Based on my understanding of how the French democracy works, there isn’t anything about this that is necessarily undemocratic. In a French parliamentary election, the people vote for members of...
Exemplary
Based on my understanding of how the French democracy works, there isn’t anything about this that is necessarily undemocratic. In a French parliamentary election, the people vote for members of parliament, not for a government. The convention is that the majority party/bloc in parliament forms a government, since they can guarantee that they have the confidence of parliament and will be able to pass laws (due to holding a majority). Moreover, if a party has a majority, the President has no other option but to allow them to form a government, since otherwise that party could immediately pass a vote of no confidence in the government appointed from a minority, and that government would be entirely unable to pass any legislation.
In the most recent election, no party/bloc won a majority (I believe this is very unusual for France). This created a very difficult situation for Macron, since as the President it’s his job to appoint a government that can run the country, but since the three major blocs broadly disagree with each other, it was impossible for him to appoint a government that would actually be able to maintain the confidence of parliament and be able to pass any legislation.
In a country like the UK (where I live) we would just dissolve parliament and hold another election until there was a group in parliament that was strong enough to form a government. However, I believe the French constitution doesn’t allow for this approach, so Macron has to appoint a government of some sort. It seems that the centre (Ensemble) and right wing (RN) blocs are more willing to work together, while the left wing (NFP) have been insisting that they should be handed total control of the government since they won the largest number of seats (but still a minority!)
I’m sympathetic to the view that the left wing “won” the election by virtue of being the largest bloc, but it’s pretty clear their unwillingness to compromise to form a coalition government with the centre means they would not be able to hold the confidence of parliament and would immediately be ousted if Macron did allow them to form a government. If the centre and right are willing to work together, at least enough to allow a government to not immediately suffer a vote of no confidence, then Macron doesn’t really have another choice. And remember, he was democratically elected to be President, and one of the most important jobs of the President is to appoint the government, so it’s hardly “undemocratic” if the democratically elected President appoints a government that will actually be able to hold the confidence of parliament and pass legislation.
And so instead of compromising with the left (and the majority of voters), he managed to make another right-wing government. In the end, the assembly dissolution was 100% useless (on top of being...
This created a very difficult situation for Macron, since as the President it’s his job to appoint a government that can run the country, but since the three major blocs broadly disagree with each other, it was impossible for him to appoint a government that would actually be able to maintain the confidence of parliament and be able to pass any legislation.
And so instead of compromising with the left (and the majority of voters), he managed to make another right-wing government. In the end, the assembly dissolution was 100% useless (on top of being a total sore loser move), the Left who (barely) won is not even accurately represented in the new government, and people who say "voting is useless" are now correct. Oh and the far-right gained even more ground.
Edit: yes Macron is "technically correct". That doesn't mean he's right (no pun intended).
Perhaps Macron prefers to compromise with the right (centrists do always seem to compromise to the right rather than the left) - but that doesn’t change the fact that the NFP, and Melenchon in...
Perhaps Macron prefers to compromise with the right (centrists do always seem to compromise to the right rather than the left) - but that doesn’t change the fact that the NFP, and Melenchon in particular, have offered nothing but antagonism and unwillingness to appeal to the centre. A purely left wing government would not be a reasonable outcome of this election given that the NFP are nowhere near a majority. If the NFP wanted to form a government, they would have needed to compromise with the centre and form a centre-left government, rather than trying to be radical, especially since the radical position of the most left-wing members of the bloc are not reflective of the position of the French public, and certainly not in line with the outcome of the election.
On a separate note, I totally agree that Macron calling this election was a bizarre move that has clearly served to do nothing but deprive the French people of an effective government with a majority in parliament, increase the polarisation of French politics (a disturbing trend being seen in many western democracies), and ultimately ending up with a more right-wing government which doesn’t accurately reflect the desires of the French people.
Edit: the point I’m trying to make here is that it’s easy to criticise Macron for “not respecting the outcome of the election”, but the harder thing to is to critically examine how NFP have approached the result of this election in attempting to form a government. But, in my opinion, the latter is the much more important thing to do for people who want to see left-wing parties win elections and form governments.
I don't disagree with what you said, but 2 things: Centrists are always closeted right-wingers, but Macron has been out of that closet at least since he's been elected President. His politics have...
I don't disagree with what you said, but 2 things:
centrists do always seem to compromise to the right rather than the left
Centrists are always closeted right-wingers, but Macron has been out of that closet at least since he's been elected President. His politics have always been fully on the right.
A purely left wing government would not be a reasonable outcome of this election given that the NFP are nowhere near a majority
But now there's a purely right wing government, how is this a more reasonable outcome? Lucie Castets, the former NFP candidate for Prime Minister, openly said she was open to compromises. We'll never know 🤷♂️
Edit: a proportional representation would be better (though not a panacea, for sure), but that change isn't going to happen.
I mean, if you're counting Macron's party as "right wing", then 159 (Macron) + 142 (RN) + LR (39) = 340 / 577, which is a majority - the majority of Parliament is "right wing" by that definition,...
But now there's a purely right wing government,
I mean, if you're counting Macron's party as "right wing", then 159 (Macron) + 142 (RN) + LR (39) = 340 / 577, which is a majority - the majority of Parliament is "right wing" by that definition, so it is only natural that the new government is right wing. The right wing won the election, they get to form the new government.
I can get behind this logic, but I still find it ridiculous Macron had to do this whole circus to end up at square one (and, again, give even more ground to the far right clowns), and more than...
I can get behind this logic, but I still find it ridiculous Macron had to do this whole circus to end up at square one (and, again, give even more ground to the far right clowns), and more than anything, that the left isn't represented at all in the government despite being the winning bloc.
That's what I was saying in my first post: he's technically correct but he's still an ass and a sore loser.
Technically, a plurality of voters voted far-right -- the leftist NFP and Macron's centrists each got about 25% in the second round, while the National Rally got more than one-third. The NFP only...
Technically, a plurality of voters voted far-right -- the leftist NFP and Macron's centrists each got about 25% in the second round, while the National Rally got more than one-third. The NFP only won the most seats because of tactical withdrawals in cooperation with Ensemble to deny Le Pen a majority. I'm glad it worked, but it does undercut their claim to democratic legitimacy a bit.
This reminds me of back in the 80s when François Mitterrand, the Socialist president, had to form and work with a right-leaning government because of the parliamentary election results. It was...
This reminds me of back in the 80s when François Mitterrand, the Socialist president, had to form and work with a right-leaning government because of the parliamentary election results. It was called “cohabitation”.
The French government appears to be moving to the right regardless of the election's outcome.
The long-awaited new line up, led by Prime Minister Michel Barnier, marks a decisive shift to the right, even though a left-wing alliance won most parliamentary seats. [...]
Just one left-wing politician was given a post in the cabinet, independent Didier Migaud, who was appointed as justice minister. [...]
On Saturday, before the cabinet announcement, thousands of left-wing supporters demonstrated in Paris against the incoming government, arguing that the left’s performance in the election was not taken into consideration. [...]
The alliance between centrist and conservative parties in the cabinet is not enough to pass legislation on its own. It will depend on others, such as Marine Le Pen's far right National Rally to stay in power and get bills into law.
The French government appears to be moving to the right regardless of the election's outcome.
This is the election’s outcome. In a multiparty system, you cannot simply win the most seats to have power - you need a majority, or to form a coalition that has the majority. The left did neither.
This is the election’s outcome. In a multiparty system, you cannot simply win the most seats to have power - you need a majority, or to form a coalition that has the majority. The left did neither.
Then what's the point of democratic elections?
Based on my understanding of how the French democracy works, there isn’t anything about this that is necessarily undemocratic. In a French parliamentary election, the people vote for members of parliament, not for a government. The convention is that the majority party/bloc in parliament forms a government, since they can guarantee that they have the confidence of parliament and will be able to pass laws (due to holding a majority). Moreover, if a party has a majority, the President has no other option but to allow them to form a government, since otherwise that party could immediately pass a vote of no confidence in the government appointed from a minority, and that government would be entirely unable to pass any legislation.
In the most recent election, no party/bloc won a majority (I believe this is very unusual for France). This created a very difficult situation for Macron, since as the President it’s his job to appoint a government that can run the country, but since the three major blocs broadly disagree with each other, it was impossible for him to appoint a government that would actually be able to maintain the confidence of parliament and be able to pass any legislation.
In a country like the UK (where I live) we would just dissolve parliament and hold another election until there was a group in parliament that was strong enough to form a government. However, I believe the French constitution doesn’t allow for this approach, so Macron has to appoint a government of some sort. It seems that the centre (Ensemble) and right wing (RN) blocs are more willing to work together, while the left wing (NFP) have been insisting that they should be handed total control of the government since they won the largest number of seats (but still a minority!)
I’m sympathetic to the view that the left wing “won” the election by virtue of being the largest bloc, but it’s pretty clear their unwillingness to compromise to form a coalition government with the centre means they would not be able to hold the confidence of parliament and would immediately be ousted if Macron did allow them to form a government. If the centre and right are willing to work together, at least enough to allow a government to not immediately suffer a vote of no confidence, then Macron doesn’t really have another choice. And remember, he was democratically elected to be President, and one of the most important jobs of the President is to appoint the government, so it’s hardly “undemocratic” if the democratically elected President appoints a government that will actually be able to hold the confidence of parliament and pass legislation.
And so instead of compromising with the left (and the majority of voters), he managed to make another right-wing government. In the end, the assembly dissolution was 100% useless (on top of being a total sore loser move), the Left who (barely) won is not even accurately represented in the new government, and people who say "voting is useless" are now correct. Oh and the far-right gained even more ground.
Edit: yes Macron is "technically correct". That doesn't mean he's right (no pun intended).
Perhaps Macron prefers to compromise with the right (centrists do always seem to compromise to the right rather than the left) - but that doesn’t change the fact that the NFP, and Melenchon in particular, have offered nothing but antagonism and unwillingness to appeal to the centre. A purely left wing government would not be a reasonable outcome of this election given that the NFP are nowhere near a majority. If the NFP wanted to form a government, they would have needed to compromise with the centre and form a centre-left government, rather than trying to be radical, especially since the radical position of the most left-wing members of the bloc are not reflective of the position of the French public, and certainly not in line with the outcome of the election.
On a separate note, I totally agree that Macron calling this election was a bizarre move that has clearly served to do nothing but deprive the French people of an effective government with a majority in parliament, increase the polarisation of French politics (a disturbing trend being seen in many western democracies), and ultimately ending up with a more right-wing government which doesn’t accurately reflect the desires of the French people.
Edit: the point I’m trying to make here is that it’s easy to criticise Macron for “not respecting the outcome of the election”, but the harder thing to is to critically examine how NFP have approached the result of this election in attempting to form a government. But, in my opinion, the latter is the much more important thing to do for people who want to see left-wing parties win elections and form governments.
I don't disagree with what you said, but 2 things:
Centrists are always closeted right-wingers, but Macron has been out of that closet at least since he's been elected President. His politics have always been fully on the right.
But now there's a purely right wing government, how is this a more reasonable outcome? Lucie Castets, the former NFP candidate for Prime Minister, openly said she was open to compromises. We'll never know 🤷♂️
Edit: a proportional representation would be better (though not a panacea, for sure), but that change isn't going to happen.
I mean, if you're counting Macron's party as "right wing", then 159 (Macron) + 142 (RN) + LR (39) = 340 / 577, which is a majority - the majority of Parliament is "right wing" by that definition, so it is only natural that the new government is right wing. The right wing won the election, they get to form the new government.
I can get behind this logic, but I still find it ridiculous Macron had to do this whole circus to end up at square one (and, again, give even more ground to the far right clowns), and more than anything, that the left isn't represented at all in the government despite being the winning bloc.
That's what I was saying in my first post: he's technically correct but he's still an ass and a sore loser.
You said it yourself: centrist are closeted right wingers. So now French government is right wing, like the majority of parliament
Technically, a plurality of voters voted far-right -- the leftist NFP and Macron's centrists each got about 25% in the second round, while the National Rally got more than one-third. The NFP only won the most seats because of tactical withdrawals in cooperation with Ensemble to deny Le Pen a majority. I'm glad it worked, but it does undercut their claim to democratic legitimacy a bit.
This reminds me of back in the 80s when François Mitterrand, the Socialist president, had to form and work with a right-leaning government because of the parliamentary election results. It was called “cohabitation”.
Can you elaborate?
The French government appears to be moving to the right regardless of the election's outcome.
This is the election’s outcome. In a multiparty system, you cannot simply win the most seats to have power - you need a majority, or to form a coalition that has the majority. The left did neither.