Fal's recent activity
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Comment on Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops in ~humanities
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Comment on Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops in ~humanities
Fal Link ParentDead languages are still understood and intelligible, they just don’t have native speakers. People understand LatinDead languages are still understood and intelligible, they just don’t have native speakers. People understand Latin
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Comment on Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops in ~humanities
Fal (edited )Link ParentI mean that's just an argument you can make about religiosity as a whole, which isn't a particularly productive line of discussion. My point isn't to make a claim whether this practice is good or...Equally silly in all cases. Common doesn’t mean good.
I mean that's just an argument you can make about religiosity as a whole, which isn't a particularly productive line of discussion. My point isn't to make a claim whether this practice is good or bad, but the fact that the same phenomenon shows up independently across so many unrelated traditions suggests that a reductive explanation like "liturgical languages only exist to trick people and maintain control" doesn't tell nearly the whole story. Its not like the Buddhist monks are winning huge levels of societal control when someone alone in their house chants a sutra in a dead language.
As @stu2b50 points out, these are rituals, not university lectures. Even if a longtime Catholic churchgoer can't hold conversation in Latin, they know what words and phrases mean, so clearly some kind of meaning is being transferred. Besides, learning Catholic doctrine isn't necessarily going to happen during mass anyways, that's what catechesis is for. Joining the Catholic Church as an adult through the OCIA involves months of common-language instruction in scripture and doctrine specifically so people understand what they're doing before/while they participate in Latin rites. This isn't even Catholic-exclusive, Islamic madrasas are taught in the common language, as are explanations of Buddhist sutras, and so on.
If the speaker isn’t using a language the listener understands, there’s no meaning being transferred. The reason for Latin mass as far as I can tell is to insulate people from what their religion is actually about and maintain vibe based group identity. You can’t have doctrinal schism if nobody knows what the doctrine is.
I fully get where you're coming from, there's definitely historical cases of organized religion obfuscating theological meaning from the masses (there's a reason the Church resisted vernacular Bibles for so long). But like... this just isn't historically true? Not only has there been a number of schisms from the Latin mass, we're literally commenting on a post about a Latin-Mass-exclusive group being excommunicated over a doctrinal dispute. SSPX has celebrated "unintelligible noises" for 50+ years and somehow still managed to develop such a specific, deeply-held doctrinal position that Rome just declared them in schism over it. If Latin liturgy successfully prevented people from knowing what the doctrine was, this article wouldn't exist.
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Comment on Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops in ~humanities
Fal (edited )Link ParentI mean the use of a liturgical language that practitioners aren't fully or even partially fluent in is a pretty common practice. Islamic prayer is done in Arabic, even in regions where Arabic...- Exemplary
I mean the use of a liturgical language that practitioners aren't fully or even partially fluent in is a pretty common practice. Islamic prayer is done in Arabic, even in regions where Arabic isn't spoken (Indonesia, Bosnia, Nigeria, etc.). Buddhist sutras are in Pali, which like Latin only exists as a liturgical language. We can go on: Jewish prayers in Aramaic, Sikhs in Gurmukhi, Hindu in Sanskrit, etc.
The reason for this varies across all these religions but it often has to do with trying to adhere as closely as possible to the original theological meanings, and by using a liturgical or "dead" language the holy meanings won't change over the centuries due to linguistic drift. For global religions like Catholicism and Islam, this also has the benefit of allowing believers in very different parts of the world to pray together identically, without the inherent shifts in meaning that come with translation.
Not to say that there aren't earthly reasons like reinforcing the authority of the priestly class or reinforcing communal identities against stuff like the Protestant reformation, but the theological reasoning for maintaining these liturgical languages is pretty interesting. Since I'm agnostic I won't pretend to fully understand it, but its common enough across many religions and so I wouldn't dismiss the practice as absurd out of hand.
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Comment on Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops in ~humanities
Fal LinkThe Vatican responded aggressively Thursday to a traditionalist group that consecrated bishops without the pope’s consent, declaring the Society of St. Pius X had formally broken with the Catholic Church. It excommunicated its bishops and priests, and warned its faithful that they too face the harshest sanctions in the church.
By declaring a schism and extending excommunications to potentially thousands of Catholics, the Vatican’s doctrine office went above and beyond the minimum sanctions foreseen by the church’s canon law to respond to the consecrations Wednesday of four new bishops.
The society, known by its acronym SSPX, celebrates the ancient Latin Mass and opposes the modernizing reforms of the Catholic Church, which it considers to be rife with heresies and errors. While a fringe movement on the Catholic right, the SSPX has been a thorn in the Vatican’s side for five decades because it claims to be even more Catholic than the Holy See.
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Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops
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Comment on Cargobike recommendations and advice in ~hobbies
Fal Linkcargo bike? uhhhhh no car go beep beep you feeling alright there man?cargo bike?
uhhhhh no car go beep beep
you feeling alright there man?
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Comment on Tildes Game Giveaway: June 2026 in ~games
Fal Link ParentCould I get the Ghostrunner 2 copy? I loved the first one. Thanks!Could I get the Ghostrunner 2 copy? I loved the first one. Thanks!
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentI'm half Chinese so I already had tones and grammar down from talking with family, but I took 2 years of Mandarin courses in college since my vocab was pretty limited.I'm half Chinese so I already had tones and grammar down from talking with family, but I took 2 years of Mandarin courses in college since my vocab was pretty limited.
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentI'm going to be applying for PhD programs this fall, focusing on either international relations, comparative politics, or likely some combination of the two. Most of my existing research has been...I'm going to be applying for PhD programs this fall, focusing on either international relations, comparative politics, or likely some combination of the two. Most of my existing research has been on US-China competition, especially in Southeast Asia, and the effects of public diplomacy, and I'd like to continue that research.
Until then though, I'm trying to find some research work I can do while applying and waiting to see if I get in anywhere (I'm a bit doubtful, but fingers crossed). If any of you are professors or work at a thinktank and looking for research assistants/analysts hit me up :p
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentThank you! I’m a native English speaker, and I’m conversational in Mandarin. I also took French in high school but would be hard pressed to recall any of itThank you! I’m a native English speaker, and I’m conversational in Mandarin. I also took French in high school but would be hard pressed to recall any of it
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Giannis Antetokounmpo trade: Miami Heat land Milwaukee Bucks star in massive blockbuster
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentCheating a bit since this was an undergrad class, but my introductory macroeconomics class was one of the worst organized and taught classes I’ve taken, despite not being particularly difficult....Cheating a bit since this was an undergrad class, but my introductory macroeconomics class was one of the worst organized and taught classes I’ve taken, despite not being particularly difficult. As far as graduate classes, I’d have to say international law for similar organizational reasons, even though it was cool in concept and the teacher was really passionate
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentThank you! Thankfully all standing and/or sitting was done inside this yearThank you! Thankfully all standing and/or sitting was done inside this year
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentHi chocobean, nice to see you here! I went to school in San Diego, which has a huge variety of bird species. I had a really cool experience where a red shouldered hawk landed on the fence on the...Hi chocobean, nice to see you here!
I went to school in San Diego, which has a huge variety of bird species. I had a really cool experience where a red shouldered hawk landed on the fence on the other side of the backyard from me and stared at me for a while. I unfortunately wasn’t able to get a pic, but it was duly logged in my Merlin Bird ID bird tracker
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentI didn’t actually know that, I’ll have to confront my Turkish roommate for withholding this info from me. Yeah the job market is pretty abysmal right now but I’m looking to stave off unemployment...I didn’t actually know that, I’ll have to confront my Turkish roommate for withholding this info from me.
Yeah the job market is pretty abysmal right now but I’m looking to stave off unemployment by doing a PhD (though it’s tough getting anything there too right now). I will have a year before I could even start doing that so I’ll be looking for research jobs anyways 😔
Thanks for your kind words!
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal Link ParentYes. My favorite flavor is maple Shoutout my favorite rapper T-swizzleYes. My favorite flavor is maple
Shoutout my favorite rapper T-swizzle
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Comment on Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA in ~talk
Fal (edited )Link ParentI’m partial to cold chili oil noodles. My preferred noodles are udon or flat noodles (he fen, biang biang, etc) with a beer (I’ve been drinking Cass recently)I’m partial to cold chili oil noodles. My preferred noodles are udon or flat noodles (he fen, biang biang, etc) with a beer (I’ve been drinking Cass recently)
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Graduated again, not sitting in a field this time, AMA
Last year I ran an AMA while sitting in a field waiting to graduate from my undergrad program. I had planned to do the same thing again as I graduated from my master's program but was foiled by...
Last year I ran an AMA while sitting in a field waiting to graduate from my undergrad program. I had planned to do the same thing again as I graduated from my master's program but was foiled by the 502 Bad Gateway last week, and then forgot to do it after as I was busy with moving and celebrations.
So, 1 year older (and wiser? -ish?), with deeper eye bags and less sleep, AMA
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Comment on I'm going on vacation in ~tildes
I mention this in my other comment, but as I understand it new Catholics have to undergo instruction in understanding the rites, which is taught in common language. Also I'm pretty sure that Catholic priests have to have a M. Div degree, and somewhere in the ~8 years of schooling they're required to learn Latin, so I think we can safely assume that the priests speaking do actually understand Latin.