According to this I wouldn’t get my hopes up. I don’t think this relentless pursuit for this can be attributed to simple technical ignorance any longer. I hate to have lost so much faith in the EU...
I don’t think this relentless pursuit for this can be attributed to simple technical ignorance any longer. I hate to have lost so much faith in the EU over this, but I see little other explanation than are just as secretly/openly fascists as the rest of the corrupt political world these days.
while I think this "chat control" surveillance is absolute garbage and I deeply hope the EU Parliament will rightfully throw it out, I don't know if this issue is as simple as just calling it...
while I think this "chat control" surveillance is absolute garbage and I deeply hope the EU Parliament will rightfully throw it out, I don't know if this issue is as simple as just calling it fascism. In fact when I tried to use one of those websites for contacting your representatives about this issue, it helpfully showed me that one party in my country was already officially against the chat control laws -- that party being the one that's fascist enough that there are calls for them to be banned. This issue is politically complex and kind of orthogonal to the traditional right wing/left wing politics, and and some otherwise relatively progressive political parties absolutely embrace it for various reasons. That's part of why it's so insidious.
It's the same here, most of the representatives from the traditional governing parties (left and right) are blindly in favor and all smaller parties are against, including far right.
It's the same here, most of the representatives from the traditional governing parties (left and right) are blindly in favor and all smaller parties are against, including far right.
Yeah you are right, the word "fascism" gets thrown around a lot and it becomes hyperbole. To rephrase it a bit, for me it isn't really about left or right anymore, but the general political shift...
Yeah you are right, the word "fascism" gets thrown around a lot and it becomes hyperbole. To rephrase it a bit, for me it isn't really about left or right anymore, but the general political shift to more authoritarian politics. With a tendency for political parties to more top ruled, with party members having to fall behind the partyline ruled by the top. There is less room for nuance and especially with this surveillance thing, everything is just handled in a very shady manner with documents without names, backroom deals, politicians outright lying about what they are doing and an arrogant dismissing of any criticism as being a defense for criminals. So maybe not outright fascism, but a definite political shift that reduces the power of the people and centralizes it the top.
I'm usually not the type to police people for calling something fascist, especially in the current political climate, but my main concern is that calling this specifically fascism and describing...
I'm usually not the type to police people for calling something fascist, especially in the current political climate, but my main concern is that calling this specifically fascism and describing it as part of the current general trend towards fascism in Europe (which absolutely is a thing) gives parties that are undeniably fascist but oppose chat control (like the AfD here in Germany) a free pass, and it also doesn't paint an accurate picture of how involved mainstream centrist liberals are in these policies. Authoritarianism is not always or automatically fascism.
Yeah, I was wondering if this was that or if there had been a new development. Keep badgering your MEPs, the parliament can shoot this down if they want to.
Yeah, I was wondering if this was that or if there had been a new development.
Keep badgering your MEPs, the parliament can shoot this down if they want to.
I'm generally a very pro EU person but every time this topic comes up it's just a massive head scratcher. Variants of this have been around for I think a decade now; the ferocity with which...
I'm generally a very pro EU person but every time this topic comes up it's just a massive head scratcher. Variants of this have been around for I think a decade now; the ferocity with which someone is trying to get this pushed through is just surprising evry single time. I remember finishing high school and participating in e-mail campaigns to MEPs about this topic.
Also posted as a separate thread: https://tildes.net/~society/1rgc/reality_check_eu_council_chat_control_vote_is_not_a_retreat_but_a_green_light_for_indiscriminate
Finally… for now. See all the previous posts spanning literal years on this topic for why I don’t believe it’s gone for good, and why I’m giving it maybe six to twelve months until someone puts it...
Finally… for now.
See all the previous posts spanning literal years on this topic for why I don’t believe it’s gone for good, and why I’m giving it maybe six to twelve months until someone puts it on the agenda again.
You can also read here about what the law actually seeks to implement (as opposed to breaking E2EE in messenger apps).
As always with this topic, I dearly love the EU and its institutions, I just don’t get why they are/were so hellbent on pushing this stupid idea.
Agreed, governments trying to (effectively) outlaw encryption has been an evergreen issue for decades, so this is far from over. What we really need are laws proactively protecting encryption, or...
Agreed, governments trying to (effectively) outlaw encryption has been an evergreen issue for decades, so this is far from over. What we really need are laws proactively protecting encryption, or even better, enshrining basic principles of digital privacy into law.
According to this I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
I don’t think this relentless pursuit for this can be attributed to simple technical ignorance any longer. I hate to have lost so much faith in the EU over this, but I see little other explanation than are just as secretly/openly fascists as the rest of the corrupt political world these days.
while I think this "chat control" surveillance is absolute garbage and I deeply hope the EU Parliament will rightfully throw it out, I don't know if this issue is as simple as just calling it fascism. In fact when I tried to use one of those websites for contacting your representatives about this issue, it helpfully showed me that one party in my country was already officially against the chat control laws -- that party being the one that's fascist enough that there are calls for them to be banned. This issue is politically complex and kind of orthogonal to the traditional right wing/left wing politics, and and some otherwise relatively progressive political parties absolutely embrace it for various reasons. That's part of why it's so insidious.
It's the same here, most of the representatives from the traditional governing parties (left and right) are blindly in favor and all smaller parties are against, including far right.
Yeah you are right, the word "fascism" gets thrown around a lot and it becomes hyperbole. To rephrase it a bit, for me it isn't really about left or right anymore, but the general political shift to more authoritarian politics. With a tendency for political parties to more top ruled, with party members having to fall behind the partyline ruled by the top. There is less room for nuance and especially with this surveillance thing, everything is just handled in a very shady manner with documents without names, backroom deals, politicians outright lying about what they are doing and an arrogant dismissing of any criticism as being a defense for criminals. So maybe not outright fascism, but a definite political shift that reduces the power of the people and centralizes it the top.
I'm usually not the type to police people for calling something fascist, especially in the current political climate, but my main concern is that calling this specifically fascism and describing it as part of the current general trend towards fascism in Europe (which absolutely is a thing) gives parties that are undeniably fascist but oppose chat control (like the AfD here in Germany) a free pass, and it also doesn't paint an accurate picture of how involved mainstream centrist liberals are in these policies. Authoritarianism is not always or automatically fascism.
Yeah, I was wondering if this was that or if there had been a new development.
Keep badgering your MEPs, the parliament can shoot this down if they want to.
I'm generally a very pro EU person but every time this topic comes up it's just a massive head scratcher. Variants of this have been around for I think a decade now; the ferocity with which someone is trying to get this pushed through is just surprising evry single time. I remember finishing high school and participating in e-mail campaigns to MEPs about this topic.
It's truly baffling.
Also posted as a separate thread:
https://tildes.net/~society/1rgc/reality_check_eu_council_chat_control_vote_is_not_a_retreat_but_a_green_light_for_indiscriminate
Finally… for now.
See all the previous posts spanning literal years on this topic for why I don’t believe it’s gone for good, and why I’m giving it maybe six to twelve months until someone puts it on the agenda again.
You can also read here about what the law actually seeks to implement (as opposed to breaking E2EE in messenger apps).
As always with this topic, I dearly love the EU and its institutions, I just don’t get why they are/were so hellbent on pushing this stupid idea.
Agreed, governments trying to (effectively) outlaw encryption has been an evergreen issue for decades, so this is far from over. What we really need are laws proactively protecting encryption, or even better, enshrining basic principles of digital privacy into law.
But for now this is fantastic news!
How is anyone coming to this conclusion?