8 votes

Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of October 23

This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.

This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.

20 comments

  1. [7]
    nukeman
    Link
    Breaking: Rep. Mike Johnson is the new Speaker of the House I’m actually rather surprised. He’s firmly right-wing, strongly supportive of Trump, and an election-denialist. He also voted against...

    Breaking: Rep. Mike Johnson is the new Speaker of the House

    I’m actually rather surprised. He’s firmly right-wing, strongly supportive of Trump, and an election-denialist. He also voted against the CR. I wonder what the party did to get the remaining members back in line (possibly threatening primary challenges)?

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. st3ph3n
        Link Parent
        They all voted for this guy. There are no moderate republicans any more.

        They all voted for this guy. There are no moderate republicans any more.

        3 votes
    2. [5]
      RobotOverlord525
      Link Parent
      Yeah, the whole thing is rather ridiculous. Maybe he's better than Jim Jordan, though? Honestly, I'm rather disgusted with the process. In fact, I emailed my (Democratic) representative about it...

      Yeah, the whole thing is rather ridiculous. Maybe he's better than Jim Jordan, though?

      Honestly, I'm rather disgusted with the process. In fact, I emailed my (Democratic) representative about it just a little bit ago:

      Representative Mike Johnson becoming the Speaker of the House is a very disappointing outcome to the circus the House Republicans have been running these past few weeks. However, I think a share of the blame for allowing this election-denying far-right lunatic to become Speaker falls on the shoulders of the Democrats. Instead of working with moderate Republicans to try to find someone less-crazy that all of you could work with, you played politics and uselessly kept party line-voting for Representative Hakeem Jeffries. I don't know what the endgame of that was ever supposed to be other than Democrats patting themselves on the back for their ideological purity. I understand that there are times when compromising with the Republicans is not desirable. But when they are as fractured as they are, allowing the far-right to dictate the politics of the entire House of Representatives instead of using this as an opportunity to form a temporary sort of coalition with more moderate Republicans is a profoundly wasted opportunity. Democrats of the House have now collectively empowered Mike Johnson and added credibility to his appalling positions and baseless accusations regarding the 2020 election. This outcome was avoidable and Democrats of the House should be ashamed of themselves for letting this happen.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        shusaku
        Link Parent
        It’s an interesting discussion. If your rep writes back it could be interesting to hear their response. Writing on Nate Silver’s blog, Matt Glassman made a convincing counter argument:...

        It’s an interesting discussion. If your rep writes back it could be interesting to hear their response. Writing on Nate Silver’s blog, Matt Glassman made a convincing counter argument:

        https://www.natesilver.net/p/the-game-theory-of-the-republican

        This is why it never made any sense for McCarthy to seek Democratic votes to bail him out when his partisan procedural coalition was failing. If Democrats had helped McCarthy win the Speakership in January—perhaps by voting present, as many observers suggested they could do in exchange for some goodies—it might have won him the office, but it would have left him in the exact same bind on the very next vote (the vote on the rules package). Unless he was willing to create a permanent procedural majority coalition with the Democrats, there was no point in getting their help that one time. His only choice was to try to make peace with the GOP rebels. Ditto on the resolution to vacate the Speakership.

        To translate this for your suggestion, if the Democrats helped elect a speaker, the guy they picked would be screwed. He’d have never built up the credibility with his caucus needed to do business: those opposing him could just counter every subsequent vote. And they’d easily be able to do it while labeling the speaker a democrat plant

        10 votes
        1. RobotOverlord525
          Link Parent
          Yeah, it's an interesting perspective to be sure. I actually read the same blog post yesterday, after I already sent my email to my Representative. But the premise of the argument is that it's...

          Yeah, it's an interesting perspective to be sure. I actually read the same blog post yesterday, after I already sent my email to my Representative.

          But the premise of the argument is that it's impossible to do bipartisan legislation. Although it looks like we only have two political parties in the United States, as others on Tildes lately have pointed out, that's a bit of a mirage. Look no further than the animosity between the House Freedom Caucus and the Problem Solvers Caucus or, hell, the entire rest of the Republican Party. If a Speaker were selected from the more centrist caucuses of both parties, that would be their procedural coalition. I know that is anathema in American politics, but when you have the House as divided as it is and essentially held hostage by far-right radicals, what's the alternative? Appeasing the House Freedom Caucus on everything? Certainly, in the end, the Speakership became such an exercise in appeasing them. But where does that end?

          I have to wonder, if you put the entire list of potential candidates for Speaker on a secret ballot of ranked-preference voting, who would really be elected speaker? Hell, maybe it doesn't even need to be secret. The Democrats could all mark Hakeem Jeffries as their #1 preference. They could present that to their constituents and perhaps that would appease the "no compromises, ever" faction of voters on the left. But maybe, somewhere further down the list, there is a Republican who actually has a chance of gaining a majority of votes from more centrist members of the House. Maybe someone who, like Tom Emmer, Trump and his followers hate. When a potential Speaker is referred to as a RINO by Trump, that sounds like a pretty resounding endorsement to me.

          If politics is the art of making sure everyone leaves the table equally dissatisfied, stubbornly refusing to work with people you disagree with is a losing game. At least if you want to govern. If you just want to win political points, that blog is full of examples of how that philosophy can be great for radicals like the House Freedom Caucus. Given the climate of the House right now, a good Speaker would probably have to be someone who is equally undesirable to, say, AOC as Matt Gaetz.

          Having said all of that, I'm under no illusions as to how politics in America works. I certainly can't imagine voting for a Republican short of the only Democratic option being Joseph Stalin reincarnated. But I can't help but see the bigger animosity between Republicans in the House as an opportunity to try to moderate the influence of the fascistic wing of the Republican Party. They're the real threat right now.

          2 votes
      2. [2]
        tealblue
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think Jim Jordan would've been worse. Johnson seems more put together and level-headed, putting aside his hard-right views. That might be better for generally turning down the heat in in the House.

        I think Jim Jordan would've been worse. Johnson seems more put together and level-headed, putting aside his hard-right views. That might be better for generally turning down the heat in in the House.

        1 vote
        1. triadderall_triangle
          Link Parent
          People need to be a bit more pragmatic, particularly on that side. Get the work done, THEN worry about your niceties/nonsense.

          People need to be a bit more pragmatic, particularly on that side. Get the work done, THEN worry about your niceties/nonsense.

  2. [7]
    psi
    Link
    "Jenna Ellis, former Trump lawyer, pleads guilty in Georgia election case." The New York Times.
    5 votes
    1. [6]
      psi
      Link Parent
      Also, some relevant commentary from a few days ago. This article refers to Sidney Powell, but of course it applies equally well to Chesebro and Ellis. "Jan. 6 defense lawyers ‘gobsmacked’ by Trump...

      Also, some relevant commentary from a few days ago. This article refers to Sidney Powell, but of course it applies equally well to Chesebro and Ellis.

      Attorneys for several Jan. 6 defendants told POLITICO that it seemed incongruous for foot soldiers to face steep penalties — often including jail time — while Powell, an architect of the effort to overturn the election, was permitted to negotiate a misdemeanor plea deal.

      “This is sick and scandalous,” said Carmen Hernandez, a defense attorney whose former clients include Philadelphia Proud Boy Zachary Rehl. “There are J6 defendants with no priors who’ve served jail time. … It’s obscene given that she was a prominent attorney and was one of the leading and loudest of the ‘stolen election’ BS.”

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        We've always treated "white collar" crime different than violent or property crime. I think there are excellent arguments why that should go otherwise - wage theft, fraud, etc is much more...

        We've always treated "white collar" crime different than violent or property crime. I think there are excellent arguments why that should go otherwise - wage theft, fraud, etc is much more impactful to another person than theft at a store.

        And the defense attorneys are defending their clients - as they should - but IDK maybe don't break into the Capital as part of a mob trying to overturn election results if you don't want to do jail.

        A more perfect justice system would handle all this differently but I think they know very well why these lawyers are being flipped by being offered these deals.

        10 votes
        1. [3]
          psi
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Yes, you could analyze the difference as a white vs blue collar issue, but you could also consider it the difference between pleading guilty versus being found guilty. In a "perfect world",...

          Yes, you could analyze the difference as a white vs blue collar issue, but you could also consider it the difference between pleading guilty versus being found guilty. In a "perfect world", perhaps you wouldn't have plea deals at all -- after all, if someone really did commit several felonies (as was the case with Sidney Powell), is it truly just to forgive those felonies merely for the convenience of avoiding a criminal trial? And that's to say nothing of innocent people who plead guilty due to their inability to make bail. But from a practical perspective, eliminating plea deals is a non-starter: there simply aren't enough judges to try ever case.

          As for these particular defendants, it does feel a bit unfair that the architects of the big lie are receiving such light sentences despite being the ones who engendered the conditions that led directly to the attempted insurrection on January 6. But honestly, like you, my sympathy is also blunted: the ones who received prison sentences (as compared to merely receiving probation) are the ones who trespassed into the Capital building. And, for the most part, those who received relatively long sentences (~5+ years) also committed acts of violence (attacking officers).

          5 votes
          1. [2]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Yeah look I'm a big "overhaul this whole system because it's broken" due to my professional experience with the legal system. And yeah it'll be bullshit that the "foot soldiers" got more time than...

            Yeah look I'm a big "overhaul this whole system because it's broken" due to my professional experience with the legal system. And yeah it'll be bullshit that the "foot soldiers" got more time than the architects.

            But also flipping the small fish to get to your big fish, even if this is "small" in a more oceanic sense, is expected. The "Jan 6 defendants" didn't have anything worth flipping them for. If anything prosecuting them without Trump coming to their aid may be the best thing for some of them in the de-brainwashing process. (Not all but some)

            But yeah, in a perfect world I'd have sent few of them to prison, and many more of the big fish would be stripped of power, money and status. But here we are.

            6 votes
            1. triadderall_triangle
              Link Parent
              I feel like it may be important for some folks to experience the direct, unmediated reality of how plush the system is on those with money/connections/fame a d be able to directly compare that...

              I feel like it may be important for some folks to experience the direct, unmediated reality of how plush the system is on those with money/connections/fame a d be able to directly compare that with the henchmen-treatment they have and will continue to experienxe.

      2. triadderall_triangle
        Link Parent
        I always seem to find myself agreeing with defense attorneys. They know shit sometimes and its a delicate line to walk

        I always seem to find myself agreeing with defense attorneys. They know shit sometimes and its a delicate line to walk

        1 vote
  3. [5]
    gpl
    Link
    Tom Emmer is the new Republican speaker nominee-du-jour. The same split between the Freedom Caucus wing of the party and the establishment, which plagued both Scalise and Jordan, remains, so I...

    Tom Emmer is the new Republican speaker nominee-du-jour. The same split between the Freedom Caucus wing of the party and the establishment, which plagued both Scalise and Jordan, remains, so I don't see how his candidacy has any more hope than theirs.

    4 votes
    1. [4]
      NoblePath
      Link Parent
      He’s already dropped out. Smh.

      He’s already dropped out. Smh.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        gpl
        Link Parent
        I guess I should have said d'heure instead of du jour. What a mess, when there is a looming shutdown and multiple international crises. The sad thing is I honestly don't even know if this will...

        I guess I should have said d'heure instead of du jour. What a mess, when there is a looming shutdown and multiple international crises. The sad thing is I honestly don't even know if this will matter at the polls.

        4 votes
        1. MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          Polling suggests that congressional Republicans as a whole are underwater with Republican likely voters, which is not the normal state of affairs. Whether that turns into anything is another...

          Polling suggests that congressional Republicans as a whole are underwater with Republican likely voters, which is not the normal state of affairs. Whether that turns into anything is another question, but implies an overall vulnerability to primary challenges.

          2 votes
      2. st3ph3n
        Link Parent
        What a fucking clown show.

        What a fucking clown show.

        7 votes
  4. DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    Trump Told to Pay $10,000 in New Punishment for Breaking Gag Order I must admit, I laughed at the judge's quote. But this does feel like consequences are starting to happen here.

    Trump Told to Pay $10,000 in New Punishment for Breaking Gag Order

    He left the stand after about three minutes and Justice Engoron made his pronouncement almost immediately afterward.

    “I find that the witness is not credible,” he said, and levied the fine as Mr. Trump stared blankly ahead.

    I must admit, I laughed at the judge's quote. But this does feel like consequences are starting to happen here.

    4 votes