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Happy 4th to those in the states, family huh 🥃
Just got in a huge argument with my aunts and uncles who are engineers (I am as well) who don't believe climate change is real. Or as my chemical engineering aunt and my emissions engineering aunt put it "I don't believe carbon dioxide is a pollutant"
What are your guys family gathering stories?
My neighbors down the street always have a party for the 4th. Been coming to it every year for over 3 decades. Everybody just ate, having chill conversations. Pretty much everybody who reguarly attends has a good idea of acceptable topics, so there's not much controversy. I think a lot of people would find it pretty boring, but I really enjoy being able to catch up with everybody and talk about the things we enjoy as opposed to the things we're normally upset about.
I didn't bring it up, we got on the topic of energy generation, she brought up Carbon credits, I said I prefer a carbon tax to credits, she said she didn't belive that carbon dioxide is a pollutant.
I said I disagree and she was willing to let me state my case. I tried to take it step by step and asked her if carbon dioxide was a green house gas as a start , she gave me the run around for 15 mins before giving me "yes, but" it just spiraled out from there.
Strange that people can so readily dismiss reality.
I suppose they don't care because they will be mostly dead by the time anything happens that they cannot deny. Though, I find it callous, at best, to think that because it doesn't directly affect the speaker, that it shouldn't matter to them. One merely needs to extend a brief thought to other humans and their plight to see that anthropogenic climate change is currently having an effect upon the population and that affect will only worsen as we sit back and hope for a technological miracle to solve our problems.
Sad thing is she's a chemical engineer, she took chemistry courses.
If she made that comment in a chemistry class today she would be laughed out of the lecture hall.
I mean climate change is one thing but how do you debate someone who dismisses the fundamental facts upon which you build your argument.
Later she made a comment akin to climate change is a Chinese hoax and it alllllll kinda clicked in to place.
I guess their argument is that since the Chinese fully accept climate change as a reality, that China is ... telling everyone else to believe it? Because the world really wants to listen to what China says?
I guess if you are believing something that runs counter to reality, why not believe some more things of similar vein?
I believe the argument is China pushes climate change so we disrupt our economys switching green while they continue on coal and oil and beat us at the GDP game.
Never mind China is investing more than anyone in clean energy generation, that doesn't fit in with the narrative.
I understand that was the argument about 15 years ago, but as you rightfully point out, China is pushing clean energy and they are trying to phase out burning coal for heating in the winter, though the latter left people with no real alternative (it did end up improving air quality), so I wonder what will happen next winter?
That's a frustrating enough argument to have in private. Throwing it into a mix of a social gathering adds so many layers of difficulty. And to be clear, I'm not saying you should have handled it differently or anything of the sort. Just simpathizing. Those sorts of things arise organically, and have so much potential to go in bad directions. After reading through some of your other posts about the story, it sounds like you reasoned it out admirably given the situation.
I think part of my reason for my original comment about how idyllic this year's 4th went for me is precisely because I've been stuck in similar situations at gatherings way too many times. I guess I wanted to share the bit of euphoria I got from it because it felt like a rare thing. I didn't have the foresight to include that aspect in the original post, so hopefully it didn't come off as "I'm having a great time, why can't you?" sort of thing.
June and July are the months of many birthdays, so we have no need for these pesky holidays.
Last time I talked to my dad though, he told me that it's kids faults for being brought into the country by their parents. The conversation didn't last too long after that because I told him we needed to talk about something else and he decided to snidely comment about how tolerant I was being.
I get along with everyone else fine though. I keep in touch with a few 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins who are doing pretty well. The extended families is strangely tight, but those reunions are usually in August or Christmas Eve for each side.
What really bugs me is how much I looked up to my uncle till I got older and we started disagreeing, my opinion is respected as long as it meshes with his otherwise I'm just a "dirty liberal"
Sorry about your dad, mine just gets pissed that I can't get along with my uncle otherwise him and I are on really good terms
Not my family per se, but this is my first year not spending the 4th with my old group of high school friends. We didn't have any crazy traditions or anything, we'd just bring out blankets to the soccer field on the edge of town and watch the fireworks. It's hard watching these friendships fade and break apart. I miss them.
We live in lonely times.
Parting ways with old groups is rough digs for sure. That sounds like a nice tradition, and worth missing, but I'll drink to you finding new friends with whom to make new traditions. Happy 4th dude! (Oh, I guess it's the 5th here now.)
I've never had family gatherings for July 4, only for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, and even then only when we still lived near the rest of our family. I've always reserved it as a day for the celebration of summer and relaxing; contrary to what I think most people think, I don't think politics or nationalism are appropriate for it (although to be fair I'm not really a nationalistic guy at any time of the year). If I were founding a country, the last thing I'd want the anniversary to become is a day of conflict and stress...
I really tried for it not to spiral into this shit, I was guarded for my one uncle, wasn't ready for my other aunt.
It doesn't help that they don't argue in good faith, my aunt wanted me to there at the table prove climate change to her and her rebuff for any evidence was "it's to complex to accurately model therefor climate change doesn't exist" add in drinking since noon and it just spiraled out of control.
It's insanely complex to model reacting flow combustion. Thank goodness fire doesn't exist, just made my thesis muccccch easier.
I did not spend the 4th with family. I spent it with friends. There was food and alcohol and a generally good time.