15
votes
In conversation: Penn Jillette
Link information
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- Title
- Penn Jillette on Magic and the Alleged Trump Celebrity Apprentice Tapes
- Authors
- David Marchese, Bobby Doherty
- Published
- Aug 14 2018
- Word count
- 5567 words
I found this part very interesting:
That is a delightfully aware section that just reaffirms my belief that Penn is an all around decent human with a great understanding for many things.
I did as well.
@demifiend shares some good insights about men on the political right in a different thread that may interest you:
https://tildes.net/~life/4xh/after_charlottesville_solving_the_problem_of_angry_men_what_does_healthy_masculinity_look_like#comment-1eyh
I hadn't seen that thread. Thanks!
Thanks. It helps that I've been there. (Though not as a Nazi. One must have some standards.)
It is perhaps the most succinct and clear explanation of why identity politics is poisonous that I've read and something I've struggled to put into words. To be transparent, I'm a left kind of guy who votes D consistently and has read up on communism and libertarian and a lot of other -isms. I really wish more folks on the left would read and understand your comment.
I should refine and expand it into a blog post. Of course, once I do somebody will ask me why I posted it on my own website instead of putting it on Medium, and the only answer I'll have will be, "Because Ev Williams doesn't pay me to put up with Medium's bullshit."
(Which is the only reason I need, TBH.)
I seen that site "Medium" around and used for blogs but never paid much attention. What's your personal website (if you don't mind sharing)?
I sent you the URL via DM.
I dunno. I don't find any version of "I have a black friend" particularly compelling. There's a disconnect between how someone sees themselves and what they actually think. I'm sure there are 'non-homophobic people' who want to treat trans women as men. I'm sure there are 'non-bigoted people' who think Muslims are outwardly nice so they can get close enough to kill you.
I think getting people (all people) to at least acknowledge their fleeting or ingrained bigotry is more important than pretending our subconscious prejudices don't exist, especially more important than allowing our "one friend" to be used as cover for our ugly opinions of other people.
This isn't a case of someone using "I have black friends!" as a defense for their racism. Penn is just pointing out that there are Trump supporters who don't fit the broad strokes of how Democrats often portray Trump supporters. He could've used a better example, sure.
I get what he's saying, but I still disagree. We're all at least a little deplorable and we should spend more time wrestling with that instead of planting our feet and insisting that we're not.
I don't disagree, but that's not really what he's talking about.
Sure, insisting other people do this is however not a vote winner if they're not ready to.
I believe this is called stereotyping, something the left fiercely looks down upon. Don't you realize that close to a third of Republicans don't fit the generalization? Seems this is exactly what Penn is talking about.
LGBT rights are not a be-all-end-all issue for every single voter. Try to see past that. If you think they should be, that's a completely different discussion.
If we could cast separate votes for each individual issue that comes up in politics, I think you'd have a stronger argument. Unfortunately we have to vote for baskets A or B.
Want to blame someone for choosing basket B because it contained stance X? Okay, go for it. Want to blame someone for choosing basket B because it contained stance Y but also happened to contain stance X? Well, no, I can't agree. That's lazy and lacks integrity.
If you're going to call someone a homophobe, it's on you to make sure they are one. If they aren't and you call them a homophobe anyway, don't be surprised when they have no sympathy for your cause.
There are other issues in politics that do affect me, and I am affected when LGBT voters vote for politicians who are pro-LGBT but maybe stand against my interests in other areas. Good on them, I don't blame them for it---that's the point!
Just piggy-backing on this thread; there are mathematical models (I'm sorry I can't find the paper right now) showing how this partisanism and polarization is an inevitable consequence of two-party, first-past-the-post politics. This is not to say that similar things don't happen in other systems, but that they will always happen in a system like the US one.
I've always found Penn Jillette to be an interesting person, and while I don't always agree with him, I find he has generally thought through his opinions and I can at least respect that he's not just firing off random thoughts at the world. He's a self-described libertarian, but he's not what I would typically expect from one, as shown below in this quote from the interview:
I wish more people were willing to question the basis of their beliefs like this. It's good to look at the 'why?' of an ideology and try to find a way to accomplish it in a realistic way. It's also important to be able to admit an ideology may not have all the answers, and modify it to fit reality. I hope there are more like Penn Jillette out there that can build bridges between ideas and are willing to compromise to benefit everyone instead of picking a side and ignoring all arguments henceforth.
He's always someone I've admired as well.
His old podcast helped me keep my sanity whilst working a boring ass job at a ski resort. It didn't change my opinions about libertarianism in general but his intellectual honesty was engaging.
This was a fascinating interview, thank you for posting. I suppose I didn't realize that Penn never went to college, he seems like a real smart guy.
Well he did go to Clown College...but hardly a liberal arts education (or perhaps the MOST liberal)