23 votes

It is official, the smoking age will be 21 in Texas

23 comments

  1. [10]
    lobtask
    Link
    At this point might as well make the age for being an adult 21. Its ridiculous we Americans think one can be drafted for a war, but be able to enjoy a drink or a smoke.

    At this point might as well make the age for being an adult 21. Its ridiculous we Americans think one can be drafted for a war, but be able to enjoy a drink or a smoke.

    15 votes
    1. [2]
      Capn_HAXX
      Link Parent
      The US has proven time after time that they're OK with teenagers getting shot while also restricting pretty much every other right. The entire system is an ass-backwards Puritan shitshow and I...

      The US has proven time after time that they're OK with teenagers getting shot while also restricting pretty much every other right. The entire system is an ass-backwards Puritan shitshow and I really don't know how the majority of voters don't see that.

      19 votes
      1. lobtask
        Link Parent
        I believe it’s because the two party system in America is fucked up beyond repair. I have yet to see in other countries the same level of spite for the opposing political viewpoint that we have here.

        I believe it’s because the two party system in America is fucked up beyond repair. I have yet to see in other countries the same level of spite for the opposing political viewpoint that we have here.

        6 votes
    2. [6]
      lionirdeadman
      Link Parent
      From my knowledge, being drafted at 18 wouldn't imply you go in the frontlines, right? I'm not too familiar with how it works, but surely there's safe work in the army which would/could be applied?

      From my knowledge, being drafted at 18 wouldn't imply you go in the frontlines, right? I'm not too familiar with how it works, but surely there's safe work in the army which would/could be applied?

      1. [3]
        Atvelonis
        Link Parent
        The draft hasn't been called upon since Vietnam, but it would only be used again in a situation where there are literally not enough volunteers to be on the front lines. There are plenty of...

        The draft hasn't been called upon since Vietnam, but it would only be used again in a situation where there are literally not enough volunteers to be on the front lines. There are plenty of non-combat roles in the military, but the draft doesn't primarily exist to fill them.

        9 votes
        1. [2]
          Cosmos
          Link Parent
          What is the logic in that though? It definitely didn't work in Vietnam. It doesn't seem like an effective way to win a war by filling your front lines with people who don't want to be there and...

          What is the logic in that though? It definitely didn't work in Vietnam. It doesn't seem like an effective way to win a war by filling your front lines with people who don't want to be there and are not willing to die for their country.

          I guess there's no other alternative though, other than not fighting the war at all.

          2 votes
          1. CALICO
            Link Parent
            It worked for the Soviets in WW2. They threw conscripts into the meat grinder. With the US Military, modern day, teenagers absolutely see combat. Not exclusively, and most military positions are...

            It worked for the Soviets in WW2. They threw conscripts into the meat grinder.

            With the US Military, modern day, teenagers absolutely see combat. Not exclusively, and most military positions are supportive rather than strictly combative, but it happens and isn't all that rare. Younger folk seem to trend towards those kinds of roles, for any number of reasons. Pride, glory, hubris, etc. It's not great. We chew them up and spit 'em right back out with minimal support once they're not any more use.

            8 votes
      2. knocklessmonster
        Link Parent
        The draft is used to put warm bodies on the front lines. In Vietnam, draftees were automatically infantry unless they had some skill the military could use, but volunteers generally got to pick...

        The draft is used to put warm bodies on the front lines. In Vietnam, draftees were automatically infantry unless they had some skill the military could use, but volunteers generally got to pick their positions.

        3 votes
      3. lobtask
        Link Parent
        The Vietnam war proves otherwise. Ive heard many stories from older men who lost their friends soon after they graduated high school.

        The Vietnam war proves otherwise. Ive heard many stories from older men who lost their friends soon after they graduated high school.

        2 votes
    3. knocklessmonster
      Link Parent
      It exempts military service members, so I guess that's a perk for signing up.

      It exempts military service members, so I guess that's a perk for signing up.

  2. [12]
    Octofox
    Link
    I don't mind this too much since the idea is that no one should ever start smoking and not that they have to wait until they are ready. I do think the drinking age in America is way too high, 18...

    I don't mind this too much since the idea is that no one should ever start smoking and not that they have to wait until they are ready. I do think the drinking age in America is way too high, 18 which is used in most of the world seems very sensible.

    5 votes
    1. [10]
      gpl
      Link Parent
      At the same time, I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the government making relatively arbitrary distinctions between what choices are okay for adults to make and which aren’t. Either you’re an...

      At the same time, I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the government making relatively arbitrary distinctions between what choices are okay for adults to make and which aren’t. Either you’re an adult or you aren’t, and it’s weird that we have this gray period in between where legally you have all of the responsibilities of an adult but not all of the privileges therein. I agree regarding the age for alcohol for the same reason.

      If the government thinks cigarettes are dangerous enough that ‘no one should ever smoke them’, shouldn’t they just ban them instead of creating this weird adult-but-not-really period?

      11 votes
      1. [9]
        lionirdeadman
        Link Parent
        I think the thing is that the brain is still not fully developed before the age of 21 which would mean it could cause more damage than otherwise is my understanding. I don't think it has much to...

        At the same time, I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the government making relatively arbitrary distinctions between what choices are okay for adults to make and which aren’t. Either you’re an adult or you aren’t, and it’s weird that we have this gray period in between where legally you have all of the responsibilities of an adult but not all of the privileges therein. I agree regarding the age for alcohol for the same reason.

        I think the thing is that the brain is still not fully developed before the age of 21 which would mean it could cause more damage than otherwise is my understanding. I don't think it has much to do with judgement as much as safety and health.

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          Atvelonis
          Link Parent
          You're right that smoking isn't great for brain development, but I don't think that's the full picture. In the case of alcohol, in my anecdotal experience, underage drinkers actually tend to be...

          You're right that smoking isn't great for brain development, but I don't think that's the full picture. In the case of alcohol, in my anecdotal experience, underage drinkers actually tend to be the most unhealthy about it. There's a certain risk factor or coolness associated with alcohol that appeals to teenagers, so going all-out and getting completely wasted is the best way to stick it to the man and have fun. However, I don't think this holds true once you reach the arbitrary age of 21 and alcohol becomes legally accessible. At that point, I think most people start to drink less because there's no element of illicit behavior anymore. It's just drinking.

          I will say that it's pretty insane how accepted straight-up alcoholism is on college campuses (for example) in this country, especially in fraternities and sports teams. Administrators will make an effort to cut down on underage drinking to avoid legal liability, but the students never care, and do it anyway. It doesn't help that they'll usually get in trouble for reporting a safety incident if there's any alcohol involved, despite what admin says.

          9 votes
          1. lionirdeadman
            Link Parent
            Yeah, younger people tend to be more likely to take risks and such and I think that's definitely a problem but there's a problem in my book if the reason that you can't smoke isn't because it's...

            Yeah, younger people tend to be more likely to take risks and such and I think that's definitely a problem but there's a problem in my book if the reason that you can't smoke isn't because it's actually more harmful but because you're incapable of decision making when you can also do things which seem much more important to one's life like voting, sexual intercourse, educating kids, having a job, paying taxes, travelling, etc.

            I think it's unlikely that you wouldn't move all of those to 21 if smoking was moved to 21 because of poor decision making, right?

        2. [6]
          Cosmos
          Link Parent
          It does. The part of the brain that is last to develop is the frontal lobe. Which is the part that deals with judgment and decision making. So you are banning these harmful substances from young...

          I don't think it has much to do with judgement as much as safety and health.

          It does. The part of the brain that is last to develop is the frontal lobe. Which is the part that deals with judgment and decision making. So you are banning these harmful substances from young people because they are not biologically capable of making good decisions on whether or not they should use them. That's why we don't let kids vote or serve on juries too.

          4 votes
          1. [4]
            lionirdeadman
            Link Parent
            So we can have kids, get jobs, pay taxes and do all that but we'd be incapable of deciding what we ingest at that age? That seems... like a broken line of reasoning to me. I really do think it has...

            So we can have kids, get jobs, pay taxes and do all that but we'd be incapable of deciding what we ingest at that age? That seems... like a broken line of reasoning to me. I really do think it has to do with the damage that smoking can have to do the brain.

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              Octofox
              Link Parent
              You aren't meant to have kids at 18, Its just that you can't really ban it because its not an item you can keep from them. Getting a job and paying taxes is not a choice that will have life long...

              You aren't meant to have kids at 18, Its just that you can't really ban it because its not an item you can keep from them. Getting a job and paying taxes is not a choice that will have life long impacts.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                lionirdeadman
                Link Parent
                Yes you are. You can consent to it. It's not about "keeping it from them" otherwise you might as well say the age to have kids is 12. It's solely about decision making and consent.

                You aren't meant to have kids at 18, Its just that you can't really ban it because its not an item you can keep from them.

                Yes you are. You can consent to it. It's not about "keeping it from them" otherwise you might as well say the age to have kids is 12. It's solely about decision making and consent.

                2 votes
                1. Octofox
                  Link Parent
                  18 isn't the "age to have kids" its the age to have sex with the heavy expectation that you will use some form of protection to not have kids.

                  18 isn't the "age to have kids" its the age to have sex with the heavy expectation that you will use some form of protection to not have kids.

                  1 vote
          2. apoctr
            Link Parent
            Then it would also make sense to prevent them from making decisions such as joining the army and voting, of more significant importance, no? I think if you're preventing adults from taking actions...

            It does. The part of the brain that is last to develop is the frontal lobe. Which is the part that deals with judgment and decision making.

            Then it would also make sense to prevent them from making decisions such as joining the army and voting, of more significant importance, no? I think if you're preventing adults from taking actions through this reasoning, it'd be better to just make the legal age of adulthood 21.

            2 votes
    2. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. Octofox
        Link Parent
        Taking up smoking pretty much has a 100% chance of you costing the healthcare system a lot more so it makes sense that you should have to pay for that. Alcohol is different because its much more...

        Taking up smoking pretty much has a 100% chance of you costing the healthcare system a lot more so it makes sense that you should have to pay for that. Alcohol is different because its much more realistic to have the occasional beer with friends and have no long term health effects. In Australia its a lot more sane where everything is at 18

        2 votes
  3. mrbig
    Link
    I guess Uncle Sam only approves some ways to die.

    I guess Uncle Sam only approves some ways to die.

    2 votes