So I kind of want to get out of the Gmail ecosystem, and have been eyeing Proton as a good replacement, but I can't help but to think that nearly all of Proton's selling points and marketing points are all smoke and mirrors.

And I don't know, maybe I'm looking at this entirely the wrong way, I am just really struggling to see the appeal of Proton.

First, I'll start with my "threat model".

In general I want to be more anonymous online and slip under the radar better.

I'm not planning on doing anything clandestine, but with the direction the US is going, I'd rather not be an easy target if I want to be active in activism spaces if you catch my drift.

And I'm also interested in staying off of databrokers radars, or obfuscate myself to prevent coherent tracking.

With that being said, it seems that even with a proton email if someone wanted to find my identity they could, data brokers or governments alike, even if I pay for my subscription with cash.

And not that I'm really worried about that, but to me that negates like the entirety of Proton's marketing gimmick.

And I'm failing to see what functional benefit Proton has when it comes to privacy outside of just being "aesthetically private".

Here are some of my concerns, please feel free to correct me if I'm completely offbase with any of the logic below, but this is just my initial thoughts, and I'd love to hear some feedback and/or be corrected or provided more context.

1. Why does the encryption of the message body matter if the envelope and address are is still exposed? If a government or data broker can get the sender/receiver info, timestamps, and my IP, they have a map of my life. Isn't the "private content" just a distraction from the real leak? Like other than not having my emails used to train AI or data being sold to data brokers, I can't find a functional improvement or benefit to my daily life to use Proton outside of thinking "Yeah, fuck The Man" every time I log in. Like I am more worried about governments and data brokers knowing who I'm sending/receiving things from than I am about the content of those messages being exposed since I'm not going to be monologuing evil plans over email, and I really don't care if the databroker tracking me knows that I bought a case of liquid death root beer 4 times in one month since they get that information from Amazon or whatever website anyways.

2. Everyone talks about "Swiss protection," but isn't that just a speed bump? If the U.S. government goes to Switzerland with an MLAT request, Proton has to comply. And even if I've payed with cash, they can still be compelled to log the IP logins and hand over the alias emails and primary mailbox used by that account and the metadata. So if I sign up for something using an alias, they can take that alias and file an MLAT request with Switzerland to get my main email, the metadata for my entire inbox(just not the body content) and the other aliases tied to that account, and then do a search for any services using those emails to find my identity. They could technically use an alias email I've made, send an information request to Switzerland/Proton, get back a list of aliases and email metadata, find that I used an alias to sign up to a pizza delivery service, then subpoena that pizza delivery service for my name, phone number, and address, at that point what's the point? Is the point just to make it harder for them? I'm not planning on doing anything that could get them to want to subpoena my emails ANYWAYS, but what's the point of making it harder for them outside of again, just thinking to myself "haha fuck you" every time I send an email?

3. Even if I use an alias, if the site I use the alias on gets tied to my online data/identity, then my privacy is broken, right? Like lets say I want to sign up for a new site called godotshaders.com, I use a proton alias to sign up. This site then collects that data, my IP, my cookie data, browser user agent string data, and that I'm logged into some account with my other non-proton email, etc, that gets tied to my browsing data they're collecting, and suddenly they've linked that alias email to my advertising profile and other browsing. Rinse & repeat. Now all the aliases are tied to me. I don't see how these emails help with online advertising tracking.

4. I have tons of accounts I use, my bitwarden login count sits at around 850 logins, but I probably only regularly use a small fraction of those. But if I end up changing my email on a lot of those accounts to the proton email, even a proton alias, all that does for data brokers is potentially tie every one of those new alias emails to me. And at that point there is no difference in my data broker information just that I have 850 different alias emails. But my data is still tied to those accounts. So AGAIN, what's the point of this? Do I need to sign up for everything from scratch in order to maybe have privacy?

Hey there Tildes, hopefully someone could help me with this. I'm having problems importing all my emails I exported from ProtonMail into macOS Mail app/iCloud.

Recently decided to move my custom domain email addresses to iCloud so I could just use the built-in Mail app on my Mac and iPhone. I backed up all of my emails with ProtonMail's own export tool. It exported every email (or maybe email thread?) as a .eml file and .json file (metadata I believe). After exporting, I switch the domain names over to iCloud. It was pretty easy. I guess I assumed all of my emails would somehow come with me? Seems silly thinking about it now. But I have a backup of all my emails!

All seemed fine until I tried to import them into macOS Mail. Mail wants a mailbox format (.mbox I believe), but I only have .eml files. It let me select all of the .eml files and import them anyway but it's taking about 10 seconds or more per email and I have like ~17,000 emails. ChatGPT says thats 47 hours 13 minutes 20 seconds. It's also freezing the mail app during this insane import process. It would be great if I didn't have to wait that long and that's assuming something doesn't go wrong/the app crashes.

No, I don't need all of those emails (I actually deleted about 10,000 over the past month) but now I'm kind of screwed. I guess for security reasons, when you delete the domain from ProtonMail, it deletes all the emails (as far as I can tell, at least). I'm mentioning this because I was thinking I could have tried to find a way to export it in .mbox format or even delete more emails but it's too late for that.

The way the emails were exported, the filenames are jumbles of letters and numbers so I cant even use Finder to search for specific emails when I need them. I can open each individual email in Mail, so it's not like the files are encrypted, I don't think.

One thing I thought of -- I once used Mail with ProtonBridge that would allow you to use ProtonMail with the Mail app, but still use Proton servers and it synced all my emails with my computer. I disabled that account some time ago (didn't delete it or remove it completely from the list of accounts, just unchecked it). Do you think that directory of emails is still on my computer somewhere? And would it be useable in my situation?

I do realize this is completely of my own doing and should have been more thoughtful but I'm here now and would love any help y'all could give. Thanks everyone!

Edit_1: Oh no... I found the directory for Mail in Application Support and it looks like the Mail importer is making a mailbox for every single email. I tried importing these emails earlier today and it looks like it might have imported everything? Here's a screenshot. 🪦

I wonder if I could try and import them into another app and then export in a better format? Thunderbird? Ugh, I really do need a lot of these emails…

Edit_2: So the export tool mentioned above has a restore feature so currently trying that. It will just import these emails back into ProtonMail and I’ll have to figure out the export part again. Hopefully this works!

Hello everyone! I have been currently debating switching email providers. I have been with Proton for a few years now (free user), but I have become increasingly disappointed. Firstly, I am not exactly a fan of the “we have apps for everything” model, particularly the integration of a password manager is just strange and the crypto wallet feels a bit nauseating, as I have my reservations about cryptocurrency. Consolidating all of my services in a company such as Proton feels misguided if the goal is to avoid walled gardens from the tech giants. There are also some other more recent things that have come up in relation to Proton that just make me question the legitimacy of Proton's “guiding moral imperative” as a privacy focussed company.

Moving on from that, I have mostly settled on two options due to their

• low cost
• generally adequate security (I understand email's limitations on this front, I just want something to be secure enough)
• transparency reports
• location of operation

The main thing I am struggling with here are the pros and cons between the two platforms.

Posteo seems to be less ideal of an email provider because they do not support ARC and lack a good DMARC policy. BUT they claim to support encryption with their calendars, but does this even matter if you are accessing the calendars with CalDAV (which I do not beliece is an E2EE connection)?

I think I trust Mailbox.org more when it comes to security, but I think their contacts / calendar situation is somewhat worse, and their French translation seems … lacking in spots (not that it matters to me much, but still is somewhat jarring for me).

I could just ignore the contacts/calendar problem, and use something like EteSync, but that would become just another thing to pay for, and another app to operate (if I need to use the WebDav bridge).

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated, I am really hoping this inspires some interesting conversations! And of course, feel free to tell me about better options if I have overlooked something. Have a lovely day :)

Hi,

I saw that Proton now has a Family Plan that includes all of their services including mail, calendar, drive, etc.

I've been looking to detach my and my family's life a bit from the big corps like Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Proton sounds interesting.

At the same time I am wondering if they're really to be trusted any more than any other company. I found some critique of the E2E encryption being basically snake oil and not properly implemented etc. I am of course aware that there're always tradeoffs and while privacy is definitely nice, I don't need to go to an extreme degree of "no logs whatsoever, never even turning anything over to the police", I think I am just mostly looking to make me and my family less of a product of advertising, possibly AI/ML and so on, so some compromise is definitely possible.

I am curious, does anyone here have any experience with or opinions on the company and their products?