Two days until I have to vote. Won't be PVV because fucking hell why would you screw yourself so much. I'm dreading the results. We've had over a decade of "liberalism" in the form of the...
Two days until I have to vote. Won't be PVV because fucking hell why would you screw yourself so much.
I'm dreading the results.
We've had over a decade of "liberalism" in the form of the neoliberal VVD that went nowhere, and now we're looking at an even further right pull. After regional/provincial elections were taken by storm by the BBB (farmers party) this is just a great way to cap off a shitty election cycle.
Only thing we can hope for is that nobody wants to work with the PVV, as has been historically the case. Well once, but that collapsed quickly.
It's not even that. I really, really don't understand the motivations of my fellow voters. For those who are not aware, the last 13 years the largest party was the neoliberal VVD, with Mark Rutte...
We've had over a decade of "liberalism" in the form of the neoliberal VVD that went nowhere, and now we're looking at an even further right pull.
It's not even that. I really, really don't understand the motivations of my fellow voters.
For those who are not aware, the last 13 years the largest party was the neoliberal VVD, with Mark Rutte as prime minister. With one exception, he consistently ruled together with the CDA (christen democrats), one of the other major parties. During this long streak of Rutte a lot of things went wrong and everyone was getting really tired of him. One of the few things that unified the country was the common sigh of relief when he finally decided to step down.
In the CDA things went not very smooth in the past few years. After some internal struggles one of their members of parliament, Pieter Omtzigt, decided to step out and form his own party, the NSC. Omtzigt is a very exceptional man in politics, because he is one that actually does the work he is supposed to do. This makes him kind of saint that can do no wrong in the public's eye. However, if you look what his plans and opinions boil down to more carefully, you'll see that it is mostly the same as those of the party he left. (Which makes sense.)
So. The people were really sick of the VVD and the CDA and the complaints were endless. And now among the highest polling parties are... the VVD (but with a new face) and the NSC (which is actually the CDA with a new face). Somehow people believe that this will change everything.
Edit: Welp, I guess they actually choose something else this time.
Australia went to the left last election, and UK is set to swing hard left next year. Poland went back left too. Incumbent governments in general are suffering. There's a cost of living crisis...
Australia went to the left last election, and UK is set to swing hard left next year. Poland went back left too.
Incumbent governments in general are suffering. There's a cost of living crisis everywhere, and people usually blame their own governments.
I wouldn't say Labour under Keir Starmer are hard left, centre to centre-left more likely. Unless you meant how it's likely to be a Tory wipeout with the way the polls are going and we're likely...
I wouldn't say Labour under Keir Starmer are hard left, centre to centre-left more likely.
Unless you meant how it's likely to be a Tory wipeout with the way the polls are going and we're likely to see Labour holding 75%+ of the seats in parliament with the Tories essentially having no floor as to how low the number of seats they'll hold can go.
That poll putting them in 4th place the other day was wild.
Sorry, I'm not saying Starmer is hard left. I'm saying the UK is going to take a hard turn to the left, from the rightwing Tories to the centre-left Labour. Like you say, if the polls hold for...
Sorry, I'm not saying Starmer is hard left. I'm saying the UK is going to take a hard turn to the left, from the rightwing Tories to the centre-left Labour. Like you say, if the polls hold for next year, the Tories are going to get slaughtered. Blaming the appalling state of affairs on the last Labour government seems to have finally run of out of juice.
It's unbelievable how long that worked for as well, it wouldn't surprise me if it was still working in an alternate universe where Covid hadn't happened, that seems to have signalled a shift in...
It's unbelievable how long that worked for as well, it wouldn't surprise me if it was still working in an alternate universe where Covid hadn't happened, that seems to have signalled a shift in the zeitgeist.
That stupid letter left by Liam Byrne as a joke in 2010 though saying there was no money left gave the Tories all the ammunition they needed.
It really is incredible that they were able to blame Labour for the economy after being in power for over a decade. Now just imagine if Ed had eaten that sandwich right. Yes, I'm still bitter.
It really is incredible that they were able to blame Labour for the economy after being in power for over a decade.
Now just imagine if Ed had eaten that sandwich right. Yes, I'm still bitter.
Poland went from conservative populist right to conservative neoliberal right. There's social liberal element to the coalition but it has no say in anything important (joining at those terms...
Poland went from conservative populist right to conservative neoliberal right. There's social liberal element to the coalition but it has no say in anything important (joining at those terms confused many left voters).
They're different in rhetoric and image but the main difference is in friendliness towards EU. They're definitely not left on the economic axis. In terms of civil rights, Civic Coalition is...
They're different in rhetoric and image but the main difference is in friendliness towards EU.
They're definitely not left on the economic axis. In terms of civil rights, Civic Coalition is declaratively pro equal rights for women and lgbt people. Ultimately they have so many conservative members that new government will consists almost entirely of men. Promised abortion rights were swept away immediately after elections, the way it goes now we might change one of the harshest laws in the world to the harshest in Europe. Even civil unions that all upcoming coalition members are for (Trzecia Droga, KO, Lewica) were not put in their formal coalition agreement because minor coalition member protested and it was apparently not important enough to fight for. They've been behaving the same during their 8 year rule that ended 8 years ago.
In my book their actions put them firmly in the right, centre-right if we're generous.
Denmark is remarkably stable, with barely any changes in the last year. The leading party of the coalition (Social Democrats, centre-left but more centre than left, with an immigration policy...
Denmark is remarkably stable, with barely any changes in the last year. The leading party of the coalition (Social Democrats, centre-left but more centre than left, with an immigration policy similar to right wing parties) has a small plurality of 20-25% in recent polls and most of votes they lost since the election went to a left-wing opposition party.
As someone on the other side of the pond, do you have a sense of why the outcomes are different? I’m considering moving to Belgium some time in the near future for a change of pace (have friends...
As someone on the other side of the pond, do you have a sense of why the outcomes are different?
I’m considering moving to Belgium some time in the near future for a change of pace (have friends who live there) but I’m worried the tide of far right bullshit will spill over there. It’s hard sometimes to understand the energy on the ground.
Not sure about the Belgian situation and even about Denmark my view might be different from most, as I moved here a few years ago from another European country that is in much worse shape. If I...
Not sure about the Belgian situation and even about Denmark my view might be different from most, as I moved here a few years ago from another European country that is in much worse shape. If I tried to sum it up quickly, I'd say that it comes down to how much more difficult it is for extremism to take hold when everything is, generally speaking, functional. It's remarkable how easy it is to ignore politics when wages are solid, healthcare is public and accessible, education is free and even subsidised for students, housing is reasonable, unemployment is low, and so is inflation. It's not paradise, but any mistakes politicians make, any global or regional crises that occur are far less likely to strike discontent when you can just get on with your life as they happen.
As far as I can tell from the article it’s the same song and dance it’s been for a little while - anti-immigrant sentiment in Flanders, and the far-right party, who commands a plurality (but not...
As far as I can tell from the article it’s the same song and dance it’s been for a little while - anti-immigrant sentiment in Flanders, and the far-right party, who commands a plurality (but not majority) hoping to leverage that into breaking off from Brussels & Walloon.
My friend lives in Brussels and that is my most probable destination. Even though he’s native Dutch speaking he has a dim opinion of Flanders for, well…basically the exact reasons listed in that article.
Maybe this is me being a dumb American, but the possible breakup of Belgium doesn’t seem as bad as the existential threats to the US I see on the horizon for a few reasons:
The regions of Belgium are already very autonomous
They’ll maintain many forms of economic and political relationships via the EU.
Way less guns, meaning way less possibility of violent unrest (which seems to be the road the US is headed on).
I am keenly aware that every country has its problems. But as an American in 2023 the grass certainly does seem greener elsewhere.
If any Belgians have any insight or want to correct any of my dumb American opinions I am all ears!
Not Belgian, But a Dutch living in Brussels. I don't think Belgium will break up anytime soon. Specially on a whole Flanders would lose a lot. Because even tough Antwerp has a lot of money they're...
Not Belgian, But a Dutch living in Brussels.
I don't think Belgium will break up anytime soon. Specially on a whole Flanders would lose a lot.
Because even tough Antwerp has a lot of money they're missing the one thing the Brussels (but it's supposedly "lacking" money) does have.
Soft power! and it has it in spades. And I don't think Brussels would join Flanders if a divide comes.
So Flanders would at that moment be at a heavy net loss. (I think)
Then of course, I'm no politician and I'm still an immigrant to this country. sooooo I'm probably wrong
An unexpected surge in public support for the Dutch far-right could pave the way for veteran anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders to play a pivotal role in the formation of the next government after parliamentary elections on Wednesday.
A Maurice de Hond poll over the weekend found Wilders’ Freedom party (PVV) tied in first place with the liberal VVD party of outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte, indicating that a rightwing coalition was the most likely outcome, according to analysts.
A Labour-Green alliance of parties was trailing behind in third place, along with New Social Contract (NSC), a recently formed centre-right party that is likely to be indispensable to any ruling coalition.
Even if the Hond opinion poll proves to be an unreliable outlier with its projection that Wilders’s party will win 26 seats in the 150-seat assembly, a rightwing government is unlikely to take office without the Freedom party’s backing.
Two days until I have to vote. Won't be PVV because fucking hell why would you screw yourself so much.
I'm dreading the results.
We've had over a decade of "liberalism" in the form of the neoliberal VVD that went nowhere, and now we're looking at an even further right pull. After regional/provincial elections were taken by storm by the BBB (farmers party) this is just a great way to cap off a shitty election cycle.
Only thing we can hope for is that nobody wants to work with the PVV, as has been historically the case. Well once, but that collapsed quickly.
It's not even that. I really, really don't understand the motivations of my fellow voters.
For those who are not aware, the last 13 years the largest party was the neoliberal VVD, with Mark Rutte as prime minister. With one exception, he consistently ruled together with the CDA (christen democrats), one of the other major parties. During this long streak of Rutte a lot of things went wrong and everyone was getting really tired of him. One of the few things that unified the country was the common sigh of relief when he finally decided to step down.
In the CDA things went not very smooth in the past few years. After some internal struggles one of their members of parliament, Pieter Omtzigt, decided to step out and form his own party, the NSC. Omtzigt is a very exceptional man in politics, because he is one that actually does the work he is supposed to do. This makes him kind of saint that can do no wrong in the public's eye. However, if you look what his plans and opinions boil down to more carefully, you'll see that it is mostly the same as those of the party he left. (Which makes sense.)
So. The people were really sick of the VVD and the CDA and the complaints were endless. And now among the highest polling parties are... the VVD (but with a new face) and the NSC (which is actually the CDA with a new face). Somehow people believe that this will change everything.
Edit: Welp, I guess they actually choose something else this time.
Is there any country that isn’t lurching to the right lately? Serious question.
Hopefully we all survive long enough to see the pendulum swing back.
Australia went to the left last election, and UK is set to swing hard left next year. Poland went back left too.
Incumbent governments in general are suffering. There's a cost of living crisis everywhere, and people usually blame their own governments.
I wouldn't say Labour under Keir Starmer are hard left, centre to centre-left more likely.
Unless you meant how it's likely to be a Tory wipeout with the way the polls are going and we're likely to see Labour holding 75%+ of the seats in parliament with the Tories essentially having no floor as to how low the number of seats they'll hold can go.
That poll putting them in 4th place the other day was wild.
Sorry, I'm not saying Starmer is hard left. I'm saying the UK is going to take a hard turn to the left, from the rightwing Tories to the centre-left Labour. Like you say, if the polls hold for next year, the Tories are going to get slaughtered. Blaming the appalling state of affairs on the last Labour government seems to have finally run of out of juice.
It's unbelievable how long that worked for as well, it wouldn't surprise me if it was still working in an alternate universe where Covid hadn't happened, that seems to have signalled a shift in the zeitgeist.
That stupid letter left by Liam Byrne as a joke in 2010 though saying there was no money left gave the Tories all the ammunition they needed.
It really is incredible that they were able to blame Labour for the economy after being in power for over a decade.
Now just imagine if Ed had eaten that sandwich right. Yes, I'm still bitter.
Poland went from conservative populist right to conservative neoliberal right. There's social liberal element to the coalition but it has no say in anything important (joining at those terms confused many left voters).
I'll defer to you on specifics. I'll note that Wikipedia has Civic Coalition's ideology as "centre", and PiS as "right-wing". That is a leftward turn.
They're different in rhetoric and image but the main difference is in friendliness towards EU.
They're definitely not left on the economic axis. In terms of civil rights, Civic Coalition is declaratively pro equal rights for women and lgbt people. Ultimately they have so many conservative members that new government will consists almost entirely of men. Promised abortion rights were swept away immediately after elections, the way it goes now we might change one of the harshest laws in the world to the harshest in Europe. Even civil unions that all upcoming coalition members are for (Trzecia Droga, KO, Lewica) were not put in their formal coalition agreement because minor coalition member protested and it was apparently not important enough to fight for. They've been behaving the same during their 8 year rule that ended 8 years ago.
In my book their actions put them firmly in the right, centre-right if we're generous.
Denmark is remarkably stable, with barely any changes in the last year. The leading party of the coalition (Social Democrats, centre-left but more centre than left, with an immigration policy similar to right wing parties) has a small plurality of 20-25% in recent polls and most of votes they lost since the election went to a left-wing opposition party.
As someone on the other side of the pond, do you have a sense of why the outcomes are different?
I’m considering moving to Belgium some time in the near future for a change of pace (have friends who live there) but I’m worried the tide of far right bullshit will spill over there. It’s hard sometimes to understand the energy on the ground.
Not sure about the Belgian situation and even about Denmark my view might be different from most, as I moved here a few years ago from another European country that is in much worse shape. If I tried to sum it up quickly, I'd say that it comes down to how much more difficult it is for extremism to take hold when everything is, generally speaking, functional. It's remarkable how easy it is to ignore politics when wages are solid, healthcare is public and accessible, education is free and even subsidised for students, housing is reasonable, unemployment is low, and so is inflation. It's not paradise, but any mistakes politicians make, any global or regional crises that occur are far less likely to strike discontent when you can just get on with your life as they happen.
I generally agree - but which country / countries are you referring to other than Denmark? Because even Finland lurched right and I guess NL is next.
Belgium is quite likely to break up in the near future and the far right is resurgent.
As far as I can tell from the article it’s the same song and dance it’s been for a little while - anti-immigrant sentiment in Flanders, and the far-right party, who commands a plurality (but not majority) hoping to leverage that into breaking off from Brussels & Walloon.
My friend lives in Brussels and that is my most probable destination. Even though he’s native Dutch speaking he has a dim opinion of Flanders for, well…basically the exact reasons listed in that article.
Maybe this is me being a dumb American, but the possible breakup of Belgium doesn’t seem as bad as the existential threats to the US I see on the horizon for a few reasons:
I am keenly aware that every country has its problems. But as an American in 2023 the grass certainly does seem greener elsewhere.
If any Belgians have any insight or want to correct any of my dumb American opinions I am all ears!
Not Belgian, But a Dutch living in Brussels.
I don't think Belgium will break up anytime soon. Specially on a whole Flanders would lose a lot.
Because even tough Antwerp has a lot of money they're missing the one thing the Brussels (but it's supposedly "lacking" money) does have.
Soft power! and it has it in spades. And I don't think Brussels would join Flanders if a divide comes.
So Flanders would at that moment be at a heavy net loss. (I think)
Then of course, I'm no politician and I'm still an immigrant to this country. sooooo I'm probably wrong
Mirror, for those hit by the paywall:
https://archive.is/tA3Bs