22 votes

A West Virginia judge largely denied Amazon's motion to dismiss lawsuit over selling a spycam disguised as a bathroom hook

Posted by boxer_dogs_dance
Tags: amazon, usa.wv, legal, lawsuits, judges, cameras.spy, retail.online, author.ashley belanger, source.ars technica
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/amazon-faces-trial-after-selling-bathroom-spycam-used-to-abuse-minor/

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Title
Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
Authors
Ashley Belanger
Published
Dec 4 2023
Word count
814 words

14 comments

  1. [2]
    AugustusFerdinand
    Link
    Oh no... people might not be able to -checks notes- get spied on without their permission in a private place such as a bathroom!

    Tech legal expert Eric Goldman wrote that a victory for the plaintiff could be considered "a dangerous ruling for the spy cam industry and for Amazon," because "the court’s analysis could indicate that all surreptitious hook cameras are categorically illegal to sell." That could prevent completely legal uses of cameras designed to look like clothes hooks, Goldman wrote, such as hypothetical in-home surveillance uses.

    Oh no... people might not be able to -checks notes- get spied on without their permission in a private place such as a bathroom!

    28 votes
    1. rosco
      Link Parent
      The language is hilarious.

      a dangerous ruling for the spy cam industry

      The language is hilarious.

      3 votes
  2. [12]
    Minori
    Link
    If these devices are currently legal to sell, I don't understand how Amazon has any liability? Even if sales of these devices should be restricted, that's not Amazon's place to decide in my opinion.

    If these devices are currently legal to sell, I don't understand how Amazon has any liability? Even if sales of these devices should be restricted, that's not Amazon's place to decide in my opinion.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      dirthawker
      Link Parent
      I think the key issue was their approval of the product description. Let's pretend that the product being sold is a hammer. Great product, very useful, 100% legal for anyone to own, even minors....

      I think the key issue was their approval of the product description. Let's pretend that the product being sold is a hammer. Great product, very useful, 100% legal for anyone to own, even minors. However in this case the hammer is being advertised as a weapon to kneecap people who owe you money, or maybe even bash in a skull or two. Amazon approves this description as a completely above board use of the product. That's really a problem.

      21 votes
      1. [2]
        mild_takes
        Link Parent
        Here's an amazon listing for a similar (the same?) camera and the second photo shows it with a towel hanging on it and a loofa next to it.

        Here's an amazon listing for a similar (the same?) camera and the second photo shows it with a towel hanging on it and a loofa next to it.

        5 votes
        1. frailtomato
          Link Parent
          Coming from a country that doesn't really use the word loofa...I unfortunately think of Bill O'Reilly on the rare occasions I see it used.

          Coming from a country that doesn't really use the word loofa...I unfortunately think of Bill O'Reilly on the rare occasions I see it used.

    2. [8]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      These articles might help https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/05/amazon_camera_hook_case_proceeds/...

      These articles might help https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/05/amazon_camera_hook_case_proceeds/

      https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/12/amazon-may-be-liable-for-merchants-spycam-m-s-v-amazon.htm

      6 votes
      1. [7]
        Minori
        Link Parent
        From your second link: I get the issue with marketing the camera for illegal uses. I'm just iffy on a court ruling that all hook spycams are categorically illegal. I can imagine someone using a...

        From your second link:

        The court’s analysis could indicate that all surreptitious hook cameras are categorically illegal to sell, even when buyers plan to use it completely legally. That makes this a dangerous ruling for the spycam industry and for Amazon.

        I get the issue with marketing the camera for illegal uses. I'm just iffy on a court ruling that all hook spycams are categorically illegal. I can imagine someone using a coat hook camera for perfectly legal reasons.

        5 votes
        1. boxer_dogs_dance
          Link Parent
          It will likely be appealed for any outcome unfavorable to Amazon, but sending a message that this massive market needs to pay attention and not let vendors advertise methods to do crime seems like...

          It will likely be appealed for any outcome unfavorable to Amazon, but sending a message that this massive market needs to pay attention and not let vendors advertise methods to do crime seems like a good idea to me.

          8 votes
        2. [5]
          PuddleOfKittens
          Link Parent
          I can imagine having a rock of crack cocaine as a showpiece would be a great conversation starter.

          I can imagine someone using a coat hook camera for perfectly legal reasons.

          I can imagine having a rock of crack cocaine as a showpiece would be a great conversation starter.

          6 votes
          1. [4]
            unkz
            Link Parent
            I mean I don’t think selling or owning a rock of crack cocaine should be illegal.

            I mean I don’t think selling or owning a rock of crack cocaine should be illegal.

            2 votes
            1. [3]
              PuddleOfKittens
              Link Parent
              A nuke, then? Conversation starter.

              A nuke, then? Conversation starter.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                unkz
                Link Parent
                Well, I can’t think of any legal uses for a personal nuke, and in this case I don’t think the law is out of step with ethics. Although tbh I am having a little difficulty imagining a scenario...

                Well, I can’t think of any legal uses for a personal nuke, and in this case I don’t think the law is out of step with ethics.

                Although tbh I am having a little difficulty imagining a scenario where a bathroom camera has a valid use. Maybe getting evidence of abuse of someone who is disabled to the point where they are not able to communicate and there is some suspicion but no proof? It’s a stretch.

                1 vote
                1. PuddleOfKittens
                  Link Parent
                  It has huge symbolic value. That's why it's such a great conversation piece and dining room table.

                  Well, I can’t think of any legal uses for a personal nuke

                  It has huge symbolic value. That's why it's such a great conversation piece and dining room table.