He considered himself fiscally conservative before the program, still fiscally conservative as he began to benefit from and improve his life in the program, votes fiscally conservative in the...
He considered himself fiscally conservative before the program, still fiscally conservative as he began to benefit from and improve his life in the program, votes fiscally conservative in the election, and is now upset that a fiscally conservative party does what a fiscally conservative party was always going to do with a ubi program.
I understand the feeling of the rug being pulled from under him and his family; I don't understand happily being part of the machine that pulled the rug.
I'm convinced that a lot of modern media has absolutely fucked us as a society. It's like have a collective case of brain worms - marketing and propaganda have pretty comprehensively convinced...
I'm convinced that a lot of modern media has absolutely fucked us as a society. It's like have a collective case of brain worms - marketing and propaganda have pretty comprehensively convinced enough of us to vote against our self interests that the kind of inequality we face seems like the inevitable outcome.
As shameful as it is, I think the best thing we can do at this stage is foster local community - educating and bringing neighbors together instead of sowing division. It's so easy to be pissed off at people for working against the greater good, but when those people inevitably realize that they've been duped we need to be able to support them and begin to grow again.
I just want to know what it would have taken to get him to realize what that vote meant. He was materially benefiting from that program. He saw the actual good it was doing for himself and his...
I just want to know what it would have taken to get him to realize what that vote meant. He was materially benefiting from that program. He saw the actual good it was doing for himself and his family. He saw the ubi doing exactly the things proponents of the ubi said it was going to do: help him get out of debt, help him take care of his wife and kid, give him the opportunity to improve himself the way he saw fit -- and still.
I know it's well past the point that he can realize the hopes he had with ubi. That destroys me. I can barely imagine how much worse it is for him. I just want to understand why he would side with the wolves -- and wolves who didn't even have the decency of wearing sheep's clothing.
Yeah, based on the interview he had, it sounded like he still had reservations about the UBI program and the ways it could be abused, but he also made it clear that it had been a huge relief for...
Yeah, based on the interview he had, it sounded like he still had reservations about the UBI program and the ways it could be abused, but he also made it clear that it had been a huge relief for him. If the program had continued for the originally planned 3 years, he might have been convinced that the program was a good idea after seeing enough material benefit to himself or his community, and maybe even have reassessed whether he really wanted to vote conservative again in future elections.
Instead, he'll end up more disillusioned with politics because a change in government has forced him to re-plan the next year and a half of his finances again.
He probably doesn't have the education to even understand that he was voting for a party who wants to get rid of the program that's supporting him. I think a major issue in many countries right...
He probably doesn't have the education to even understand that he was voting for a party who wants to get rid of the program that's supporting him.
I think a major issue in many countries right now is that we don't value true education anymore. We teach to the standardized tests. We teach to get people into schools. I can't tell you how much of my own education was just blatant memorization. I wasn't tested on if I understood the concepts let alone taught about politics or other issues much more likely to affect (or effect, in some cases) my life.
However, I also realize that being duped by politics isn't anything new, so I could be wrong about the root of the issue. But I do feel that critical thinking is not valued currently and that's the trap that many of these people fall into. I've seen similar articles about people who voted for trump who are now getting deported, imprisoned, or otherwise treated poorly because they voted for a party that is fulfilling exactly what their campaign promise was.
The problem is, I don't know if the bloke even registered that it would affect his family. There has been a lot of Trumpgret™ down south in which perfectly normal (albeit sometimes hateful) people...
The problem is, I don't know if the bloke even registered that it would affect his family. There has been a lot of Trumpgret™ down south in which perfectly normal (albeit sometimes hateful) people voted for a man who they thought would "trigger libs" or deport immigrants. The problem arises when those same people are forced to look into the abyss and realize that their actions have consequences - unfortunately, too many of them can only see those consequences when they are personally affected.
Empathy is a hell of a drug, and if there's anything in the world that can start to change the tides I think it will be coercing people to just give a shit about the people around them for five minutes a day. It doesn't even have to be altruistic, the benefits of helping those around you have immediate benefits and can help build toward a wider social safety net strengthening the community as a whole.
tl;dr We need to help guide them toward the understanding that life isn't just a zero sum game and we can all "win" and have happy, fulfilling lives.
I've seen a lot of people express this sentiment, or going farther and actually expressing joy at this person's misfortune. I think that misses the point that this person who needs these services...
I've seen a lot of people express this sentiment, or going farther and actually expressing joy at this person's misfortune.
I think that misses the point that this person who needs these services feels as if it is a good idea to make choices that directly do not support his own needs. It's a big fiasco; most people think "I'm a [x party] so I'm voting for [x party]" without really having an understanding of... well, anything.
CBC ran a pretty great little app that let you say what you believed on a number of issues, and then matches you up with the party that you should probably vote for. I went through it with a few people in my family who are died-in-the-wool-"party members". The end result when presented with the fact that they should be supporting a different party is disbelief in the app; "it's [other party] propaganda".
I don't really know where I'm going with this comment other than a meandering statement bemoaning the general stupidity of people.
This administration isn't fiscally conservative. There is nothing fiscally conservative about Doug Ford, that's the problem. He ran without a platform or a policy and won through the sheer inertia...
This administration isn't fiscally conservative. There is nothing fiscally conservative about Doug Ford, that's the problem. He ran without a platform or a policy and won through the sheer inertia of not being the leader of the Liberal Party. He has historically never been for any sort of fiscally responsible platform, ever. Not once. The Ontario Progressive Conservatives didn't win because of Doug Ford leading the party, they won because they weren't Kathleen Wynne and the Liberal Party.
In Ontario politics, there's a lot of people who simply will not vote for the NDP because of the "Rae days", a period of time in the early 90's where Ontario was in a bad economic state that was caused by external factors. It's sheer stupidity on their parts but that is unfortunately the situation.
So the choice is between the reigning party, which people are generally fatigued over, and the other party which was being helmed by someone who wasn't even the preferred choice for most of the party, but was boosted by the insane anti-sex ed crowd. His first few acts as Premier have been Trump-like in many ways, including a vindictive legislation against Toronto, the city which refused to make him mayor and where he served only one crappy term as a councillor because everyone hates the Ford family. Rob Ford was an absolute joke, and Doug Ford is a more power hungry and conniving version of his younger brother.
Recently, they even announced plans to create their own state-run media service using taxpayer money. That's not fiscally conservative at all.
The Minister behind this is also a character. She was always a bad MPP, who woulds it at the back of the Chamber and cat-call all day. When she introduced herself to her new ministry, it was hilariously vapid—talking about how she was out at drinks with her friend when she found out she would be the minister of this and was all like "nuh uh", but her friend was all like "yuh huh!". I'm not exaggerating, this was the tone of the speech she gave to the (former) Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration. Now she's going around claiming "fake news" at her own statements to the media! Jeez, I wonder why this party feels compelled to make their own state-run propaganda department.
This UBI experiment was meant to get data to see how viable it really was. It was only supposed to go until 2020 and then influence and inform all policy around UBI to come after it. Now we won't know how effective it is. And you know what? The guy behind this plan was a federal Conservative party senator! He was a true fiscal conservative and this UBI pilot was his brainchild!
This is not a fiscally conservative government. This is a shallow, vindictive high school class that got voted into power.
Edit: Something I forgot to mention is that this Ford administration claims that the data showed that this UBI pilot was too expensive, which is why they had to break their campaign promise of keeping it. This is a bold faced lie. No data has come in yet that indicates how expensive it actually was.
America in microcosm? Replace UBI with ACA and the parallels are almost uncanny. Thanks for the correction and insight.
So the choice is between the reigning party, which people are generally fatigued over, and the other party which was being helmed by someone who wasn't even the preferred choice for most of the party, but was boosted by the insane anti-sex ed crowd.
The guy behind this plan was a federal Conservative party senator! He was a true fiscal conservative and this UBI pilot was his brainchild!
This is not a fiscally conservative government. This is a shallow, vindictive high school class that got voted into power.
America in microcosm?
Replace UBI with ACA and the parallels are almost uncanny.
I can sort of see how this happens. As a reasonable person, he votes for what he believes is a reasonable government. He probably thinks UBI is reasonable, and just never equated it to something...
I can sort of see how this happens. As a reasonable person, he votes for what he believes is a reasonable government. He probably thinks UBI is reasonable, and just never equated it to something the conservative party would kill, especially because in Canada it is sold as a fiscally logical thing to have (reduces admin costs, improves efficiency, and such).
I don't expect it to happen, but I hope they release information about the results of the program so far. So far every trial program of Ubi (see mincome) had positive results.
I don't expect it to happen, but I hope they release information about the results of the program so far. So far every trial program of Ubi (see mincome) had positive results.
For more information about the program cuts itself: Reevely: Ontario government cuts welfare hike in half, ends basic-income trial
He considered himself fiscally conservative before the program, still fiscally conservative as he began to benefit from and improve his life in the program, votes fiscally conservative in the election, and is now upset that a fiscally conservative party does what a fiscally conservative party was always going to do with a ubi program.
I understand the feeling of the rug being pulled from under him and his family; I don't understand happily being part of the machine that pulled the rug.
I'm convinced that a lot of modern media has absolutely fucked us as a society. It's like have a collective case of brain worms - marketing and propaganda have pretty comprehensively convinced enough of us to vote against our self interests that the kind of inequality we face seems like the inevitable outcome.
As shameful as it is, I think the best thing we can do at this stage is foster local community - educating and bringing neighbors together instead of sowing division. It's so easy to be pissed off at people for working against the greater good, but when those people inevitably realize that they've been duped we need to be able to support them and begin to grow again.
I just want to know what it would have taken to get him to realize what that vote meant. He was materially benefiting from that program. He saw the actual good it was doing for himself and his family. He saw the ubi doing exactly the things proponents of the ubi said it was going to do: help him get out of debt, help him take care of his wife and kid, give him the opportunity to improve himself the way he saw fit -- and still.
I know it's well past the point that he can realize the hopes he had with ubi. That destroys me. I can barely imagine how much worse it is for him. I just want to understand why he would side with the wolves -- and wolves who didn't even have the decency of wearing sheep's clothing.
Yeah, based on the interview he had, it sounded like he still had reservations about the UBI program and the ways it could be abused, but he also made it clear that it had been a huge relief for him. If the program had continued for the originally planned 3 years, he might have been convinced that the program was a good idea after seeing enough material benefit to himself or his community, and maybe even have reassessed whether he really wanted to vote conservative again in future elections.
Instead, he'll end up more disillusioned with politics because a change in government has forced him to re-plan the next year and a half of his finances again.
He probably doesn't have the education to even understand that he was voting for a party who wants to get rid of the program that's supporting him.
I think a major issue in many countries right now is that we don't value true education anymore. We teach to the standardized tests. We teach to get people into schools. I can't tell you how much of my own education was just blatant memorization. I wasn't tested on if I understood the concepts let alone taught about politics or other issues much more likely to affect (or effect, in some cases) my life.
However, I also realize that being duped by politics isn't anything new, so I could be wrong about the root of the issue. But I do feel that critical thinking is not valued currently and that's the trap that many of these people fall into. I've seen similar articles about people who voted for trump who are now getting deported, imprisoned, or otherwise treated poorly because they voted for a party that is fulfilling exactly what their campaign promise was.
The problem is, I don't know if the bloke even registered that it would affect his family. There has been a lot of Trumpgret™ down south in which perfectly normal (albeit sometimes hateful) people voted for a man who they thought would "trigger libs" or deport immigrants. The problem arises when those same people are forced to look into the abyss and realize that their actions have consequences - unfortunately, too many of them can only see those consequences when they are personally affected.
Empathy is a hell of a drug, and if there's anything in the world that can start to change the tides I think it will be coercing people to just give a shit about the people around them for five minutes a day. It doesn't even have to be altruistic, the benefits of helping those around you have immediate benefits and can help build toward a wider social safety net strengthening the community as a whole.
tl;dr We need to help guide them toward the understanding that life isn't just a zero sum game and we can all "win" and have happy, fulfilling lives.
I've seen a lot of people express this sentiment, or going farther and actually expressing joy at this person's misfortune.
I think that misses the point that this person who needs these services feels as if it is a good idea to make choices that directly do not support his own needs. It's a big fiasco; most people think "I'm a [x party] so I'm voting for [x party]" without really having an understanding of... well, anything.
CBC ran a pretty great little app that let you say what you believed on a number of issues, and then matches you up with the party that you should probably vote for. I went through it with a few people in my family who are died-in-the-wool-"party members". The end result when presented with the fact that they should be supporting a different party is disbelief in the app; "it's [other party] propaganda".
I don't really know where I'm going with this comment other than a meandering statement bemoaning the general stupidity of people.
Picking a political party is like picking a sports team -- except one team wants to end poverty by destroying the poor.
This administration isn't fiscally conservative. There is nothing fiscally conservative about Doug Ford, that's the problem. He ran without a platform or a policy and won through the sheer inertia of not being the leader of the Liberal Party. He has historically never been for any sort of fiscally responsible platform, ever. Not once. The Ontario Progressive Conservatives didn't win because of Doug Ford leading the party, they won because they weren't Kathleen Wynne and the Liberal Party.
In Ontario politics, there's a lot of people who simply will not vote for the NDP because of the "Rae days", a period of time in the early 90's where Ontario was in a bad economic state that was caused by external factors. It's sheer stupidity on their parts but that is unfortunately the situation.
So the choice is between the reigning party, which people are generally fatigued over, and the other party which was being helmed by someone who wasn't even the preferred choice for most of the party, but was boosted by the insane anti-sex ed crowd. His first few acts as Premier have been Trump-like in many ways, including a vindictive legislation against Toronto, the city which refused to make him mayor and where he served only one crappy term as a councillor because everyone hates the Ford family. Rob Ford was an absolute joke, and Doug Ford is a more power hungry and conniving version of his younger brother.
Recently, they even announced plans to create their own state-run media service using taxpayer money. That's not fiscally conservative at all.
The Minister behind this is also a character. She was always a bad MPP, who woulds it at the back of the Chamber and cat-call all day. When she introduced herself to her new ministry, it was hilariously vapid—talking about how she was out at drinks with her friend when she found out she would be the minister of this and was all like "nuh uh", but her friend was all like "yuh huh!". I'm not exaggerating, this was the tone of the speech she gave to the (former) Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration. Now she's going around claiming "fake news" at her own statements to the media! Jeez, I wonder why this party feels compelled to make their own state-run propaganda department.
This UBI experiment was meant to get data to see how viable it really was. It was only supposed to go until 2020 and then influence and inform all policy around UBI to come after it. Now we won't know how effective it is. And you know what? The guy behind this plan was a federal Conservative party senator! He was a true fiscal conservative and this UBI pilot was his brainchild!
This is not a fiscally conservative government. This is a shallow, vindictive high school class that got voted into power.
Edit: Something I forgot to mention is that this Ford administration claims that the data showed that this UBI pilot was too expensive, which is why they had to break their campaign promise of keeping it. This is a bold faced lie. No data has come in yet that indicates how expensive it actually was.
America in microcosm?
Replace UBI with ACA and the parallels are almost uncanny.
Thanks for the correction and insight.
I can sort of see how this happens. As a reasonable person, he votes for what he believes is a reasonable government. He probably thinks UBI is reasonable, and just never equated it to something the conservative party would kill, especially because in Canada it is sold as a fiscally logical thing to have (reduces admin costs, improves efficiency, and such).
Makes me want to leave Canada and move to the U.S. Wait. I am in the U.S. Well, crap.
I don't expect it to happen, but I hope they release information about the results of the program so far. So far every trial program of Ubi (see mincome) had positive results.
I would be curious too, but I don't think they have much info yet. The program barely started.