67 votes

US Supreme Court rejects bid to give lawmakers unchecked power over elections

11 comments

  1. tigerhai
    Link
    This is the outcome of the NC case test of the “independent legislature theory.” The 6-3 opinion was penned by Roberts, with Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch dissenting.

    This is the outcome of the NC case test of the “independent legislature theory.” The 6-3 opinion was penned by Roberts, with Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch dissenting.

    23 votes
  2. [8]
    IJustMadeThis
    Link
    It appears the dissents were because they thought the case should have been dismissed. Does that mean it should never have gotten to the Supreme Court, or that the Supreme Court shouldn’t have...

    It appears the dissents were because they thought the case should have been dismissed. Does that mean it should never have gotten to the Supreme Court, or that the Supreme Court shouldn’t have heard it and let the lower court ruling stand?

    A ruling seems to make sense to avoid other similar cases in the future, but I don’t know if that’s accurate.

    The legislators had asked the justices to embrace a once-marginal legal theory, called the "independent state legislature" doctrine, that would remove any role of state courts and state constitutions in regulating federal elections. The theory is based in part on the U.S. Constitution's statement that the "times, places and manner" of federal elections "shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof."

    "The Elections Clause does not insulate state legislatures from the ordinary exercise of state judicial review," Roberts wrote of that constitutional provision.

    Roberts was joined by fellow conservative Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett as well as the court's three liberal members. Conservative Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch dissented, saying the case should have been dismissed.

    14 votes
    1. [7]
      TreeFiddyFiddy
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I actually have to side with the dissenters in this case, this has opened up federal legal review of state election laws. As far as I understand states are constitutionally supposed to be...

      I actually have to side with the dissenters in this case, this has opened up federal legal review of state election laws. As far as I understand states are constitutionally supposed to be independent of Federal oversight which functions as another separation of powers. The suit should have been dismissed to both show that the theory holds no legal standing, allowing state judiciaries to police the legislatures, while not bringing state run elections into federal purview.

      Edit: I am speaking specifically within the context of the ruling about federal judicial oversight of state elections, which has never been codified in case law before. I am not speaking about States Rights theories, or legislated federal oversight of states

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. TreeFiddyFiddy
          Link Parent
          Everything you have cited is legislative, I'm speaking particularly about judicial oversight. This explicitly opens the door to federal election losers to sue at the federal level for cause based...

          Everything you have cited is legislative, I'm speaking particularly about judicial oversight. This explicitly opens the door to federal election losers to sue at the federal level for cause based on state legislature misconduct or based on state judicial rulings regarding elections (e.g. absentee ballot deadlines). Trust that we are going to see federal lawsuits based this new precedent in future elections

          In a sense, opponents of independent legislature theory have won the battle but have opened up many new frontlines in the war. And your analysis is wrong if you believe that federal courts always had domain in this regard, they have not but the ruling by the Supreme Court now sets that precedent.

          Again, it would have been better to dismiss the suit. It still denies the ISL theorists claims without affirming federal court's right to interfere between the state judicial review process. It closes the door on ISL without opening the door to the crazy lawsuits we are going to be seeing now

          1 vote
      2. [5]
        Hobbykitjr
        Link Parent
        As i understand, we had a civil war about that. Southern states wanted slaves. theres limits.

        as I understand states are constitutionally supposed to be independent of Federal oversight which functions as another separation of powers

        As i understand, we had a civil war about that. Southern states wanted slaves. theres limits.

        1. [4]
          TreeFiddyFiddy
          Link Parent
          That was admittedly poorly formulated, I am speaking to the subject of the article which is specifically Federal Judicial oversight of the state election process for federal elections

          That was admittedly poorly formulated, I am speaking to the subject of the article which is specifically Federal Judicial oversight of the state election process for federal elections

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            Hobbykitjr
            Link Parent
            within reason still. if a state wanted to say they weren't counting black votes again.. that too would be unconstitutional

            within reason still.

            if a state wanted to say they weren't counting black votes again.. that too would be unconstitutional

            1. [2]
              TreeFiddyFiddy
              Link Parent
              That's already been legislated and would be taken to court at the Federal level as a conflict between State and Federal legislatures. The scope recently opened up by the Supreme Court is to now...

              That's already been legislated and would be taken to court at the Federal level as a conflict between State and Federal legislatures. The scope recently opened up by the Supreme Court is to now allow lawsuits at the federal level open to "conflicts" between federal courts and State legislatures where election laws have been adjudicated on the state level. What you and I are talking about are two very different things

              1 vote
              1. Hobbykitjr
                Link Parent
                ..based on the 15th amendment. Judges were forcing a redraw of maps based on the 15th amendment (They were gerrymandering out based on race)...

                That's already been legislated and would be taken to court at the Federal level as a conflict between State and Federal legislatures.

                ..based on the 15th amendment.

                Judges were forcing a redraw of maps based on the 15th amendment (They were gerrymandering out based on race)
                https://news.wjct.org/state-news/2023-05-23/federal-judge-throws-out-miami-district-map-over-allegations-of-racial-gerrymandering
                https://rollcall.com/2023/01/06/judges-order-south-carolina-to-redraw-congressional-map/

                Supreme court ruled previously, preventing the stopping of generic gerrymandering (which is bullshit, but we need a new law to stop it)

                Now the GOP is getting in trouble for gerrymandering because of Race, so they were asking the supreme court to stop that too

                arising from a legal fight over their map of North Carolina's 14 U.S. House of Representatives districts. The state's top court last year blocked the map as unlawfully biased against Democratic voters

                Roberts: The Elections Clause does not insulate state legislatures from the ordinary exercise of state judicial review

                so the GOP was asking to even limit the states own power, in oversight of its federal elections, based on state law

  3. [2]
    Raylamay
    Link
    I’m glad they got this one right, because the other way could have been very bad.

    I’m glad they got this one right, because the other way could have been very bad.

    13 votes
    1. vord
      Link Parent
      I mean, this seems so fundementally open/shut that those dissenters should probably be straight-up removed from duties.

      I mean, this seems so fundementally open/shut that those dissenters should probably be straight-up removed from duties.

      16 votes
  4. Comment removed by site admin
    Link