I despise that it's almost impossible to get a "dumb" TV anymore. I just want a large, quality screen that I can plug my own media devices into. The Vizio I ended up getting basically forces you...
I despise that it's almost impossible to get a "dumb" TV anymore. I just want a large, quality screen that I can plug my own media devices into.
The Vizio I ended up getting basically forces you to opt in to the data collection described in the article. Attempting to opt-out just results in the "Accept the data monitoring policy" screen popping up any time you hit the home screen, which is nearly impossible to completely avoid...I tried for a day and a half before giving up. Of course, the Accept button is the one highlighted, so with 2 accidental button clicks, you've opted in to an unprecedented level of data collection. Further, there was no way to say "Opt-out and never prompt again"
I was too lazy to setup a pi-hole before, but especially after this article going to start blocking as much telemetry as possible on my whole network.
Why do you even have to go "home" on the TV? If you want a dumb display, all you need to use is the power button and the input button. If you want to go further, you can get an hdmi switch and...
Why do you even have to go "home" on the TV? If you want a dumb display, all you need to use is the power button and the input button. If you want to go further, you can get an hdmi switch and just use the power button. My parents have a Samsung smart TV, and this works just fine for them. The TV has never even had an ip address in its life. A chrome cast has enough smart features for 95% of people and a fire stick or roku has enough for everyone else.
I'll spell out my scenario in more detail. This gets long, but I think I get to a point eventually. My prior TV was a 1080p Vizio Smart TV from ~ 7 years ago. It functioned as a "dumb" TV as you...
I'll spell out my scenario in more detail. This gets long, but I think I get to a point eventually.
My prior TV was a 1080p Vizio Smart TV from ~ 7 years ago. It functioned as a "dumb" TV as you describe. I plugged 1 HDMI device into it (stereo), and after turning on CEC, was able to use the stock remote to control every one of my devices from a chromecast to a raspberry pi. I could switch inputs on the stereo via that remote because CEC detected each input of the stereo as a separate device, as it should.
With the new TV, they cut every bit of functionality from CEC other than ARC and volume control. The TV doesn't pass on any of the other buttons that worked on the old TV (arrows, ok, back, exit, cc), and the new remote flat out removed all playback control buttons. Universal remotes also don't work, because the TV won't pass on any other signals through CEC other than the volume control. This was actually the second TV I attempted this with...the Samsung TV that I tried to use in the same manner had even more problems....they only support CEC with other Samsung devices, which renders it virtually useless. I connected the TV to internet in order to download updates, hoping it would fix things (surprise, no significant changes).
So I was faced with a dilemma to get things working: I could massively re-structure my entertainment system, or embrace the "smart tv" which would mostly solve the CEC problem they created. Turns out, you CAN use the smart TV without opting in, getting chromecast, netflix, amazon prime and a few other things working without opting in. However, they made it exceptionally easy to return to the home screen (hit exit or back too many times when in a working app, hit the home button next to the volume button, probably more I forget). Whenever that happened, you got prompted to opt-in again, and none of the buttons other than arrows and "ok" would function until you accepted or rejected.
And fundamentally, that's the problem. There are laws that say that users must opt-in to data collection, and in response the manufacturers make it as hard as possible to opt-out. The law should stipulate that no functionality is disabled by opting out, and that opting in can only be prompted a limited number of times. Without those stipulations in place, they've created a device that follows the letter of the law, but in practice doesn't meaningfully provide an option to opt-out, which grossly violates the spirit of the law.
A universal remote should still work. I don't use CEC whatsoever, and have a smart tv that I completely bypass using an HDMI switch. The HDMI switch has a remote of its own, so I just programmed...
A universal remote should still work. I don't use CEC whatsoever, and have a smart tv that I completely bypass using an HDMI switch. The HDMI switch has a remote of its own, so I just programmed the universal remote to change inputs via the HDMI switch, not the TV.
The only signal I ever send my TV is power on and power off. Volume is controlled on the soundbar, inputs are controlled on the HDMI switch, and everything else is done through the roku, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Steam Link, etc.
But you see, what you described is the entire reason CEC was standardized in the first place. My stereo functions essentially the same as your HDMI switch does. With my old setup, I had (at...
But you see, what you described is the entire reason CEC was standardized in the first place. My stereo functions essentially the same as your HDMI switch does.
With my old setup, I had (at various times) an Xbox, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Steam Link, Chromecast, and a Raspberry Pi. All would automatically power on the rest of the system (Stereo and TV) when they were turned on, and automatically change to correct input. So if I wanted to use the Steam link, I just picked up the Steam controller and turned it on, even if my entire syste intentional design decision to force you into data collectionm was off. My PS4 was a fancy media server...I never used the PS4 controller (kept nearby for guests). The stock TV remote would navigate the menus and control media fine. The raspberry pi hooked up ran Home Assistant, so I was able to do control my entertainment system via CEC in conjunction with other smart home stuff. If I forgot to turn off the devices when I was done using them, when I went to turn off the TV, the power off signal would propagate to all the client devices to turn them off as well.
It might seem complicated, but all it took was to enable CEC via 1 setting on each device... and it all just worked (exception being the Pi took some tweaking to work as I wanted....but that's not exactly a consumer device). Anybody could use any part of my entertainment system with two instructions: Turn on the controller for the device you want, and use TV remote to adjust volume.
CEC is a cross-vendor technology that is incredibly useful....it worked with every HDMI device I used. And since I have a stereo doing most of the heavy lifting still, some of it still works as intended. But it's no longer a seamless, easy to use experience. And the fact that it worked flawlessly on a 7 year old midrange TV, but is horribly crippled on a newer (and higher end) TV from the same vendor, suggests that this was a business decision to cripple existing functionality to reduce interoperability and tie you into their data collection scheme.
It's interesting to me that hdmi cec ever worked that well. I am glad that you got a few years with that experience. It really sounds nice. I have never had cec work properly. I have a setup with...
It's interesting to me that hdmi cec ever worked that well. I am glad that you got a few years with that experience. It really sounds nice. I have never had cec work properly.
I have a setup with a Logitech harmony hub. It has a truly universal remote that still works with the TV cabinet closed. You can evenhave the remote in a different room if it's close enough to the hub. All the manufacturer remotes stay closed in a drawer.
It sounds like a dumb TV isn't really what you wanted. You wanted a slightly smart TV. A modern smart TV functions either as a full smart TV or as a dumb hdmi display, but not as a slightly smart TV.
I despise that it's almost impossible to get a "dumb" TV anymore. I just want a large, quality screen that I can plug my own media devices into.
The Vizio I ended up getting basically forces you to opt in to the data collection described in the article. Attempting to opt-out just results in the "Accept the data monitoring policy" screen popping up any time you hit the home screen, which is nearly impossible to completely avoid...I tried for a day and a half before giving up. Of course, the Accept button is the one highlighted, so with 2 accidental button clicks, you've opted in to an unprecedented level of data collection. Further, there was no way to say "Opt-out and never prompt again"
I was too lazy to setup a pi-hole before, but especially after this article going to start blocking as much telemetry as possible on my whole network.
Why do you even have to go "home" on the TV? If you want a dumb display, all you need to use is the power button and the input button. If you want to go further, you can get an hdmi switch and just use the power button. My parents have a Samsung smart TV, and this works just fine for them. The TV has never even had an ip address in its life. A chrome cast has enough smart features for 95% of people and a fire stick or roku has enough for everyone else.
I'll spell out my scenario in more detail. This gets long, but I think I get to a point eventually.
My prior TV was a 1080p Vizio Smart TV from ~ 7 years ago. It functioned as a "dumb" TV as you describe. I plugged 1 HDMI device into it (stereo), and after turning on CEC, was able to use the stock remote to control every one of my devices from a chromecast to a raspberry pi. I could switch inputs on the stereo via that remote because CEC detected each input of the stereo as a separate device, as it should.
With the new TV, they cut every bit of functionality from CEC other than ARC and volume control. The TV doesn't pass on any of the other buttons that worked on the old TV (arrows, ok, back, exit, cc), and the new remote flat out removed all playback control buttons. Universal remotes also don't work, because the TV won't pass on any other signals through CEC other than the volume control. This was actually the second TV I attempted this with...the Samsung TV that I tried to use in the same manner had even more problems....they only support CEC with other Samsung devices, which renders it virtually useless. I connected the TV to internet in order to download updates, hoping it would fix things (surprise, no significant changes).
So I was faced with a dilemma to get things working: I could massively re-structure my entertainment system, or embrace the "smart tv" which would mostly solve the CEC problem they created. Turns out, you CAN use the smart TV without opting in, getting chromecast, netflix, amazon prime and a few other things working without opting in. However, they made it exceptionally easy to return to the home screen (hit exit or back too many times when in a working app, hit the home button next to the volume button, probably more I forget). Whenever that happened, you got prompted to opt-in again, and none of the buttons other than arrows and "ok" would function until you accepted or rejected.
And fundamentally, that's the problem. There are laws that say that users must opt-in to data collection, and in response the manufacturers make it as hard as possible to opt-out. The law should stipulate that no functionality is disabled by opting out, and that opting in can only be prompted a limited number of times. Without those stipulations in place, they've created a device that follows the letter of the law, but in practice doesn't meaningfully provide an option to opt-out, which grossly violates the spirit of the law.
A universal remote should still work. I don't use CEC whatsoever, and have a smart tv that I completely bypass using an HDMI switch. The HDMI switch has a remote of its own, so I just programmed the universal remote to change inputs via the HDMI switch, not the TV.
The only signal I ever send my TV is power on and power off. Volume is controlled on the soundbar, inputs are controlled on the HDMI switch, and everything else is done through the roku, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Steam Link, etc.
But you see, what you described is the entire reason CEC was standardized in the first place. My stereo functions essentially the same as your HDMI switch does.
With my old setup, I had (at various times) an Xbox, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Steam Link, Chromecast, and a Raspberry Pi. All would automatically power on the rest of the system (Stereo and TV) when they were turned on, and automatically change to correct input. So if I wanted to use the Steam link, I just picked up the Steam controller and turned it on, even if my entire syste intentional design decision to force you into data collectionm was off. My PS4 was a fancy media server...I never used the PS4 controller (kept nearby for guests). The stock TV remote would navigate the menus and control media fine. The raspberry pi hooked up ran Home Assistant, so I was able to do control my entertainment system via CEC in conjunction with other smart home stuff. If I forgot to turn off the devices when I was done using them, when I went to turn off the TV, the power off signal would propagate to all the client devices to turn them off as well.
It might seem complicated, but all it took was to enable CEC via 1 setting on each device... and it all just worked (exception being the Pi took some tweaking to work as I wanted....but that's not exactly a consumer device). Anybody could use any part of my entertainment system with two instructions: Turn on the controller for the device you want, and use TV remote to adjust volume.
CEC is a cross-vendor technology that is incredibly useful....it worked with every HDMI device I used. And since I have a stereo doing most of the heavy lifting still, some of it still works as intended. But it's no longer a seamless, easy to use experience. And the fact that it worked flawlessly on a 7 year old midrange TV, but is horribly crippled on a newer (and higher end) TV from the same vendor, suggests that this was a business decision to cripple existing functionality to reduce interoperability and tie you into their data collection scheme.
It's interesting to me that hdmi cec ever worked that well. I am glad that you got a few years with that experience. It really sounds nice. I have never had cec work properly.
I have a setup with a Logitech harmony hub. It has a truly universal remote that still works with the TV cabinet closed. You can evenhave the remote in a different room if it's close enough to the hub. All the manufacturer remotes stay closed in a drawer.
It sounds like a dumb TV isn't really what you wanted. You wanted a slightly smart TV. A modern smart TV functions either as a full smart TV or as a dumb hdmi display, but not as a slightly smart TV.
My PS4, Switch, and Apple TV are all capable of powering off my LG over HDMI-CEC. I touch my LG remote maybe once a month.