm and suggestions for higher viewer numbers seems to make it even harder
Well the thing that concerns me is that Columbus seems like a pretty horrific person. I mean in the US we were taught he was a European explorer who founded the new world. But to the indigenous...
Well the thing that concerns me is that Columbus seems like a pretty horrific person. I mean in the US we were taught he was a European explorer who founded the new world. But to the indigenous people of the lands he was a mass murderer and slaver. He showed up and started killing and enslaving people. He rounded them up and forced them to work. Millions of people died. Their homes and culture destroyed.
So if you go on YouTube and make a video that says “Columbus wasn’t such a bad guy”, that’s like a huge error. I watched these BadEmpanada videos a while back but I was shocked at how bad Knowing Better’s representation of the facts seemed to be. It made me feel like he does poor research and might be carrying some racist bias in his thinking.
I really feel like Europe and other conquerors (like America where I live) have done horrific things to native peoples. And we’re still doing it, pushing a culture that minimizes their personhood and prioritizes our interests. Colonization is brutal and inhumane. Attitudes about it shape everything from trade and economics to politics.
It is true that I have never watched a Knowing Better video. It’s possible I was misled by BadEmpanada and Knowing Better was taken out of context. It’s hard for me to listen to a video defending a brutal murderer and slaver, so I did not listen to his video. But I trust BadEmpanada. Maybe Knowing Better has a good track record and some worthwhile ideas, but as someone who was introduced to him in this way, I just can’t care much about anything else he’s thinking.
History as a subject is hard AF though. It always demand oversimplification. and alternative views are on the one hand relevant, on the other really problematic if they are presented as "the truth...
History as a subject is hard AF though. It always demand oversimplification. and alternative views are on the one hand relevant, on the other really problematic if they are presented as "the truth in comparison with that other view".
When I was in school, my age 10-13 US history bit was basically "Columbus a conqueror", "Slavery", "Trail of tears", "Racism", "Operation Paperclip", "Vietnam". Which sounds really progressive now perhaps but is an incredibly oversimplified version told by a teacher who wanted to give an alternative view who like my parents generation here had very much a less than favourable view of the US (to say the least). The fact that she was the ONLY view made it kinda odd and obviously leaves a LOT to be desired as a history lesson.
I mean say that I wanted to say something about Columbus: " a good thing about Columbus was that he was a really good chef and nice to animals" - that makes total sense here and now, with you and me (I mean its not true, it could be, but I was just flinging in an example). It's a sort of "Yeah thats a fun slip of info, didn't know that" because we both have a shared historical understanding of him. If someone then half a year later comes in, reads my comment, it can sound absolutely idiotic and apologetic of the man. History is a set of takes and views that demands a previous set of knowledge from the listener.
As for European colonialism - that was a hell of an era though. I mean say that you summarize European history between 1500eds to 1945(*) as "Colonialism" that is as correct as its incorrect as a summary due to its oversimplification.
Both of them seem to be doing "takes" on history not absolute summaries and both seem to have fun takes on stuff. Both of them seem to make slip-ups presenting the assumed previous knowledge and even though BadEmpanada is fairly clear in his bias (and Knowing Better less so), neither of them present their bias in a proper way. I can easily guess the first ones bias, that's all.
Is Knowing Better trying to mislead people by making a video about "The more fun side of Columbus" or did he make assumptions about the viewers and oversimplications in his takes?
/*) 1945 as an end because that's when it was technically over, not practically over.
EDIT: For clarity. As for conquerors doing horrid things - yup. That's what conquerors do. BUT... and here is the fiddly bit to me with history. It is a bit of a "What have the romans ever done to us?" kind of thing too - which is prime example of this. What if I said like "The European invasion and colonisation of North America brought [insert technical advancement: say "horses" or something]". It's correct. It also completely misses the point. It demands that the listener KNOW that the colonisation also brought slavery, murder och genocide. OR alternatively - I would say "Yes well about conquerors, its like the Hunn invasion of Eastern Europe and the massmurder, genocide and slavery it brought with it in to Europe" as a reply to your comment above. Absolutely and totally true BUT without that previous and shared knowledge ("...that doesn't make European conquest any better") it reads as apologetic or even reformational history.
That's a pretty notable chain and it definitely makes me slow down on his content. That being said, this is definitely not the first knowing better video here.
A video on how the great depression and civil rights movement managed to effectively flip the parties' political positions and for a short period be notably ideologically vague.
A video on how the great depression and civil rights movement managed to effectively flip the parties' political positions and for a short period be notably ideologically vague.
Interesting to see a Knowing Better video here. He made a horribly inaccurate video about Christopher Columbus, which prompted one of my favorite youtubers BadEmpanada to make a well researched (and long but fascinating) rebuttal video:
https://youtu.be/OaJDc85h3ME
After being completely called on his shit by the video above, Knowing Better made a new video that failed to properly explain or apologize for the egregious errors in his original video. This prompted BadEmpanada to make a follow on much shorter video criticizing Knowing Better for basically being intellectually bankrupt.
https://youtu.be/a_-RL4jGpEg
That’s all I know about Knowing Better but it didn’t seem like it was taken out of context. Knowing Better made a video claiming that a racist genocidal murderer who kidnapped men women and children and started the international slave trade wasn’t such a bad guy after all. After being fully called on his shit in a well researched video that is over an hour long, Knowing Better pretended to respond to the criticisms without really acknowledging how wrong he was.
So yeah. Pretty surprised to see his video here. If BadEmpanada is wrong about Knowing Better and Christopher Columbus I’m interested in hearing those arguments but I was pretty convinced by what BadEmpanada had to say.
For another one of my favorite well researched BadEmpanada videos check out this one on Argentina’s dictatorship.
https://youtu.be/8mFeQ6gIfgg
[note: I am as a Swede basically on the sidelines of the whole Columbus thing - from my memory he was presented in school as a "dude who got money and started the European colonization of the Americas" and I know the subject is WAY more complex, and currently relevant, elsewhere]
Well I mean.... being wrong once isn't the same as being wrong ALL the time
Also, to be fair, it seems that BadEmpanada's videos also tend to be be slightly oversimplified due to his political standpoint. To be even "fairer"(?) that, to me, is ok since his political bias is clearly displayed on the tin allowing anyone to apply proper source criticism - and the other one seems to be less clear about his political opinions.
Now I am kinda weary of Youtube drama, especially with volatile subjects, since there seems to be no point in which the persons involved can ever back out unless one totally abandons their earlier statements and even the smallest misstep can be constantly re-hashed with no end in sight. No one seems to be able to step down from them easily.
It's tricky too because it is a social media, it thrives on drama and objective reporting is hard no matter what - and adding the Youtube view algorithm and suggestions for higher viewer numbers seems to make it even harder
Well the thing that concerns me is that Columbus seems like a pretty horrific person. I mean in the US we were taught he was a European explorer who founded the new world. But to the indigenous people of the lands he was a mass murderer and slaver. He showed up and started killing and enslaving people. He rounded them up and forced them to work. Millions of people died. Their homes and culture destroyed.
So if you go on YouTube and make a video that says “Columbus wasn’t such a bad guy”, that’s like a huge error. I watched these BadEmpanada videos a while back but I was shocked at how bad Knowing Better’s representation of the facts seemed to be. It made me feel like he does poor research and might be carrying some racist bias in his thinking.
I really feel like Europe and other conquerors (like America where I live) have done horrific things to native peoples. And we’re still doing it, pushing a culture that minimizes their personhood and prioritizes our interests. Colonization is brutal and inhumane. Attitudes about it shape everything from trade and economics to politics.
It is true that I have never watched a Knowing Better video. It’s possible I was misled by BadEmpanada and Knowing Better was taken out of context. It’s hard for me to listen to a video defending a brutal murderer and slaver, so I did not listen to his video. But I trust BadEmpanada. Maybe Knowing Better has a good track record and some worthwhile ideas, but as someone who was introduced to him in this way, I just can’t care much about anything else he’s thinking.
History as a subject is hard AF though. It always demand oversimplification. and alternative views are on the one hand relevant, on the other really problematic if they are presented as "the truth in comparison with that other view".
When I was in school, my age 10-13 US history bit was basically "Columbus a conqueror", "Slavery", "Trail of tears", "Racism", "Operation Paperclip", "Vietnam". Which sounds really progressive now perhaps but is an incredibly oversimplified version told by a teacher who wanted to give an alternative view who like my parents generation here had very much a less than favourable view of the US (to say the least). The fact that she was the ONLY view made it kinda odd and obviously leaves a LOT to be desired as a history lesson.
I mean say that I wanted to say something about Columbus: " a good thing about Columbus was that he was a really good chef and nice to animals" - that makes total sense here and now, with you and me (I mean its not true, it could be, but I was just flinging in an example). It's a sort of "Yeah thats a fun slip of info, didn't know that" because we both have a shared historical understanding of him. If someone then half a year later comes in, reads my comment, it can sound absolutely idiotic and apologetic of the man. History is a set of takes and views that demands a previous set of knowledge from the listener.
As for European colonialism - that was a hell of an era though. I mean say that you summarize European history between 1500eds to 1945(*) as "Colonialism" that is as correct as its incorrect as a summary due to its oversimplification.
Both of them seem to be doing "takes" on history not absolute summaries and both seem to have fun takes on stuff. Both of them seem to make slip-ups presenting the assumed previous knowledge and even though BadEmpanada is fairly clear in his bias (and Knowing Better less so), neither of them present their bias in a proper way. I can easily guess the first ones bias, that's all.
Is Knowing Better trying to mislead people by making a video about "The more fun side of Columbus" or did he make assumptions about the viewers and oversimplications in his takes?
/*) 1945 as an end because that's when it was technically over, not practically over.
EDIT: For clarity. As for conquerors doing horrid things - yup. That's what conquerors do. BUT... and here is the fiddly bit to me with history. It is a bit of a "What have the romans ever done to us?" kind of thing too - which is prime example of this. What if I said like "The European invasion and colonisation of North America brought [insert technical advancement: say "horses" or something]". It's correct. It also completely misses the point. It demands that the listener KNOW that the colonisation also brought slavery, murder och genocide. OR alternatively - I would say "Yes well about conquerors, its like the Hunn invasion of Eastern Europe and the massmurder, genocide and slavery it brought with it in to Europe" as a reply to your comment above. Absolutely and totally true BUT without that previous and shared knowledge ("...that doesn't make European conquest any better") it reads as apologetic or even reformational history.
That's a pretty notable chain and it definitely makes me slow down on his content. That being said, this is definitely not the first knowing better video here.
Ah I see, just the first to catch my eye.
A video on how the great depression and civil rights movement managed to effectively flip the parties' political positions and for a short period be notably ideologically vague.