Tenlock's recent activity

  1. The most forgotten rule of Tildes, and why I'm leaving

    I considered sending this only as a PM to Deimos, but since it actually involves the community and Deimos has no real control over it, I think it's better suited as a public post. Users are always...

    I considered sending this only as a PM to Deimos, but since it actually involves the community and Deimos has no real control over it, I think it's better suited as a public post.

    Users are always quick to point to the "paradox of tolerance" clause in the Tildes vision:

    Tildes will not be a victim of the paradox of tolerance; my philosophy is closer to "if your website's full of assholes, it's your fault".

    But I believe there's an even more important clause, right in the actual Tildes Docs:

    If people treat each other in good faith and apply charitable interpretations, everyone's experience improves. (emphasis mine)

    A lot of users here, including some well-known power users, are quick to call "Hate!" where there is no actual hate. Controversial statements are quickly interpreted to their most extreme. Yes, there have been some hateful incidents here and I won't deny that, but a lot of well-meaning discussions are lumped into the mix and shut down because they might lead to hate or because they are associated with hate.

    Honest discussions, political or otherwise, can't be had in a climate like this. Echo chamber, hivemind, circlejerk... call it whatever, but that's where things are heading.

    For the record, I absolutely agree with this part of the Tildes vision, as written by Deimos:

    I believe that it's possible to support the ability to freely discuss important and controversial topics without also being obligated to allow threats, harassment, and hate speech.

    Threats, harassment, and hate speech have no place anywhere. But sadly, instead of supporting controversial topics as written, it seems certain topics will have no place here because they are controversial. Tildes right now is not the Tildes we were promised, and seems to be veering further away by the day.

    If this is the Tildes everyone wants, that's fine of course. But to me, it's no better than Reddit.

    46 votes
  2. Comment on To a select minority of less than ten people: please stop getting judo'ed into defending white supremacy in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    There's a huge difference between "Ban all political discussions because they tend to get messy" and "Ban discussion about this particular thing because I don't think it's a tenable position."...

    There's a huge difference between "Ban all political discussions because they tend to get messy" and "Ban discussion about this particular thing because I don't think it's a tenable position." Sure, it's not an either-or situation, but it definitely sounds like you're very close to the latter end of the spectrum.

    In general, the wider the ban category, the less likely it's influenced by bias and therefore easier to defend:

    • "Ban all politics" -- Great! Makes sense!
    • "Ban all identity politics" -- Hmm, that sucks but is reasonable.
    • "Ban all discussion about gender wage gap" -- Uhhh, what? That's weird.

    I don't think we should be allowed to decide which positions are debatable or not. If we're going to ban something, pull back and ban the category.

    3 votes
  3. Comment on To a select minority of less than ten people: please stop getting judo'ed into defending white supremacy in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    "Debatable" is a subjective measure. You want political discussion, but only on the topics you deem worthy.

    so long as it’s actually debatable

    "Debatable" is a subjective measure. You want political discussion, but only on the topics you deem worthy.

    5 votes
  4. Comment on To a select minority of less than ten people: please stop getting judo'ed into defending white supremacy in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    You have my vote.

    Pure politics should be banned here.

    You have my vote.

    1 vote
  5. Comment on To a select minority of less than ten people: please stop getting judo'ed into defending white supremacy in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    You don't seem to realize that this is the problem---not the banning of trolls, but the identification of them. How easy is it to label any dissenter a "troll", ban them, and walk away with a smug...

    ban trolls

    You don't seem to realize that this is the problem---not the banning of trolls, but the identification of them. How easy is it to label any dissenter a "troll", ban them, and walk away with a smug smile? Not everyone who holds a controversial stance is a troll.

    6 votes
  6. Comment on There's Something Fundamentally Wrong with Cupcakes in ~food

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    Listen... just give me a muffin with buttercream frosting, the best of all worlds...

    Listen... just give me a muffin with buttercream frosting, the best of all worlds...

    3 votes
  7. Comment on Trump speechwriter fired amid scrutiny of appearance with white nationalists in ~news

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    That's fair, and I'm personally against celebrity worship. Maybe I'm reading the statements too generously.

    That's fair, and I'm personally against celebrity worship. Maybe I'm reading the statements too generously.

    2 votes
  8. Comment on Trump speechwriter fired amid scrutiny of appearance with white nationalists in ~news

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    Tbh it doesn't sound too culty the other way around.

    "It was the honor of my life to serve in the Obama Administration. I love President Obama, who is a fearless American hero, and continue to support him one hundred percent."

    Tbh it doesn't sound too culty the other way around.

    4 votes
  9. Comment on Which Patreons do you support and why? in ~talk

    Tenlock
    Link
    The only one I've ever supported is Primitive Technology because it's truly special: educational, on a topic that few people really explore, on a topic that I'm personally drawn to, no fluff, no...

    The only one I've ever supported is Primitive Technology because it's truly special: educational, on a topic that few people really explore, on a topic that I'm personally drawn to, no fluff, no speaking at all, well-produced, and authentic. It's the first time I came across a creator and knew I'd be sad if the channel closed down. Plus, it's very comfortable watching.

    19 votes
  10. Which Patreons do you support and why?

    According to Graphtreon, there are some crazy popular Patreon campaigns. The top creator has over 37,000 patrons and the runner-up creator has over 23,000 patrons. They're making over $100k per...

    According to Graphtreon, there are some crazy popular Patreon campaigns. The top creator has over 37,000 patrons and the runner-up creator has over 23,000 patrons. They're making over $100k per month from crowdfunding alone. Insane!

    So I'm curious: Do you guys support any Patreons yourself? Which ones and why?

    26 votes
  11. Comment on Moderators of Reddit, tell us about your experiences in fostering quality discussion and content (or failures to do so) in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    It wouldn't be 100% anonymous. Deimos and the other mods would know.

    Their actions would still be logged and visible for transparency, but the names would only be visible to Deimos and possibly other mods.

    It wouldn't be 100% anonymous. Deimos and the other mods would know.

    4 votes
  12. Comment on Moderators of Reddit, tell us about your experiences in fostering quality discussion and content (or failures to do so) in ~tildes

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    Would anonymous moderating solve this? Meaning, the identity of mods would be hidden from users. Their actions would still be logged and visible for transparency, but the names would only be...

    The biggest issue facing large communities in my experience is [...] the abuse mods face leading them to quit.

    Would anonymous moderating solve this? Meaning, the identity of mods would be hidden from users. Their actions would still be logged and visible for transparency, but the names would only be visible to Deimos and possibly other mods. Admittedly I haven't thought this through at all so I'm sure there are holes to poke...

    Edit: This might also cut down on power-seeking mods to some degree. There isn't much glory in anonymous modding, so it'd mainly draw users who simply want to help the site.

    9 votes
  13. Comment on <deleted topic> in ~tech

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    Growth-over-all is one avenue for capitalism, but I don't think it's fair to say it's inherent. That mainly applies when you're beholden to investors and/or shareholders. And again, I can agree...

    Growth-over-all is one avenue for capitalism, but I don't think it's fair to say it's inherent. That mainly applies when you're beholden to investors and/or shareholders. And again, I can agree that capitalism kind of promotes this behavior, but it's not inherent and doesn't have to manifest this way.

    The mom and pop shop who's content with their earnings is also valid capitalism. Also, there are service-oriented jobs where maintenance is their livelihood, such as repair (plumbers, computers, home renovation, etc).

    I think the real issue is the inability of many people to be content with what they have. It's a deep-seated human need to always want more, and capitalism simply allows humans to seek it out in the form of growth.

    7 votes
  14. Comment on How the everyday commute is changing who we are in ~life

    Tenlock
    Link
    I work from home and wouldn't have it any other way. Commuting is such a waste of time, and I can get so much done during lulls in my work day. Whereas traditional white collar workers would be...

    I work from home and wouldn't have it any other way. Commuting is such a waste of time, and I can get so much done during lulls in my work day. Whereas traditional white collar workers would be stuck at the office twiddling their thumbs, I can prepare food or clean the house or run some errands. It's not just a time saver but a money saver. For example, I can't imagine how often I'd eat out if I couldn't so easily make healthy homecooked meals, and that eat-out money adds up fast.

    The thing is, while commuting may have some benefits ("it actively changes us"), those same benefits can be found elsewhere. Listening to podcasts? I can do that when I run errands, cook, do chores, etc. Social interactions? I can get that at a local event, club, or church. Writing novels? Without a commute, I have just as much time---if not more---to pursue creative hobbies.

    It's one thing to find the silver lining in an unavoidable commute, but this article seems to romanticize it. Miss me with that.

    3 votes
  15. Comment on Valve launches Steam.tv, a possible competitor to Twitch in ~games

    Tenlock
    Link
    I don't game as much anymore but I'm hopeful. Twitch has seriously gone down the drain and needs some real competition to keep it in check. I'm sad that Beam and Hitbox never quite took off, and...

    I don't game as much anymore but I'm hopeful. Twitch has seriously gone down the drain and needs some real competition to keep it in check. I'm sad that Beam and Hitbox never quite took off, and YouTube Gaming is a pain to use.

    2 votes
  16. Comment on Do you sometimes get upset about Reddit's petty downvoting? in ~talk

    Tenlock
    Link
    Took a while to get used to a lack of downvotes, and I think it's.... okay. Let's just say I'm looking forward to whatever other features Deimos and the devs are cooking up. The only other thing...

    Took a while to get used to a lack of downvotes, and I think it's.... okay. Let's just say I'm looking forward to whatever other features Deimos and the devs are cooking up.

    The only other thing I'd say is, so far from what I've seen, I don't think Tildes is that much less hostile or that much more productive for discussion than Reddit. We might not have downvote brigades here, but there's definitely some ugliness in the shadows when controversial topics appear.

    28 votes
  17. Comment on Why So Many Americans Don't Want Social Justice and Don't Trust Scientists in ~science

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    I guess "bad faith" is going to be the new "troll" here. Seems we're done having an actual discussion, so I'll just leave this here: It's possible to accept the possibility of real differences...

    I guess "bad faith" is going to be the new "troll" here.

    Seems we're done having an actual discussion, so I'll just leave this here:

    It's possible to accept the possibility of real differences between ethnicities without compromising on dignity and humanity for all. The only way it'd be incompatible is if you believe IQ and intellect is the truest and only measure of a person, which says more about you than anything really.

    3 votes
  18. Comment on Why So Many Americans Don't Want Social Justice and Don't Trust Scientists in ~science

    Tenlock
    (edited )
    Link Parent
    You're free to do that, but it's intellectually lazy and lacks integrity. Funny how a lot of the meta Tildes threads seem to champion the idea of "Be the change you want to see here! If you don't...

    You're free to do that, but it's intellectually lazy and lacks integrity.

    Funny how a lot of the meta Tildes threads seem to champion the idea of "Be the change you want to see here! If you don't want this place to be an echo chamber, submit different content!" But when it happens...

    Edit: That's ad hominem, by the way.

    1 vote
  19. Comment on Why So Many Americans Don't Want Social Justice and Don't Trust Scientists in ~science

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    This guy's background according to Wikipedia: Serious question: On what grounds are you so quickly dismissing this guy's research and experience? Do you cherry pick which experts you think are...

    This guy's background according to Wikipedia:

    He earned a BA in philosophy from Yale University in 1985, and a PhD in psychology from the University of Pennsylvania in 1992. He then studied cultural psychology at the University of Chicago as a post-doctoral fellow. His supervisors were Jonathan Baron and Alan Fiske (at the University of Pennsylvania) and cultural anthropologist Richard Shweder (University of Chicago). During his post-doctoral appointment, Haidt won a Fulbright fellowship to fund three months of research on morality in Orissa, India. In 1995, Haidt was hired as an assistant professor at the University of Virginia, where he worked until 2011, winning four awards for teaching, including a statewide award conferred by the Governor of Virginia.[7]

    Serious question: On what grounds are you so quickly dismissing this guy's research and experience? Do you cherry pick which experts you think are credible by how well they adhere to your beliefs?

    3 votes
  20. Comment on Why So Many Americans Don't Want Social Justice and Don't Trust Scientists in ~science

    Tenlock
    Link Parent
    Did you even try to look past the title? The lecture is given by a centrist (formerly leftist) with a respectable social psychology background, to an audience that's 90%+ liberals. I don't think...

    Did you even try to look past the title? The lecture is given by a centrist (formerly leftist) with a respectable social psychology background, to an audience that's 90%+ liberals. I don't think it's worth brushing aside so quickly.

    2 votes