9 votes

Facing criticism, CMPD defends release of shorter video from police shooting

19 comments

  1. [17]
    Keegan Link
    Normally police shootings at least have some sort of reasoning behind the shooting, but this one is impossible to defend.

    Normally police shootings at least have some sort of reasoning behind the shooting, but this one is impossible to defend.

    4 votes
    1. [16]
      Cosmos Link Parent
      How is it impossible to defend? The guy did have a gun. You can see the cop pick it up at the end.

      How is it impossible to defend? The guy did have a gun. You can see the cop pick it up at the end.

      2 votes
      1. [15]
        Keegan Link Parent
        They told him to drop it. He was trying to set it down. You can hear him say that he was only doing what they asked at the end. Even based on the way he was holding it right before he got shot you...

        They told him to drop it. He was trying to set it down. You can hear him say that he was only doing what they asked at the end. Even based on the way he was holding it right before he got shot you can see it. He didn't try to move it quickly or try to shoot the officers.

        He did make a horrible choice in bringing the gun into the restaurant and threatening people, but he was trying to surrender.

        Either way, they could have easily tased him and diffused the situation.

        10 votes
        1. [14]
          Cosmos Link Parent
          Ah, didn't catch that in the video. How are the cops supposed to know that? It only takes a fraction of a second for him to point it at them and pull the trigger. That's the same reason you don't...

          Ah, didn't catch that in the video.

          but he was trying to surrender.

          How are the cops supposed to know that? It only takes a fraction of a second for him to point it at them and pull the trigger. That's the same reason you don't pull out a tazer when someone has a gun too. Here's an excellent video showing just how tough these decisions are.

          He wasn't doing what they asked. They asked him to drop it, but he didn't.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Keegan Link Parent
            It's just a bad situation for everyone involved. The officers were all screaming and it must have been very disorienting. They escalated the situation a lot, but like you said, it is a difficult...

            It's just a bad situation for everyone involved. The officers were all screaming and it must have been very disorienting. They escalated the situation a lot, but like you said, it is a difficult decision. He could have dropped it, and I guess we'll never know why he didn't.

            Maybe he was contemplating the decision, since if he did it he would for sure go to jail, and if he didn't drop it he might have a chance to escape and be free.

            5 votes
            1. [2]
              Cosmos Link Parent
              Well he committed a crime, so he should have gone to jail. But regardless, at least he would still be alive if he were to have complied right away. You can always deal with the bullshit later if...

              Maybe he was contemplating the decision, since if he did it he would for sure go to jail

              Well he committed a crime, so he should have gone to jail. But regardless, at least he would still be alive if he were to have complied right away. You can always deal with the bullshit later if you are falsely charged with something.

              And you now seem to be diverting from your original comment. You started out by saying that defending this is impossible, which it's not.

              2 votes
              1. Keegan Link Parent
                He was definitely going to jail. There was no getting out of that. He was waving a gun around in the store and might have been taking the manager hostage, as he was in the passenger side of a car....

                Well he committed a crime, so he should have gone to jail. But regardless, at least he would still be alive if he were to have complied right away. You can always deal with the bullshit later if you are falsely charged with something.

                He was definitely going to jail. There was no getting out of that. He was waving a gun around in the store and might have been taking the manager hostage, as he was in the passenger side of a car.

                And you now seem to be diverting from your original comment. You started out by saying that defending this is impossible, which it's not.

                You are correct in that.

                2 votes
          2. [10]
            spit-evil-olive-tips Link Parent
            Here's the bodycam video, slowed down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KavcyH_8bS0 He's putting the gun down, as they told him to, when he's shot.

            He wasn't doing what they asked. They asked him to drop it, but he didn't.

            Here's the bodycam video, slowed down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KavcyH_8bS0

            He's putting the gun down, as they told him to, when he's shot.

            5 votes
            1. [9]
              Cosmos Link Parent
              Again, how are the cops supposed to know he was putting it down after hesitating for so long instead of grabbing it to point at them? The time it takes for either of those to happen is a fraction...

              Again, how are the cops supposed to know he was putting it down after hesitating for so long instead of grabbing it to point at them? The time it takes for either of those to happen is a fraction of a second. It's an impossible situation the cops are put in.

              The best way to solve this issue is to put yourself in the cops shoes, and comply with everything they say without hesitation.

              1. [8]
                gpl Link Parent
                I agree that he should have dropped it quicker, but he was complying with their orders, and I don't think hesitation (if he even is hesitating rather than moving slowing and deliberately, the...

                I agree that he should have dropped it quicker, but he was complying with their orders, and I don't think hesitation (if he even is hesitating rather than moving slowing and deliberately, the video is unclear) warrants execution. What's the point of issuing orders if you're going to shoot them when they are complying? What's the point of even complying in the first place?

                I understand this is a stressful situation for the cops, but its a stressful situation for the suspect-turned-victim too. Ultimately this is the cops fault - they gave him an order that, through his compliance, made them think they were in danger. If he hadn't dropped the gun, would they have been justified in shooting him for not obeying? Was there any way out of this were the man did not get shot?

                5 votes
                1. [7]
                  Ellimist Link Parent
                  Incorrect Ultimately, this is the suspects fault. He brought the gun out first, he waved it at innocents, and in the process, made himself to be a threat both to the civilians and the officers.

                  Incorrect

                  Ultimately, this is the suspects fault. He brought the gun out first, he waved it at innocents, and in the process, made himself to be a threat both to the civilians and the officers.

                  1 vote
                  1. [3]
                    Gaywallet Link Parent
                    So the punishment for waving a gun at innocent people is death? Why even bother with the facade of trying to arrest him then? The cops might as well just show up and shoot him immediately.

                    So the punishment for waving a gun at innocent people is death?

                    Why even bother with the facade of trying to arrest him then? The cops might as well just show up and shoot him immediately.

                    4 votes
                    1. Adys Link Parent
                      No, the risk for waving a gun at innocent people is death. I'm sorry, I'm pretty anti-police-leaning, especially anti-US-police, but if you wave a gun at innocent people, you're risking death,...

                      So the punishment for waving a gun at innocent people is death?

                      No, the risk for waving a gun at innocent people is death.

                      I'm sorry, I'm pretty anti-police-leaning, especially anti-US-police, but if you wave a gun at innocent people, you're risking death, period.

                      It's not the ideal outcome, and the actual punishment should certainly not be death (nor is it), but … yeah. The US is getting what it pays for in terms of gun control here.

                      3 votes
                    2. Ellimist Link Parent
                      I’m not passing judgment on the officers actions. I come from a LEO family so my bias makes it incredibly difficult to see things objectively. I’m merely pointing out to the person that I...

                      I’m not passing judgment on the officers actions. I come from a LEO family so my bias makes it incredibly difficult to see things objectively.

                      I’m merely pointing out to the person that I responded to that the officers were not “ultimately responsible” for what happened. The ultimate responsibility falls to the man who waved a gun at innocent people in the first place

                      2 votes
                  2. [3]
                    Keegan Link Parent
                    He WAS a threat, but he was no longer a threat when he was surrendering. In fact, I don't believe the officers even had a positive ID that he was for sure the guy who was waving a gun at people....

                    He WAS a threat, but he was no longer a threat when he was surrendering.

                    In fact, I don't believe the officers even had a positive ID that he was for sure the guy who was waving a gun at people. He was just a guy who had a gun (which is not an issue since North Carolina is an open carry state, with no permit required).

                    1. [2]
                      Ellimist Link Parent
                      So long as the gun was in his possession, he was a threat. It takes a split second for a seemingly peaceful surrender to go south. However, as I told another Tildo, I’m not passing judgement on...

                      So long as the gun was in his possession, he was a threat. It takes a split second for a seemingly peaceful surrender to go south. However, as I told another Tildo, I’m not passing judgement on the officers actions. My bias makes things like this incredibly difficult to view and analyze objectively.

                      According to some of the articles I read, there were at least two different 911 calls placed, from a Burger King in the middle of the day with multiple employees, customers, and cameras. If the 911 dispatchers were doing their jobs, they would’ve had a pretty solid physical description of the suspect. And given that the outrage is over the suspect apparently complying and still being shot and NOT over whether or not he was the right person to begin with, I’d say the responding officers were pretty certain they had the right person

                      1 vote
                      1. Keegan Link Parent
                        You have more perspective than me in this matter, so I see your point now. Also, just saying (you didn't imply this, I just want to get it out there), I am certainly not the kind of person that...

                        You have more perspective than me in this matter, so I see your point now.

                        Also, just saying (you didn't imply this, I just want to get it out there), I am certainly not the kind of person that thinks that all police officers are awful. I only think it was an unnecessary loss of life that could have been avoided, but the means of doing that are beyond me, as the bigger issue is not how the officers handled the situation, but WHY the man did what he did.

                        2 votes
  2. [2]
    AresUII Link
    North Carolina: The police state.
    1 vote
    1. Keegan Link Parent
      That's pretty interesting. Can you add a PDF warning next time though? :)

      That's pretty interesting.

      Can you add a PDF warning next time though? :)